Am I over cooking this? Please help...

xrayhead

xrayhead

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Hi All, I’ve been looking at studio lighting for around a year now and recently decided to go ahead and purchase a set along with a light meter. So far I have been using a cheap set of continuous lights from ebay for stills and a lastolight ezybox setup with pocket wizards for a little portrait work. I also have a couple of backdrops and a backdrop support.

I’ve mainly been looking at Elinchrom lighting and was thinking of purchasing a set of BRXi compact flash units, how ever I don’t know if I am thinking way above my requirements. I did look at the 250/250 but the 500/500 is less than £100 so what’s the point of the 250’s? Also is there that much difference in the BRXi and the D-lite it starters as the price of them is considerably lower. One thing I really like the look of with the Elinchrom lighting is the Skyports :)

I will be using the lights for mainly newborn baby, toddler and portrait work and maybe looking into a portable inverter latter down the line to do some location stuff (buts that’s not 100%).

Any help would be much appreciated indeed.

Xray

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Sorry I should have mentioned the Camera and lens setup I have at present and will be using for the studio work.

Canon EOS 7D
Canon EF 24 mm-70 mm F/2.8
Canon EF 70-200 mm F/2.8
Canon EF 35 mm f/1.4
Canon 580 EX II
 
Something to think about, I have skyports, the antenna is very flimsy and easily snaps off. The receiver is quick to run low on power too, leaving you having to plug the charger in during the shoot.
The lights themselves have a good reputation.
 
Yes, you will be seriously over-cooking it. If you want to go with Elinchrom, take a look at the D-Lites.

For the type of work you've described, you won't want 500Ws of power. No only will you not need it, you'll have a real problem if you want to shoot with wide lens apertures because you won't be able to turn the power down far enough. This will leave you with having to fit a ND filter over your lens, which will almost certainly affect the ability of your camera to autofocus.

Please see this article on the Lencarta Lighting blog. Unfortunately it lost its pictures when the site moved to a new server, but it should still be helpful.
 
LOL crossed post with Garry :D

Advantage of the BX-250Ri over the 500 is it turns down one stop lower (and given your application, you will likely need that more often that full power) and the flash duration is shorter. Shorter than average durations is a feature of the BX-Ri compared to most similar heads*. Skyport Speeds are v good triggers.

D-Lites are excellent too, and very small and light. I use a couple of the first D-Lite 200 models and they've been great. New ones are even better with cooling fans.

FWIW if I was buying again, my ideal outfit (assuming Profoto is out of budget) would be two BX-250Ri and one 500. Plus spending about the same again on some nice modifiers. If that lot is too much, get D-Lites so you can spend on modifiers - that's what makes most difference.

Elinchrom Rotalux softboxes are very nice, but pricey. I have a couple of Lencarta Profold softboxes that are great value (and very easy to put up/down quickly). Also look at Bessel.

* t.5 flash durations are misleading. Multiply by 2x or 3x to get the equivalent in effective shutter speeds.
 
Thanks for the help with this, if I go for the 250/250 will I ever need the extra power indoors, also is there any benefit using the BRXi over the D-lite other than build quality and a few extra functions in the menu's?

Do you know if the stands supplied with the BRXi is the same as the D-lite?
 
xrayhead said:
Thanks for the help with this, if I go for the 250/250 will I ever need the extra power indoors
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Very unlikely for anything like portraits. A typical 400Ws will give you f/22 at ISO100 in a 100cm softbox at 1.0m, so you'll likely be down the lower power end mostly. You need more power for groups, as the light must be further back and you tend to need a higher f/number for more DoF, but still no problem.

Easy way to increase effective power is to push the ISO - every extra stop of ISO is the equivalent of doubling the Ws flash output.

also is there any benefit using the BRXi over the D-lite other than build quality and a few extra functions in the menu's?
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Nothing that's not in specs.

Do you know if the stands supplied with the BRXi is the same as the D-lite?
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I think they're the same.
 
HoppyUK said:
Very unlikely for anything like portraits. A typical 400Ws will give you f/22 at ISO100 in a 100cm softbox at 1.0m, so you'll likely be down the lower power end mostly. You need more power for groups, as the light must be further back and you tend to need a higher f/number for more DoF, but still no problem.

Easy way to increase effective power is to push the ISO - every extra stop of ISO is the equivalent of doubling the Ws flash output.

Nothing that's not in specs.

I think they're the same.
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Great tip on the ISO, didn't think of that, as said am very new to this!

Thanks..
 
Ok been looking into this a lot and I'm wondering if I should be looking at the Bownes Kit? I like the idea of the power pack that can be added at a latter date. Also the controls on the Bowens look KISS (keep It Stupid Simple)..

I've taken on board that I will need the lower powered strobes so now looking in the 200/250 range, I did a couple of screen caps today with some Elinchrom kit and was wondering what you think?

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With the kit above I am on my "MAX" budget (if over a tad TBO)
 
That's a lot of lightmeter, the sekonic 308s will do you fine
 
Al Brum said:
That's a lot of lightmeter, the sekonic 308s will do you fine
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3 Reasons I went for the 358, 1st retraction of the Lumisphere gives the ability to meter from individual light source, 2nd (Optional Radio Flash Triggering) Wireless module is available for the unit, 3rd Ambient Light Metering up to 30mins

Looking on ebay at both models its about £60 more for the 358 and you are getting far more features. But back to your QUOTE, I'll have a read up on the 308s as I've only really looked at the 358 before as it has the wireless trigger and its featured in lots of training video's I have been looking at..
 
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I'd stick with Elinchrom. Plug them into an Innovatronix Explorer battery pack.

358 is a nice meter. Rotalux 135 is a lovely softbox, if you've got the room for it. Hard to advise on modifiers without knowing what you want to do and how you want to do it. Personally, I would tread carefully if you're a newcomer and get what you need when you know exactly what you want.
 
I'm not knocking the 358, if you will use the features it is probably worth the cash but for studio work it is overkill in my opinion.
 
HoppyUK said:
I'd stick with Elinchrom. Plug them into an Innovatronix Explorer battery pack.

358 is a nice meter. Rotalux 135 is a lovely softbox, if you've got the room for it. Hard to advise on modifiers without knowing what you want to do and how you want to do it. Personally, I would tread carefully if you're a newcomer and get what you need when you know exactly what you want.
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:thumbs:That's good advice. Rushing off and buying a kit just because of price, spec or anything other than real need is a poor way of doing things - your starting point needs to be to based on your personal needs.

As for the Sekonic 358, just bear in mind that all meters, regardless of price and spec, do exactly the same job. The extra money is for extra features. For some people, extra features can also be extra benefits, but very often extra features will never be used and are little more than marketing hype.
 
Al Brum said:
I'm not knocking the 358, if you will use the features it is probably worth the cash but for studio work it is overkill in my opinion.
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Garry Edwards said:
:thumbs:That's good advice. Rushing off and buying a kit just because of price, spec or anything other than real need is a poor way of doing things - your starting point needs to be to based on your personal needs.

As for the Sekonic 358, just bear in mind that all meters, regardless of price and spec, do exactly the same job. The extra money is for extra features. For some people, extra features can also be extra benefits, but very often extra features will never be used and are little more than marketing hype.
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Many thanks for the help guy's... Still haven't pulled the trigger on this, saving it for next week :-)
 
I have the Elinchrome D lites and love them. Thinking about a 2nd set for a full studio set up for HighKey. Easy to use and very reliable.
 
I finally went for the BRXi 250/250 and received them in the post yesterday! First impressions are good and the units are a breeze to set-up and use. I also went for the 135cm Rotalux Octa and the quality of them far out seeds the standard softbox's you get with the 250/250 kit (although I haven't really had a chance to see what they can do).

I did some low key stuff last night and it seems I have a LOT to learn now, all I need to do is find a good reference source for two light set-ups in small studios (anyone got any good links?)..

Also ordered the Sekonic L-358 so should get that in the next couple of days.

Many thanks for the help guy's, will let you know how I get on..
 
On the mobile at the moment but will look later for the link. There is an extensive thread here on 2 and 3 light set ups
 
lartamax said:
On the mobile at the moment but will look later for the link. There is an extensive thread here on 2 and 3 light set ups
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Thanks, would really appreciate that! So far I have been looking at Strobox :|
 
Had a quick look on the phone its in ths people and portraits section under a thread on home studio set ups. Cant copy the link at the moment sorry.

John
 
xrayhead said:
I finally went for the BRXi 250/250 and received them in the post yesterday! First impressions are good and the units are a breeze to set-up and use. I also went for the 135cm Rotalux Octa and the quality of them far out seeds the standard softbox's you get with the 250/250 kit (although I haven't really had a chance to see what they can do).

I did some low key stuff last night and it seems I have a LOT to learn now, all I need to do is find a good reference source for two light set-ups in small studios (anyone got any good links?)..

Also ordered the Sekonic L-358 so should get that in the next couple of days.

Many thanks for the help guy's, will let you know how I get on..
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135cm softbox is a lovely thing, gorgeous soft light, but perhaps not the best for learning.

Good lighting is about using highlights and shadows reveal shape, but since the 135 is so big you'll not get much in the shadows department. The 60cm softboxes are better for that. Try setting up in a darkened room with just one 60cm SB, modelling light on full, and have a helper move the light around while you watch how the shadows move from the camera position.

Move it left/right, up/down, and near far. Then get a reflector and see how that works on the shadow side. Light bounces of a surface at the same angle it strikes, like a snooker ball off the cushion - use that to position and angle it. Note the difference between the white and silver sides.

An easy way to get a soft light with a slightly harder element is with a silver umbrella. Dead cheap and easy. Harder light looks great when you get it right, more punch, but is more critical of subject positioning.
 
To add to the above, my advice is to learn by experimentation, it's generally a waste of time adopting setups used by other people.

The sad thing in fact is that there are so many people who actually believe that there is such as thing as a setup...
Personally I never have a clue how I'm going to light a subject until they are in front of the camera.
 
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