An Independent Scotland?

Ah yes, all three of them (four if the terrorists are willing to wait until the other one can get back from the Falklands).
 
And that's assuming they're all at sea and in the area, not off chasing some fishing boat round the atlantic to check it's nets.
 
Andrew Neil gets his *** handed to him on the NHS.

 
Apologies for posting yet another video but this is interesting. Max Kaiser interviewing Dominic Frisby, says iScotland would be daft to go for CU, would do far better going it alone with Scots currency. Even going for an electronic currency like bitcoin, something which Iceland is doing with Auroracoin (not sure if it's official or not mind).

 
If you want to look at what your future Navy will look like look at Ireland as an example or even Iceland . You could have a few of the old River Class patrol boats. (We will keep the new ones being built) That should do the job. There's no
Point in you having any Frigates, Destroyers or Aircraft Carriers a) there is no strategic need for you to have them.
 
Agreeing with George Monbiot - a genuinely new experience for me....!

Imagine the question posed the other way round. An independent nation is asked to decide whether to surrender its sovereignty to a larger union. It would be allowed a measure of autonomy, but key aspects of its governance would be handed to another nation. It would be used as a military base by the dominant power and yoked to an economy over which it had no control.

It would have to be bloody desperate. Only a nation in which the institutions of governance had collapsed, which had been ruined economically, which was threatened by invasion or civil war or famine might contemplate this drastic step. Most nations faced even with such catastrophes choose to retain their independence – in fact, will fight to preserve it – rather than surrender to a dominant foreign power.

So what would you say about a country that sacrificed its sovereignty without collapse or compulsion; that had no obvious enemies, a basically sound economy and a broadly functional democracy, yet chose to swap it for remote governance by the hereditary elite of another nation,beholden to a corrupt financial centre?

What would you say about a country that exchanged an economy based on enterprise and distribution for one based on speculation and rent? That chose obeisance to a government that spies on its own citizens, uses the planet as its dustbin, governs on behalf of a transnational elite that owes loyalty to no nation, cedes public services to corporations, forces terminally ill people to work and can’t be trusted with a box of fireworks, let alone a fleet of nuclear submarines? You would conclude that it had lost its senses.
​
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/02/scots-independence-england-scotland
 
The Darien Scheme failed and left Scotland fairly incapable of going solo - The act of Union was welcome even if Scotland were the 'junior partner'
 
It is, I’d venture, more akin to having your neighbour beat you with a baseball bat in order to gain access to your home, only to chastise you and claim you should be grateful for the first-aid they administered after they’d got your keys.

Scotland was not bankrupt and could have continued on as an independent nation.​

Of course this was hundreds of years ago, and history is written by the winners. Neither side should be claiming Darien as a reason for anything, as the world is utterly different now (even if the motives behind the scheming are not)
http://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-essay-skintland-britnat-mythology-and-the-darien-scheme/
 
"Members of the RMT in Scotland voted in favour of independence by a margin of 1,051 to 968"

I wonder if that's a sign of what the actual referendum result might be? yes win by about 5%
 
Moadib said:
Imagine the question posed the other way round. An independent nation is asked to decide whether to surrender its sovereignty to a larger union. It would be allowed a measure of autonomy, but key aspects of its governance would be handed to another nation. It would be used as a military base by the dominant power and yoked to an economy over which it had no control.
​
Click to expand...
​

Sounds a bit like the EU :p
 
dinners said:
The Darien Scheme failed and left Scotland fairly incapable of going solo - The act of Union was welcomed by riots on the streets of Scotland the entire population having been screwed over by 104 men for the sake of their own personal fortunes
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Fixed that for you :)

Old history though and has no place in this debate.
 
Steep said:
"Members of the RMT in Scotland voted in favour of independence by a margin of 1,051 to 968"

I wonder if that's a sign of what the actual referendum result might be? yes win by about 5%
Click to expand...

Don't be ridiculous the RMT in Scotland represents less than 0.1% of the Scottish Population.
 
Steep said:
"Members of the RMT in Scotland voted in favour of independence by a margin of 1,051 to 968"

I wonder if that's a sign of what the actual referendum result might be? yes win by about 5%
Click to expand...

Typical union ballot. About 2,300 voted. RMT has over 10,000 members in Scotland. Back to the old thing with stats - only 10% voted yes.
 
I do wonder if The Scottish powers that be actually have the financial resources to make Scotland independant. Have they taken into consideration having to manage health car- unemployment -education- Public transport- policing- income tax collection- politicians to name but a few that England at the moment helps pay for. Also what currency are they going to adopt? we in England don't think it right they should carry on using our currency but have their own. Ok Scotland votes for independence! they will have to try and join the EEC persumably and that means pet passports to go into Scotland same as Southern Ireland, border controls on all road into and out of . Seems to me that if Scotland does go Independant they are on a very rocky path and come to that why can't we in England have a say as well if we want Scotland to decide to go for it? Still for us less members of Parliament as no Scottish members will be able to sit to vote on English matters and English MP's will have more time to spend on our own affairs which should mean cutting down our own political costs.

Alex Salmon is trying to make a name for himself to go down in history and to me seems blind on the damage he is going to cause the Scottish people. Maybe I am wrong time will tell
 
realspeed said:
that England at the moment helps pay for.
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That's your problem right there, poor research and / or listening to Richard Madely on tv.
 
Steep said:

That's your problem right there, poor research and / or listening to Richard Madely on tv.
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The thing is we *May* get a different perspective down here than up here.

And there are always 2 sides to any debate
;)
 
Bernie174 said:
No there isn't. Alex is always right. Alex can do no wrong. Alex says so, ergo it must be fact.
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He's certainly very passionate about what "he does"
You can't fault him for that.

But of course we all know there is the truth, and the truth as politicians see it.
"Spin" I believe its called.
And no matter what side of the boarder, or party, they come from..............
Yes I will tar them with the same brush.
 
Cobra said:
The thing is we *May* get a different perspective down here than up here.

And there are always 2 sides to any debate
;)
Click to expand...

True and it's quite obvious that doon sooth gets a different slant from both the media and the politicians.
 
Cobra said:
He's certainly very passionate about what "he does"
You can't fault him for that.

But of course we all know there is the truth, and the truth as politicians see it.
"Spin" I believe its called.
And no matter what side of the boarder, or party, they come from..............
Yes I will tar them with the same brush.
Click to expand...

Hmm, it's also well documented that Adolf Hitler was very passionate about the new Germany when he started his political career. Sometimes, passion, bias and the inability to listen to others can be your downfall.
 
Steep said:
True and it's quite obvious that doon sooth gets a different slant from both the media and the politicians.
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As I said before, it certainly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Blank_Canvas said:
Hmm, it's also well documented that Adolf Hitler was very passionate about the new Germany when he started his political career. Sometimes, passion, bias and the inability to listen to others can be your downfall.
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I agree.
I nearly mentioned that too, but didn't want to invoke "Godwins law" ;)
 
Cobra said:
As I said before, it certainly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.


I agree.
I nearly mentioned that too, but didn't want to invoke "Godwins law" ;)
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It's ok as long as we invoke 'the Chatham House rule'
 
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Cobra said:
I agree.
I nearly mentioned that too, but didn't want to invoke "Godwins law" ;)
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When were the SNP formed? Oh yes, about the same time as that "other" nationalist party began assassinating people...
 
gman said:
When were the SNP formed? Oh yes, about the same time as that "other" nationalist party began assassinating people...
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There is a well documented theory that when Hitlers Deputy, Rudolf Hess parachuted into Scotland on the Duke of Hamilton's estate in 1941 he was there to negotiate with the SNP and strike a peace deal with Churchill. Some cynics would say that he was there to stake a claim for Leadership of the SNP but I think perhaps that is taking it to far.
 
Lol i was only joking about to be honest.

I was wondering if the Scottish NHS will charge foreigners for using it if independent? Because if ours is free and England goes private and we join the EU then it's obvious what will happen.
 
Also regarding threats to Scotland being only terrorists, well that's only at the moment. Nobody knows what the threat could be in ten years time so we should still be willing to adapt if necessary and if that means nukes then so be it. Besides, look at what's happening in India now and who knows how far that could develop? India has nukes remember as does Pakistan.
 
Thank goodness, that all bar the shouting, one way or the other, all this bickering, rhetoric, and sniping will soon be over. Or will it?

The end result will be a lot of happy people, and a lot unhappy people, with little difference in numbers between them.

A nation divided (Scotland that is). I just hope that it doesn't turn neighbour against neighbour, Clan against Clan, and that the people of Scotland can continue to live in harmony with each other.

Its sad to see any nation divided, as history has shown us, and still continues to do so today, it always ends in conflict. :(

Dave
 
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ST4 said:
iScotland should have Nukes and a proper military. Saying as its such a bountiful nation full of oil it's a likely target for invasion.
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Like Iraq? They had neither proper military or nukes, and the only folks that invaded them was USA and UK
 
DaveS2 said:
Thank goodness, that all bar the shouting, one way or the other, all this bickering, rhetoric, and sniping will soon be over. Or will it?

The end result will be a lot of happy people, and a lot unhappy people, with little difference in numbers between them.

A nation divided (Scotland that is). I just hope that it doesn't turn neighbour against neighbour, Clan against Clan, and that the people of Scotland can continue to live in harmony with each other.

Its sad to see any nation divided, as history has shown us, and still continues to do so today, it always ends in conflict. :(

Dave
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You've got to feel for n.e.England though, at least we have a chance but they are stuck with being neglected by Westminster.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Hmm, it's also well documented that Adolf Hitler was very passionate about the new Germany when he started his political career. Sometimes, passion, bias and the inability to listen to others can be your downfall.
Click to expand...
Why do you insist on bringing everything to do with SNP/yes back to Adolf hitler and the war?
 
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