Am I better than I think?

Robbo

Robbo

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Right, long stories short.

I have been talking to a few local pro/semi pro photographers working for the papers and personal business etc.

They said they will help me and give me advice etc etc. They havent yet done so BUT.......pointed me to a few website of people they know who they have give their advice to, and claim that they are 'pretty good' or 'really good'

I check them out, and very disappoint, colours seem dull and wrong, compositions seem poor, kinda of like they have been shot from a £30 compact camera.

looks like there has been no PP done at all to correct any poor white balance or white/black points. no sharpening where needed, just look....well poor!

I feel I should be telling them things lol

So maybe I need more confidence in my self that I know more than I think?

I am literally obsessed with learning in this field, always researching how the camera works, lighting, best whats in certain situations etc, different PP ways the list goes on.

I thought everyone was like me, but maybe some people just expect to take a picture with an expensive camera and thats it, 'it will be good'


well a lil bit of a rant over lol
 
The Matt said:
I guess that depends how good you think you are
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The title was rhetorical lol but I think I am better than the pictures/website I have been directed to to help me with photography yes. Especially as some make money from it.
 
One word - time.

Something very important to many pros (especially sports, news etc. - wedding/commercial etc. they can spend longer on each shot.)

For some perhaps just 20 seconds of PP time for some. Some don't even PP their own shots they send them to 'base' and they do that there.


Thats the difference.
 
JEmerson said:
One word - time.

Something very important to many pros (especially sports, news etc. - wedding/commercial etc. they can spend longer on each shot.)

For some perhaps just 20 seconds of PP time for some. Some don't even PP their own shots they send them to 'base' and they do that there.


Thats the difference.
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are you meaning more time spent on pictures or more time to them self? :thinking:

One example I mean is from a guys own private website which he post his pictures.

I saved a copy and done what I consider the basics in PP to the picture, and it turned it from a dull flat image to a brighter correctly colours sharper image. literally too me about 1 minute. I just get the feeling a lot of 'pro togs' in my area might not know as much as you would expect, even down to the basics. Maybe its just me who is obsessed with learning.
 
Robbo said:
are you meaning more time spent on pictures or more time to them self? :thinking:

One example I mean is from a guys own private website which he post his pictures.

I saved a copy and done what I consider the basics in PP to the picture, and it turned it from a dull flat image to a brighter correctly colours sharper image. literally too me about 1 minute. I just get the feeling a lot of 'pro togs' in my area might not know as much as you would expect, even down to the basics. Maybe its just me who is obsessed with learning.
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Hmmm it depends :thinking: You keep mentioning brighter colours and sharpness which really arent always what makes the picture. Your pics are technically excellent but could you project that into a picture that carries a feeling? I guess we would need to know what kind of photography this is, is it press or just social photography? :)
 
It's what you do that counts.

I've had a look at your pictures and there is some good work on Flickr. However, it's kind of specialised and not very commercial. What else can you do? If you're interested in local commercial and press work you need to be able to turn your hand to a wide range of subject matter - on demand - in whatever conditions present themselves - and still come out with winning shots - every time. Could you do that?
 
awp said:
It's what you do that counts.

I've had a look at your pictures and there is some good work on Flickr. However, it's kind of specialised and not very commercial. What else can you do? If you're interested in local commercial and press work you need to be able to turn your hand to a wide range of subject matter - on demand - in whatever conditions present themselves - and still come out with winning shots - every time. Could you do that?
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Vic, I meant brighter colours as in not dull and drab looking like he has took them through a glass of washing up water lol I know each subject has its own feeling and colours etc.

awp

Well this particular stuff I was looking at was sports, mainly rugby. and it just did nothing for me, if you looked at them you would understand, groups of over and under exposure, nasty shadowing or highlights that could have been sorted PP. I just feel there is lack of basic knowledge or interest in their own pictures.

There was just a feel of real basic 'this is my first go with a camera, bang it in auto and all will be good' ...not what I would class as good images, never mind 'winning shots' lol


Yes most of my flickr work is marco, I dont usually post much up on there recently anymore as it normally stays on my computer now.

I picked up my first dslr 6 months ago and feel I am doing quite well in my short time. I try to take pride in my picture and love researching into anything related to photography, if it be from just learning how things work, or technique to improving.
 
Robbo, your photos are great. I would say your an excellent photographer. Yes yours are specialised but that I think, is what spurs you on to be the best you can be. Anyone can snap at people places events etc with a DSLR these days. Being a specialist in a particular field will create excellence.
 
Bradders09 said:
Robbo, your photos are great. I would say your an excellent photographer. Yes yours are specialised but that I think, is what spurs you on to be the best you can be. Anyone can snap at people places events etc with a DSLR these days. Being a specialist in a particular field will create excellence.
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Thanks.

as my post say above I have only been doing this about 6 months now. Recently spreading out into different areas now, and quite happy with the results I am getting in them so far...always room for improvement though.
 
Can we have a look at the websites you've been directed to? You've got me interested.
 
The Matt said:
Can we have a look at the websites you've been directed to? You've got me interested.
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I dont think its right to post the pictures or the web address/s considering the topic of the conversation lol
 
karmagarda said:
God no, you're bloody awful.
Just kidding :lol:. Always been a fan of your photos mate, so if you're doubting yourself, then yes, you're better than you think :)
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lol I was just about to send you a nasty PM :lol:

Cheers, its not so much me doubting myself, but when you compare yourself to some one who does this as a profession, and you find yourself looking at their pictures thinking...what the hell :thinking: .....

...it just makes you think a bit thats all.
 
Robbo said:
lol I was just about to send you a nasty PM :lol:

Cheers, its not so much me doubting myself, but when you compare yourself to some one who does this as a profession, and you find yourself looking at the pictures thinking...what the hell :thinking: .....

...it just makes you think a bit thats all.
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I find that a bit too, but more so with other peoples photos as opposed to my own. There's a lot of shocking photography out there getting paid for, and then there's some crazily good stuff not being picked up. Beats me :shrug:
 
karmagarda said:
I find that a bit too, but more so with other peoples photos as opposed to my own. There's a lot of shocking photography out there getting paid for, and then there's some crazily good stuff not being picked up. Beats me :shrug:
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thats it, suppose its just one of them things, as with everything!

I feel like taking a picture now,.....still need to get that panorama in :thinking:
 
The way I look at things is that I can't be as good as I think, or like to think I am.
One motor mag saw some of my work and said they were good, but they unfortunately had a photographer at the meeting. But if I went to another to let them know. I did but nothing came of it.
Silverstone Race Circuit told me that some prints they saw of mine that they asked me to send in to them were stunning, and much better than anything they had. But again they had their own photographer.
So if I was that good, how come I havent been offered some work from them both?

If someone says Im good, I'll take that with a pinch of salt as words are cheap but its actions that count for me. So I look the other way now. I cant be very good or Id be making a lot more money.

Brian

www.brianhewittimages.co.uk
 
You always have to rememeber that you don't know the situation behind the pictures. There could be so many times someone looks at one of my pictures and thinks, the composition is a bit odd and it's not that sharp, what they can't see in the picture is that I've been in horizontal snow and 40mph winds for the past hour, I can no longer feel my fingers and the viewfinder is a fogged up muddy wet mess! I've certainly not thought like that until I started working as a pro, I used to think one particular persons photos were boring albeit well exposed and sharp, now I realise under the pressure of a race with just one chance to get the shot, that I'd probably get the same kind of pictures.

It probably changes quite a bit depending on what you're shooting but I only really shoot sports.
 
Sadly, in today's world 'good' is not always what people want - it's cheap or free! That's what we're up against in 2010. Sad but true.

It takes a degree of luck and a lot of perseverance - if you really want to succeed you will!
 
Awl that sound very true to me!

Roofowler, I understand what your saying and agree, but I the case I am on about I know this wasn't the.

I massivly improved some of his picture in pp spending just a few minutes on them, and I only changed very very basic things that were clearly missed out and simple to see.

Just winds me up a bit see a few 'pros' locally saying how good they are and woul give me
tips, and then when I see their picture I feel I am the one who should give them the tips
 
Robbo, the sad fact is that unless they have an interest in photography, Joe Public often doesn't have high expectations and they will accept work another photogapher may have doubts about. Whether you're 'good' is irrelevant; I am a firm believer that being in the right place at the right time gets you more work than any amount of skill.

Plus, 'good' and 'really good' are subjective comments; I've seen some stuff just on TP that people have termed 'really good' and I came away not having liked it - it's a personal thing much of the time; one man's meat is another man's poision, so to speak.

You're technically pretty decent IMO - for a relative novice you've got good exposure technique etc - but don't worry about what others are doing; set your own standard, produce work that pushes the boundaries and just keep opening doors... something good will come along :)
 
From what I can see, being successful doesn't mean you are good.

I was tasked with shooting candid shots at a mate's wedding last year. I talked to the pro tog and he sang a good song.

Hhis photos were not bad - but compared to some of the wedding togs on TP.... his shots were average!

This guy gets lots of wedding work and charges premium rates. Reason - because he talks a good talk. Business first, photography second.
 
If your asking the question then no. I would say you have walked into the trap of six months ownership where you now feel ready to talk about being a 'pro'. It's fine as everyone does it but personally without sounding harsh, I don't see any abject brlliance standout photos. I do see Consistent keen amatuer work which is worth going on with.

An honest opinion not designed to upset you. I am merely saying what I think. Good luck.
 
FlyTVR said:
From what I can see, being successful doesn't mean you are good.

I was tasked with shooting candid shots at a mate's wedding last year. I talked to the pro tog and he sang a good song.

Hhis photos were not bad - but compared to some of the wedding togs on TP.... his shots were average!

This guy gets lots of wedding work and charges premium rates. Reason - because he talks a good talk. Business first, photography second.
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Basically yup - there's lots of people making a living out of photography who's pics aren't that amazing - but they must have a decent business plan/skills to make it work.

I don't think there is some objective standard above which you can be 'pro' and below which you are 'amateur'.
 
Diego Garcia said:
If your asking the question then no. I would say you have walked into the trap of six months ownership where you now feel ready to talk about being a 'pro'. It's fine as everyone does it but personally without sounding harsh, I don't see any abject brlliance standout photos. I do see Consistent keen amatuer work which is worth going on with.

An honest opinion not designed to upset you. I am merely saying what I think. Good luck.
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the title was mainly a thread catcher, not a question.

I'm not trying to say or think I am a pro, far from it, I am very criticle of my work and class it as ok for the time I have had my camera.

I'm merely saying that my work compared to a few local 'pros' are better, without me thinking my work is now suddenly pro.

It's hard to explain without showing the pics, but lacks the real basics, colours/White balance looks off, dull, drap, composition Ocer and under patches of exposure etc. It really does just look like oh I have a camera I will bang it in auto any they will just turn out fine lol

I just don't understand how they get this far and for me, a relative newbie can pic out the faults, and massively improve them in pp within a few minutes..
 
Robbo said:
tIt really does just look like oh I have a camera I will bang it in auto any they will just turn out fine lol
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In spite of today's 'cheap over quality' culture, I don't think many would survive for too long if that really was their attitude. I know I wouldn't.
 
awp said:
Sadly, in today's world 'good' is not always what people want - it's cheap or free! That's what we're up against in 2010. Sad but true.

It takes a degree of luck and a lot of perseverance - if you really want to succeed you will!
Click to expand...

I tend to find that this is true more often than not.

Ian.
 
LOL... funny thread. It's good that you have not posted example links Robbo and I've nosed at your Flickr. You clearly have the technical side of photography under control, but think you should concentrate on the breadth and depth of your own work rather than criticising people who have not asked for it.
 
Gordon, not all my work is on flickr, just my macro stuff, and other general snaps.

I am broadening my range of photography, after only doing this 6 months along side a 48+ hour week and home life doesn't give me as much time to play as I like. So the broader range is a slower process, which is why macro took more interest as it was easier for me to put more time into. Easy in the back garden or in house etc


Thanks for the comments on my flickr pics
 
Maybe you should post some of your best pics and let us see if you're good enough? :)
 
Specifically talking about the Rugby etc. I got a few in the local rag but they tend to want different things. This is another skill you need to learn - what the papers want!

I always thought they'd want the sharpest, action packed image. My technical pick of the bunch. More often than not they want a picture of a character, maybe winning team skipper, try scorer, highest points scorer. They don't just want a set of images they want a photo that goes with the story. If you haven't penned the report then at least name the players you have photographed.

What this also means is you need to do your homework before the game. Who are the team's captains (watch the toss at the beginning). Who is playing well and changing the run of the game? Don't be scared to ask people if you don't know a player's name.

It may well be your images ARE better than the ones you looked at. But the people you have compared to may well be sending to a rag more than just a picture.
 
Freester, what you say does make sense, as I think this guy got his tips from a paper tog etc

it just doesn't make sense how anyone can spend 2k plus on the body of a camera, and miss the basics, in setting or pp were ever his faults were, surely even the basics should get sorted, if not for the paper, surely for yourself as your, or his name is watermarcked all over it.

But yes I am now realizing newspaper togging is probably different to taking pictures for you own pleasure.
 
Robbo said:
But yes I am now realizing newspaper togging is probably different to taking pictures for you own pleasure.
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It's different because you get told what jobs to shoot - you often have a deadline - and you have to get the picture - no excuses. It has to illustrate the story - and be of a suitable technical quality for the paper. You have to have enough equipment to cover almost anything - and know your equipment like the back of your hand. Start practising!
 
grum said:
Would it be considered bad form to post links to the websites you are talking about? :)
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Yes - they can't defend themselves or offer explanations. Interesting that he hasn't posted any of his own work.
 
It all depends on what they are being paid to do...

I know someone who only shoots in auto, and tries getting shots of celebrities.
You probably wouldnt like the quality of the pictures but he has no time to worry about composition, as long as he gets the person in the shot clearly then he often gets paid for his pictures.

I dont often see vivid, perfectly lit photographs in newspapers... often the pictures look like snapshots.

If you are referring to commercial ad work where these pictures are being shown in glossy mag ads or posters etc then i would be suprised if the shots were not setup correctly as that is a big money industry.

Also, time is money... maybe these photographers have not been paid to go through and pp all the pictures? and maybe again its a subjective thing. Not everybody likes high contrast vivid perfectly lit shots. I sometimes like the photographs that look more like candid snapshots from a point and shoot.
 
it just doesn't make sense how anyone can spend 2k plus on the body of a camera, and miss the basics, in setting or pp were ever his faults were, surely even the basics should get sorted, if not for the paper, surely for yourself as your, or his name is watermarcked all over it.

But yes I am now realizing newspaper togging is probably different to taking pictures for you own pleasure.
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as soon as people start talking about the price of cameras you can tell they're missing the point. It's not about how expensive your camera is it's about using what you have to nail the shot. Consider the comparison you're making between these other shots and your own. You have had time to set up the shot exactly how you want it with no pressure, and then to post process it after at your leisure. No deadlines or anything like that.

so unless you're comparing like-for-like shots (macro to macro, sport to sport etc.) taken under pressure to meet a specific deadline then it's not a fair comparison. I'm not saying you're incapable but that's probably the difference between your shots and theirs. (mentioned in the first couple of posts i think)
 
I'm not asking for my own work to be judged.

As I have said the title is rhetorical.

And I don't believe it's eight for anyone else to judge his work as he hasn't asked for it.

I am basically saying that if you looked at a pro tog website, water marked images, of different sporting events, you would expect semi decent picture to be placed on his own personal website.

But, all you see is what looks like a parent at side line with a cheap compact camera. Even then, I would expect better.

And the fact that the basic simple pp steps are missing makes me think does he know what he is doing, or is there no pride in him images?

Maybe it's just me as I am really critical with my own pictures, who knows

I feel this thread is losing it's way a bit now, sorry if I haven't been able to explain my point properly lol
 
bomberman said:
as soon as people start talking about the price of cameras you can tell they're missing the point. It's not about how expensive your camera is it's about using what you have to nail the shot. Consider the comparison you're making between these other shots and your own. You have had time to set up the shot exactly how you want it with no pressure, and then to post process it after at your leisure. No deadlines or anything like that.

so unless you're comparing like-for-like shots (macro to macro, sport to sport etc.) taken under pressure to meet a specific deadline then it's not a fair comparison. I'm not saying you're incapable but that's probably the difference between your shots and theirs. (mentioned in the first couple of posts i think)
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I am not comparing my macro to his sports.

I am comparing my sports to his.

The picture that were compared were the ones on his owen personal website, which I assume has no deadline.

I'm talking not just about my image vs his, but he ability in pp, I took a few o his pictures and massively improved them within a few minutes using simple basic techniques.

Also, I haven't said all of my pictures are on my flickr, that is basically just macro shots. I never said I was comparing my flickr to his sports

using iPhone excuse spelling
 
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