An Independent Scotland?

Thinking of an episode of Rab C Nesbit the sons arrange to be taken into care it does not go well, they are glad being back in the family home having chips I have humour never even needed sub titles

Harry Enfield takes pops at Liverpool and Manchester etc did you need sub titles for that, comedy is just that UK sells a fair bit of comedy many nations of the world enjoy it

Why do you think Trident will be all that's available I call it progress
 
Good one need 2 sleep now Steep play some more over the next 4 months

Watch out for getting locked in the naughty room with all the other bad behaved lads Mary pet will be cross might stick the knife in and get medical treatment before you in the hospital with that badly cut finger

(Own the box set)
 
Steep said:
STV news tonight, Scotland is the most highly educated country in Europe, the benefits of an independent education system :)
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Steep said:
Here's a link to the article Stewart I think you'll need to copy and paste it.
news.stv.tv/scotland/278036-scotland-most-highly-educated-country-in-europe-ons-report-shows/
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Hmmm. Unfortunately this is one of those instances where you can use the statistics to prove anything you want. On the one hand Scotland has the highest proportion of people who have been educated to "tertiary" level, which is where the headline came from. On the other hand, the same study shows that Scotland has more people with no qualifications whatsoever than England has, which isn't such a good headline, especially to a Scottish audience. I suspect the truth, if there is such a thing when we're talking about comparative educational attainments, is much more nuanced.

But it does remind me of a wonderful joke I heard many years ago. I was at a conference where the keynote speaker was Tom Winsor, who at the time was the Rail Regulator, and who is from Dundee. The person who introduced him was also a Scot, and he observed that whenever a Scot chooses to go and live in England, the average intelligence of both countries increases.....
 
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border_all said:
NATO membership is open to “any other European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area.”

Thought we agreed at first you would not be in the EU so how would you be in NATO?
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Membership of the EU is not what defines a European state (much as the EU would love to make it so)
 
gman said:
As for Salmond, one thing he does want which I agree with is compulsory voting. At least that way we can only blame ourselves for any errors.
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Could not disagree with that concept more. Making voting compulsory is anti-freedom, and is anti-logic.

In terms of freedom, you are saying the state is sovereign over you - you are not allowed to choose your own action, and I am utterly against that. In terms of logic, if you are presented with three ridiculous choices, why should you be compelled to vote for one? It's like asking to vote for whether you want to lose an arm or a leg - you'd of course not participate in such a vote. Not voting is vital - sends a message of dissatisfaction to politicians (as indeed we have just now).
 
gman said:
YOU HAVE TO PLAN FOR THE WORST.
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Do you?

I think you have to plan for what is likely, with some margins, but anyone, any business, or any country actively planning for the worst will be insolvent in no time.

Being independent will in itself change Scotland's risk profile (perhaps provided Tony and Gordon are out of the country).
 
Moadib said:
Could not disagree with that concept more. Making voting compulsory is anti-freedom, and is anti-logic.

In terms of freedom, you are saying the state is sovereign over you - you are not allowed to choose your own action, and I am utterly against that. In terms of logic, if you are presented with three ridiculous choices, why should you be compelled to vote for one? It's like asking to vote for whether you want to lose an arm or a leg - you'd of course not participate in such a vote. Not voting is vital - sends a message of dissatisfaction to politicians (as indeed we have just now).
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So, go along and spoil your paper by writing "none of the above" across it.

......which is showing that you have bothered to turn up and vote, rather than the "can't be arsed" brigade.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
So, go along and spoil your paper by writing "none of the above" across it.

......which is showing that you have bothered to turn up and vote, rather than the "can't be arsed" brigade.
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Why does the state have the power to compel me to waste my time spoiling a paper, advising several parties that they are useless?

I can accept that you may consider yourself subordinate to the state in terms of dominion over your person, but others don't, nor does it mean it's necessarily a good idea.
 
Moadib said:
Why does the state have the power to compel me to waste my time spoiling a paper, advising several parties that they are useless?

I can accept that you may consider yourself subordinate to the state in terms of dominion over your person, but others don't, nor does it mean it's necessarily a good idea.
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Please don't apply your theories to me. Nowhere have I said that I am advocating forcing people to vote.

I choose to go and spoil my paper, which conveys my dissatisfaction to all parties in a far better way than by not voting at all, whereas your "protest" not voting, is lost in the masses of "can't be arsed".
 
Moadib said:
It's like asking to vote for whether you want to lose an arm or a leg - you'd of course not participate in such a vote.
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What a ridiculous comparison.

If you think for a minute that you are really free from the state then you are very deluded. But we certainly have more freedom than others. You are clearly one of these people that have chip on your shoulder with regard to authority and out comes this word "subordinate" that I hear from pro independence people all the time.

What a wake up call you will get if the nationalists get full power.
 
Moadib said:
Why does the state have the power to compel me to waste my time spoiling a paper, advising several parties that they are useless?

I can accept that you may consider yourself subordinate to the state in terms of dominion over your person, but others don't, nor does it mean it's necessarily a good idea.
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Totally agree. If i don't want to vote why should I? As I live out in the sticks there is normally only the big few parties running. Don't like either. Why vote fore something I don't like?
 
Moadib said:
Do you?

I think you have to plan for what is likely, with some margins, but anyone, any business, or any country actively planning for the worst will be insolvent in no time.

Being independent will in itself change Scotland's risk profile (perhaps provided Tony and Gordon are out of the country).
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We are not talking about your local newsagent business. When you have over 5 million livelyhoods at stake you plan for the worst. Period. Anything less is incompetence and and total negligence.

I agree about Brown and Blair. The latter being an absolutely vile person.
 
I think re compulsory voting that the way to do it is "use it or lose it" i.e. if you don't vote you don't get a vote next time unless you apply. It would be easy enough to add a 'none of the above' option to ballot papers.
Voting is one of the most important things any citizen can do, it means that person is engaged in the society they are a part of.
 
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cambsno said:
Totally agree. If i don't want to vote why should I? As I live out in the sticks there is normally only the big few parties running. Don't like either. Why vote fore something I don't like?
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It's already been explained.
 
gman said:
What a ridiculous comparison.

If you think for a minute that you are really free from the state then you are very deluded. But we certainly have more freedom than others. You are clearly one of these people that have chip on your shoulder with regard to authority and out comes this word "subordinate" that I hear from pro independence people all the time.

What a wake up call you will get if the nationalists get full power.
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There's no saying the nationalists will be in power in an independent Scotland.
 
Moadib said:
Membership of the EU is not what defines a European state (much as the EU would love to make it so)
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However living within Europe does not mean auto enrolment, or that you would not be expected to have some form of defending yourself the fact you can grow food and supply energy does not in my opinion mean NATO will rush to help you in attacks like Samoa undertake should they fancy your rigs

Do you also subscribe to trusting luck with defence and expecting other nations to supply hard force when needed.
 
Samoa?? Well at least you've moved on from China.
 
Steep said:
I think re compulsory voting that the way to do it is "use it or lose it" i.e. if you don't vote you don't get a vote next time unless you apply. It would be easy enough to add a 'none of the above' option to ballot papers.
Voting is one of the most important things any citizen can do, it means that person is engaged in the society they are a part of.
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So why can't I choose not to go? What happened to individual choice? Important, not really... Where I live a conservative is nailed on, so if I want him and don't vote I know he will win, if I wanted to vote labour or lib dem it's a wasted vote as they won't.
 
Ok you Yes campaigners please answer me a question

Let's say I live in Scotland and I really wish for Scotland to be independent but I can not and will not agree with the No Nuclear line of the yes campaign how do I vote?

It seems that for this voter his only option would be to move from Scotland is that what you want.

For the record I don't want an attack nuclear weapon but I do like being able to defend the islands

The other side is if 15 million English folk who don't want nuclear wish to live in Scotland will you make accommodation for them.

With a nick name Border you might guess I have terriers off out with them now enjoy your day
 
cambsno said:
So why can't I choose not to go? What happened to individual choice? Important, not really... Where I live a conservative is nailed on, so if I want him and don't vote I know he will win, if I wanted to vote labour or lib dem it's a wasted vote as they won't.
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That's a perfect example of the failings of the first past the post voting system, Scotland uses PR where your vote counts in percentage terms.
 
border_all said:
Ok you Yes campaigners please answer me a question

Let's say I live in Scotland and I really wish for Scotland to be independent but I can not and will not agree with the No Nuclear line of the yes campaign how do I vote?

It seems that for this voter his only option would be to move from Scotland is that what you want.

For the record I don't want an attack nuclear weapon but I do like being able to defend the islands

The other side is if 15 million English folk who don't want nuclear wish to live in Scotland will you make accommodation for them.

With a nick name Border you might guess I have terriers off out with them now enjoy your day
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That's a perfect example of the dilemma we have, we live in the UK but keep being lumbered with Tory governments we don't want.
 
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Steep said:
That's a perfect example of the dilemma we have, we live in the UK but keep being lumbered with Tory governments we don't want.
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Aren't the conservatives the only party that has ever got an absolute majority in a general election in Scotland?
 
Not in my considerable lifetime.
 
Steep said:
That's a perfect example of the dilemma we have, we live in the UK but keep being lumbered with Tory governments we don't want.
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So what, there are people in rUK that don't vote tory and get them, perhaps they should leave in a hissy fit because they didn't get the government they voted for.The republic of Doncaster....LOL
 
We all have to live by the rules that governments have put in place, so it's important that the government is a fair representation of what the people want. Lack of votes can be attributed to many factors at the moment and not just a dislike towards any of the current parties. Some people couldn't make it, some people didn't know etc.

But if you have to show up and vote, then spoiling your paper sends a clear and definitive message that you don't like any of the current parties, this may encourage new parties to form which may be to your liking.

At the moment though, I don't think the voting system represents a clear enough representation.
 
We all have to live by the rules that governments have put in place, so it's important that the government is a fair representation of what the people want. Lack of votes can be attributed to many factors at the moment and not just a dislike towards any of the current parties. Some people couldn't make it, some people didn't know etc.

But if you have to show up and vote, then spoiling your paper sends a clear and definitive message that you don't like any of the current parties, this may encourage new parties to form which may be to your liking.

At the moment though, I don't think the voting system represents a clear enough representation.
 
Steep said:
Appearing nightly at the Fringe :)
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Featuring Nicola "the head butting" Sturgeon and your special guest Alex "I will be king no matter what" Salmond hehe
 
HuntingMartians said:
Aren't the conservatives the only party that has ever got an absolute majority in a general election in Scotland?
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1955 majority of votes and majority of seats. Don't know if it was an absolute majority though.
 
Gaz J said:
1955 majority of votes and majority of seats. Don't know if it was an absolute majority though.
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They won 36 seats and just received over 50% of the vote 50.something, cant remember off the top of my head

Edit : I think labour came close to 50% a couple of times but fell just short ie 49.5% or there abouts
 
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cambsno said:
So why can't I choose not to go? What happened to individual choice? Important, not really... Where I live a conservative is nailed on, so if I want him and don't vote I know he will win, if I wanted to vote labour or lib dem it's a wasted vote as they won't.
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If you don't vote it'll never change....& it can, where I am was nailed in conservative, until 1997 when it became lib dem instead
 
gman said:
But if you have to show up and vote, then spoiling your paper sends a clear and definitive message that you don't like any of the current parties, this may encourage new parties to form which may be to your liking.
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That's intriguing. I know there are arguments both for and against compulsory voting, but this one appeals to me.
 
Good news guys stopping watching the thread now, I wish all the folk of Scotland well regardless of which way the vote goes.

For me the arguments seem less than conclusive and the only thing is you want shot of London parliament and being sick of who was elected I have grave concerns about how Alex will do if he is your first minister of an independent Scotland.

I fear that once Alex has his yes vote he will suddenly not like the terms the EU offer not in the benefit of the Scottish people will be said certainly more MEPs won't help you gain traction with the EU

I certainly think our union culture has more in common than the culture of the EU and if I was a rich man I would bet you will not be better of financially but I would probably be dead before proof positive came about.

We have found a lot in common I.e dislike of Tony Blaire Gordon Brown etc we like camera and comedy with or without sub title maybe some would say London is too powerful though good luck those who live away from Edinburgh or Glasgow.

I have loved travelling in Scotland, Lochgilphead, great glen way, cape wrath, ranoch moor, Cairngorms, SW Scotland, I have cycled walked climbed been waist deep in a bog and in all visits walks and cycle rides only found one Scot who was not very nice probably on drugs.

I will miss visiting if you go Yes but least I enjoyed my time in the Scots company and country, so as I say good luck keep taking great images in the future as it may be the only way I will see the scenery

Allan
 
StewartR said:
That's intriguing. I know there are arguments both for and against compulsory voting, but this one appeals to me.
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I don't vote and that's the choice I make because I am free to do it. I don't want to waste my time travelling to a polling station to spoil my paper or to do it by post even.

Not voting is my protest.
 
Gaz J said:
I don't vote and that's the choice I make because I am free to do it. I don't want to waste my time travelling to a polling station to spoil my paper or to do it by post even.

Not voting is my protest.
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For all anyone knows you just couldn't be bothered and to me it sounds like just that. Dressing it up as a protest doesn't work because it's not definitively clear as being such.

This is becoming interesting. No wonder our Governments get away with so much! Lol
 
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