An Independent Scotland?

[Steep]

The story has been posted in a number of places not just Newsnet I chose the Newsnet link as it seemed to offer the most complete and easily accessible story. I reported nothing 'as fact' I quite clearly said "I've been reading", you can go back and check.

The story may turn out to be horlicks or it may not, sometimes stuff that comes across as paranoid conspiracy theory actually does have basis in fact but as I said time will tell here.

 

[Matt]

would a very big oil field make Yes vote more appealing?

 

[Dave *]

I made and make no claims as to it's accuracy

Well, to be honest, you did.

I've been reading that the Clair field west of Shetland has turned out to be three times bigger than previously thought, making it the biggest oil field in the world!

You didn't say "a bloke down the pub said" or "rumours" or "possibly" or "might be", you made a direct statement that it has...

 

[dod]

would a very big oil field make Yes vote more appealing?

for me, no.

 

[Steep]

for me, no.

I think it would help allay some folks fears about the cost of indy certainly and that can only be good.

 

[Steep]

Well, to be honest, you did.



You didn't say "a bloke down the pub said" or "rumours" or "possibly" or "might be", you made a direct statement that it has...

If you'd stop selectively quoting or selectively reading it's obvious that I didn't.

 

[H2O]

If you'd stop selectively quoting or selectively reading it's obvious that I didn't.

I'm with Dave here. Your initial post reads as if the report has confirmed evidence that Clair field is now the biggest oil field in the world.


this is the whole post,

Interesting news on the oil front today, I've been reading that the Clair field west of Shetland has turned out to be three times bigger than previously thought, making it the biggest oil field in the world!

Where is the lack of certainty in that post?

 

[Steep]

would a very big oil field make Yes vote more appealing?

As I said to dod above it possibly would for some, one of the things the unionist camp have been using to make indy sound bad is the oil running out. As the article says David Cameron made a short unannounced visit to Shetland on the pretext of speaking to the people there but didn't meet many if any Shetlanders. The theory being that his true purpose was to meet with oil bosses.

 

[Steep]

I'm with Dave here. Your initial post reads as if the report has confirmed evidence that Clair field is now the biggest oil field in the world.


this is the whole post,


Where is the lack of certainty in that post?

The claims above are that I have been making definite statements when quite clearly I say "I've been reading that", i.e. something I've read.

 

[Matt]

so the unnamed worker could have been A Salmond then...

it doesnt bother me either way as i couldnt be further away from the excitement being all the way down here in france, but still..its interesting...

 

[H2O]

The claims above are that I have been making definite statements when quite clearly I say "I've been reading that", i.e. something I've read.

Yes, unless you're the one doing the research it's always going to be second hand information (read/ heard). That's not the important part.

The important part is the source/ evidence. You clearly said "the Clair field west of Shetland has turned out to be". That's pretty definitive and as it should be safe to assume you aren't quoting works of fiction it should be reasonable to assume you have a source that you trust that's sure that statement is true. Non of which seems to be the case.

 

[Steep]

Seriously, I think if I said "black" you'd twist it to mean some shade of grey.

 

[Steep]

Don't forget, those who can receive it, the 'big debate' is on tonight, STV.

 

[Dave *]

If you'd stop selectively quoting or selectively reading it's obvious that I didn't.

Where's the selective quote, I quoted the entire sentence you wrote?

It's one of the biggest problems of this whole Yes/No issue, both sides seem to be happy to make up crap to suit their agenda, and IMO, the Yes camp seem to be doing it with almost every utterance. Every single statement is twisted and baseless, and when someone questions what is being said, they are accused of selectively quoting or not understanding (or being patronising).

 

[Tigger.ufo]

As I said to dod above it possibly would for some, one of the things the unionist camp have been using to make indy sound bad is the oil running out. As the article says David Cameron made a short unannounced visit to Shetland on the pretext of speaking to the people there but didn't meet many if any Shetlanders. The theory being that his true purpose was to meet with oil bosses.

I suppose this isn't your theory either?

 

[bindex]

Don't forget, those who can receive it, the 'big debate' is on tonight, STV.

Evidently you can watch even if you're not in Scotland via STV Player and you just need you're email address to register, and you can tick (or un-tick) a box so you're not inundated with ads afterwards. The link is HERE

 

[Steep]

Where's the selective quote, I quoted the entire sentence you wrote?

Well yes that's true but you ignored the important bit, highlighting only a part of the sentence 'out of context' and then claimed that it was a direct statement by myself when I had been quite clear it didn't come from me.

 

[dod]

Well yes that's true but you ignored the important bit, highlighting only a part of the sentence 'out of context' and then claimed that it was a direct statement by myself when I had been quite clear it didn't come from me.

It's that it was claimed to be a fact that people are questioning. It did very much come across as if you were presenting it as a fact on behalf of someone else, not that you actually made the initial statement.

 

[Steep]

I have no problem with anyone picking up the author/s on that dod. I suspect it will turn out to be true in so much as lots more oil has been discovered and quite possibly true as to official news of the find being held back till after September. How much and how big the new field really is I can't say.

 

[andy0306]

Don't forget, those who can receive it, the 'big debate' is on tonight, STV.

It's a shame STV's player won't work (for me anyway), I'd like to have seen this.

 

[Tringa]

Same here Andy. I too wanted to watch this but STV player isn't working now, says "Segment loading security violation. Video playback not possible". Though it was working at about 7:58pm.

Dave

 

[Dave *]

Same here Andy. I too wanted to watch this but STV player isn't working now, says "Segment loading security violation. Video playback not possible". Though it was working at about 7:58pm.

Dave

I've just checked it, and it's working for me, on iPad Safari using the link above.

 

[bindex]

Same here Andy. I too wanted to watch this but STV player isn't working now, says "Segment loading security violation. Video playback not possible". Though it was working at about 7:58pm.

Dave

That's exactly what I'm getting. It was working fine then just dumped me off, any attempt to log back in seem to fail and I also get the same message.

 

[andy0306]

Doesn't bode well for independence if they can't even get their TV/internet service to work

 

[dinners]

Salmond coming over as slimy as ever.

 

[Steep]

Same here Andy. I too wanted to watch this but STV player isn't working now, says "Segment loading security violation. Video playback not possible". Though it was working at about 7:58pm.

Dave

STV said sorry the live player fell over due to massive demand, debate will be available all week on their playback service.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Well having watched the debate. There is no plan B. Alex Salmond came over as an overbearing bully and has lost even more credibility. More harm done than good. On the other hand Alister Darling was eloquent, made sense and made a few of the 'Yes non-conformists" think twice.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Doesn't bode well for independence if they can't even get their TV/internet service to work

Don't be fooled by that the censorship has started lol

 

[dinners]

A few awkward moments for AS here

 

[Cowleystjames]

I would've liked a vote as an Englishman, and my vote would be to let them have their Independence so we can keep more money south of the border instead of supporting King Salmond and his faltering country.

 

[Dave *]

A few awkward moments here

Salmons seems more and more idiotic every time I see him. He tried to bluff and bluster and failed pretty badly there.

President "no plan B" Salmond...

 

[Steep]

Cowleystjames...tut..tut

Take some time out of your life and educate yourself rather than propagating the same old falsehoods again. Watch this video, it's a chap called Ivan Mckee of Business for Scotland (a pro indy group) explaining in simple terms what Scotland makes, pays, gets back and a bunch of other stuff. You'll probably be surprised.

 

[Tringa]

Managed to get on to STV player about 8:40 last night. Interesting debate; can't think Alex Salmond can be very pleased. Clearly an independent Scotland can continue to use the pound but I can't understand why the Yes campaign thinks an independent Scotland it will have any influence over the monetary policy affecting the pound as an independent country.

Dave

 

[StewartR]

This summed it up for me.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

This summed it up for me.

Surely the fact that Scotland wants to go it alone shows "ambition"?

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Managed to get on to STV player about 8:40 last night. Interesting debate; can't think Alex Salmond can be very pleased. Clearly an independent Scotland can continue to use the pound but I can't understand why the Yes campaign thinks an independent Scotland it will have any influence over the monetary policy affecting the pound as an independent country.

Dave

So your basically saying that Scotland brings nothing to the table?
Do you think the pound will be as strong without a monetary union? I would doubt it, therefore Scotland can, as an independent country, have influence in a monetary union.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Salmons seems more and more idiotic every time I see him. He tried to bluff and bluster and failed pretty badly there.

President "no plan B" Salmond...

"Bluff & bluster"? That's original.
If plan A is the best option, and it's feasible for both countries, and it's highly likely that it will happen, why concern ourselves with plan B at this stage? IF, and it's a big IF, a monetary union is definitely not going to happen for whatever reason, then the Scottish Government would negotiate an alternative.

I have to say though, that I was a wee bit disappointed with last nights debate, from both candidates. Alex Salmond did himself no favours though with his ridiculous talk about aliens and driving on the right side of the road.

 

[Steep]

Neither one of them shone last night, Darling was Mr ShoutyShouty, Salmond didn't shout enough, you could see him almost lose the rag a couple of times and I think it might have been good for him to let go at least once. That said I watched it from a very Yes stand point, others here will have done the opposite and our opinions are never going to change. Since it was aimed at undecided voters though it does appear A.S. did the job well to some extent. ICM poll after the debate showed 43% rise to 47% for Yes, 57% fall to 53% No.

 

[Steep]

"Bluff & bluster"? That's original.
If plan A is the best option, and it's feasible for both countries, and it's highly likely that it will happen, why concern ourselves with plan B at this stage? IF, and it's a big IF, a monetary union is definitely not going to happen for whatever reason, then the Scottish Government would negotiate an alternative.

I have to say though, that I was a wee bit disappointed with last nights debate, from both candidates. Alex Salmond did himself no favours though with his ridiculous talk about aliens and driving on the right side of the road.

His cracks about aliens and right side driving only worked if you knew the context (things that have been thrown at Yes by various No campers) which few of the audience will have done.

About Currency Union, you're right, there doesn't need to be a plan B if plan A is a good one, what A.S. didn't get over well last night was why plan B isn't needed.
I think Bernard Ponsonby did a good job of hectoring both of them to try and liven it up mind you.

 

[StewartR]

Re the whole 'Plan B' thing: I thought it was the No camp that didn't have a Plan B. Surely that's been their justification for refusing to discuss some of the practicalities: it isn't going to happen (they say), therefore there's no point discussing it.