All because I can't afford a Horseman VH...

[steveo_mcg]

I'm not sure where I'd start! There was a community hack space near me a while back (may still be) but not sure how much it would cost to get that much time on a 3d printer.

 

[stevelmx5]

If you know the flange focal depth of the lens you want to use and the diameter of its' rear thread (where it fits through the front of the body) I could draw one up for you. Wouldn't take too long to print so I'm sure my folks' could print the parts for you for the cost of the filament. I doubt it would cost more than £15 in plastic.

 

[steveo_mcg]

That's very generous Steve, let me have a think about lenses. I've got a couple of spare but they're quite long for a 6x9 or I could hack one off an old folder.


Need to get a back since you didn't take my suggestion to make it RB compatible

 

[stevelmx5]

No problem bud. I didn't make it RB compatible because I haven't got an RB back and I'm selfish like that ;0) I did the same for my lens and took it from an old Ensign folder. There are better lenses out there but seeing as it was free, I compromised!

If you can give me the sizes, I can adjust my model to fit an RB back assuming it's the same basic design as my 23 Graphic which has a flat face and a 6x9 opening with a dark slide.

 

[steveo_mcg]

No problem bud. I didn't make it RB compatible because I haven't got an RB back and I'm selfish like that ;0) I did the same for my lens and took it from an old Ensign folder. There are better lenses out there but seeing as it was free, I compromised!

If you can give me the sizes, I can adjust my model to fit an RB back assuming it's the same basic design as my 23 Graphic which has a flat face and a 6x9 opening with a dark slide.

Is that back Graflok? If it is I might just get one and I can use it on my Shen Hao.

 

[stevelmx5]

The back I've got is for 2x3 backs so just doesn't have the 4x5 surround to fit into a standard Graflok back and is therefore much smaller. As far as I know, the 4x5 surround is part of the back so isn't removable but I have thought about simply mounting mine into a sheet of acrylic if I ever get another 4x5 which should be easy enough.

 

[steveo_mcg]

Good point.

I've got a couple of spare 67 backs, I wonder if it would be better permanently modifying one to match. Could probably get away with a lens from an Ikonta if it was only covering that extra cm too.

 

[stevelmx5]

The 105mm "Ensar" lens I took from the Selfix 20 seems to cover more than the original 9cm width so I reckon you'd get away with it.

With the film back, I haven't made any long term changes to mine as it just slots into a printed back on the camera so you wouldn't need to mount anything long term to it. I'm switching the lens/back between my Snapshot and 3d Field camera.

 

[steveo_mcg]

The RB back mounts onto two fairly substantial [what isnt' substantial on an RB] posts on the rotating bit. My plant for my little 2x3 field camera was to bond some acrylic to the spare back and mount that to the rear standard.

 

[stevelmx5]

Ok, so the RB back has two holes built in for the posts to go into?

 

[steveo_mcg]

Ok, so the RB back has two holes built in for the posts to go into?

You know, I can't remember. Its been so long since I paid any attention to what I do with that camera, its all second nature.

I think the back actually just fits on, the clamp slides across to hold the back and secures itself on the posts.

 

[stevelmx5]

If it's like this then it's the same as my Graphic. I actually ground down the raised strip near the dark slide on the face of mine but with hindsight I didn't need to do that as I could just build in a slot for it to drop into which would have given it an additional grip point.

 

[steveo_mcg]

Yeah its exactly like that, I suspect that they're based on the same standard.

I think that raised bar is part of the light proofing as much as a mechanical guide for fitting.

So you reckon it would "just work"?

 

[stevelmx5]

Yeah, along with "just work", I like to also include, "wing it", "sort of" and "where's the filler"...

Measure the rear face of the back to give me an idea of size and I'll see if the will fit in to my existing design.

 

[steveo_mcg]

Will do.

Want me to send down a back, you could try it with the existing model.

 

[stevelmx5]

Can do if you like mate. I'll pm you my address. I've just finished assembling the SnapShot 6x7 and it's looking very neat. I've even loaded some HP5 and taken my first photo with it but I forgot to build in an LCD so I can't see the result yet...

 

[stevelmx5]

Here's the finished "SnapShot" 6x7;







Fully loaded with the rollfilm back, lens and film it weighs 624g which is pretty lightweight :0)



With the GGS loaded it's 267g

 

[steveo_mcg]

Its a cracking looking camera with the old lens on it! Weight isn't bad either.

 

[stevelmx5]

Cheers bud. It's surprisingly well balanced as well. When fitted the lens to the cone on it's own i thought it would be too front heavy seeing as the lens alone is around 200g but with the rollfilm back fitted it's pretty even distribution now.

Realistically, this build only gives me a slight weight advantage over the original Ensign body but loses the pocketability of a folder in return. However, my biggest issue with most cheaper folders is that they don't have a coupled viewfinder so focusing is always a combination of hope and pray which is where the ground glass comes in. I'm not really a fan of quick street shooting etc so as a landscape body is should give me a lightweight 6x9 and some filter flexibility.

 

[steveo_mcg]

Also gives a good way of salvaging old lens/shutters from beyond repair folders where the back is damaged or the bellows irreparable.

I'm currently trying to get a donor with lens but no bellows and making a small folding pinhole camera at the same time.

 

[stevelmx5]

The idea of a bellows pinhole sounds like an ideal use but I generally struggle to see the real attraction for pinholes (sorry to everyone that shoots them!). I often come up with an idea for making my own then stop because the results seem to be generally out of focus and full of vignettes but I guess that's the attraction!

 

[stevelmx5]

For the time being I've consigned the VH replica to the shelf while I concentrate on the InsTLR which is proving to be a pita to model!

In the meantime, @moomike has kindly developed a test roll of HP5 that I put through the SnapShot and apart from some unexpected overlapping it appears that I've got some sharp results :0). The negatives are pretty dense suggesting some overexposure which I'm not too surprised at considering the shutter has a 1/100th fastest speed and I was shooting iso400 on a sunny day! My main interest is the composition and overall sharpness so I can't wait to see the scanned results, thanks Mike!

 

[stevelmx5]

I've figured out why I've got overlapping shots anyway. I cut out a few 60mm wide strips of A4 paper and taped them together to give me a roll of film to test. I think I haven't wound on the film enough before zeroing the counter as the first 5 shots seem to overlap but that would mainly be the leader on a 120 roll. Oh well. Live and learn!

 

[stevelmx5]

Ok, the results are in. Thanks again to Mike for developing and scanning these for me. Looks like the expired HP4 has the usual chunky grain but some interesting results regardless.

As expected, there's some light leakage through the filter slot but as the current cover is only clipped into place I'm not really surprised. First job is to fit some flocking onto the underside of the clip in cover which should sort this out.

Following on from the light leaks, the lens really isn't that sharp and flares! I've only ever put a couple of rolls of film through the original Ensign where I took the lens from and they were equally soft so again, I'm willing to forgive the 90 year old lens :0) Ideally, I'd like to replace the lens with something more modern with better coating to reduce flare but as an experiment and test bed I reckon a nice roll of Ektar or Velvia could give some positive results. I also need to work on my handholding as the shutter having a max speed of 1/100th with a 105mm lens is pretty close to the limit.

As for the overlaps, I think that's user error when I loaded the film so I'll see what happens with my next roll.

Anyway, time to work on version 2.0 :0)

Cheers
Steve

 

[stevelmx5]

Just thinking about the general sharpness and realised that some of the softness is probably caused by me tripping the shutter manually on the lens itself which in turn is likely to cause some movement. I'll shoot the next room with a cable release and see if the results improve. Assuming they do, I might update the model to include a slot to hold the release.

 

[stevelmx5]

Ok, having now sold my Pen FT I've got some funds available to start looking for a genuine Horseman instead of building my own. Has anyone here ever owned one and have any thoughts/feedback about them? I've been watching a VH from Japan for a while which is within budget and more the model I was looking at (no rangefinder) but I've also seen what looks like a 970 in the UK which £100 less but has a non-original 105mm lens so the RF may not align properly. All ideas appreciated!

 

[medwaygreen]

Ok, having now sold my Pen FT I've got some funds available to start looking for a genuine Horseman instead of building my own. Has anyone here ever owned one and have any thoughts/feedback about them? I've been watching a VH from Japan for a while which is within budget and more the model I was looking at (no rangefinder) but I've also seen what looks like a 970 in the UK which £100 less but has a non-original 105mm lens so the RF may not align properly. All ideas appreciated!

Talk to Asha,he can give you the info you want. He owns a great piece of kit called Horseman.

 

[stevelmx5]

Hi @Asha Looks like you're the man :0) Which model have you got and what are your thoughts?

Cheers

 

[Asha]

Hi @Asha Looks like you're the man :0) Which model have you got and what are your thoughts?

Cheers

Hi Steve,

Tbh I doubt I'm the person to help you with this as you're after a VH which is a field camera....I have an L45 which is a monorail system.

Quality build and precision gearing etc, which i would presume shows itself with all their models, so for that reason alone, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase the same make of kit although I've little doubt that other makes are as good if not better.

Horseman itself don't come cheap, however many sinar accessories such as bellows and lens boards are compatible and function without problems....I suspect this may be irrelevant for a field outfit though??

 

[stevelmx5]

Thanks Asha. I am looking at the field cameras but appreciate your advice. I've been looking at all of the models from the 970-985 as well as the later VH/R and have pretty much decided on a 985 or a VH if I can find one within my budget of £300. I'm not really bothered about the rangefinder because I don't really see them as a walkabout camera but I do want the range of movements that the later models offer.

 

[StephenM]

Following on from the light leaks, the lens really isn't that sharp and flares! I've only ever put a couple of rolls of film through the original Ensign where I took the lens from and they were equally soft so again, I'm willing to forgive the 90 year old lens :0) Ideally, I'd like to replace the lens with something more modern with better coating to reduce flare

Steve

Apologies for coming late to this point, but are you certain that the flare can be laid to the door of the lens? There was an interesting article in the BJP Almanac around 1961 as I recall which quantified where flare came from in terms of how much was the lens, how much internal reflection within the camera and so on. A surprising amount of non-image forming light originated in the camera rather than lens, although I have to admit that without re-reading it I'm hazy on the details.

 

[stevelmx5]

Funnily enough, I sprayed the interior of the camera with Plasti Dip tonight! It's a rubberised coating that has a matt black finish because I thought the same thing about internal reflections as PLA has a natural sheen too it when it's printed. I'll let it dry overnight and see how it looks in the morning.

This is the finish the paint gives (on the platter of a Technics 1210 deck I'm smoothing as a side project)



Once this has gone off, I need to flock the underside of the clip in cover I use on the filter
slot to make sure there are no stray light leaks there along with the edge of the rails that the rollfilm back slots into. Depending on the result of my next test roll (shot with a remote release next time), I might still print up a lens hood to give it some extra help anyway.

 

[stevelmx5]

Has anyone used a Century Graphic 2x3? I'm interesting in their range of movement in comparison to the Horseman. I realise that the Century will be at least 30-40 years older than the Horseman but I've come across one with 2 Rollfilm backs and 2 lenses (Super Angulon 65/8 and Ysarex 105/4.5) for the same price I'm looking at a Horseman 985 with one lens so am comparing the options.

I prefer the newer styling of the Horseman but the pack with 2 lenses/backs offers more value and flexibility.

 

[stevelmx5]

My new ground glass arrived yesterday from Lithuania and is again excellent quality for very little money. I mounted it into the removable plate this morning for the 6x7 SnapShot body and I'm really happy with the brightness;

Originally I was intending to have a drop in Cokin P filter behind the lens but I realised after getting the first test roll back that the light leaks weren't from the body, they were from the edge of the filter when it's fitted (stupid moment!). The only way around this would be to have a cover that goes over the top of the filter when it's installed to surround it and stop light getting in from the top. I think there would always still be a risk of light leaks so I'm going to skin the body in the same black leather I've used on the Pinhole camera and cover the filter slot. The lens isn't the greatest quality anyway so I'm not going to be shooting any big landscapes so I'll save the filters for my Mamiya kit instead.

 

[stevelmx5]

And one result from this setup. There was a lot of flare on the other roll I shot through it that I put down to the filter slot but as that's now covered up I'm guessing it's either light leaking around the base of the lens or flare through the lens itself. Either way, I definitely need an upgrade :0)