Alice Gross

Because it seems anyone is allowed over here
 
Because as far as immigration is concerned, we are the toilet of the world.
We are where most of the s*** ends up.
 
neil_g said:
i seem to remember another thread on here where it was discussed that once a sentence has been served then the person should be able to go about the rest of their lives.

but lets not that get in the way of a bit of pitchforking.. ;)
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To an extent Neil I agree with that sentiment, but I would hope that at some point in the future, when whatever Government that is in place decides to clean up our immigration policy, that the persons past convictions should be taken into account. Surely criminal records should be checked. We are not talking here about someone that that has driving convictions or petty theft etc. The guy is a convicted murderer.
 
FWIW i agree.

however playing devils advocate, where do you draw the line? what about convicted UK citizens who have served their sentence? should they not deserve to get on with their lives?

also what if the murder conviction was a self defense case that went wrong? do we know the details of that?
 
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neil_g said:
FWIW i agree.

however playing devils advocate, where do you draw the line? what about convicted UK citizens who have served their sentence? should they not deserve to get on with their lives?

also what if the murder conviction was a self defense case that went wrong? do we know the details of that?
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Unfortunately, the convicted UK citizens are already here, so there isnt really anythng we can do about them without bringing back the death penalty or sending them to a little island somewhere.

I just think the controls need to be tighter. A friend of mine who moved to Australia found the controls over there really strict. Questions about Assets/savings, trades/skills and full family background checks, criminal records etc etc. They allow people in that they think will benefit their country. What does this guy offer us, apart from cheap building site labour?
 
neil_g said:
FWIW i agree.

however playing devils advocate, where do you draw the line? what about convicted UK citizens who have served their sentence? should they not deserve to get on with their lives?

also what if the murder conviction was a self defense case that went wrong? do we know the details of that?
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It may well have sprung from a case where a self defence defence was used, but if convicted of murder, the jury clearly weren't convinced, hence a murder conviction.
This chap is Latvian anyway...Latvia is an EU member. Pretty much free to come here regardless of criminal history, it would seem.
Try getting into USA, CANADA, NZ, AUSTRALIA etc with a criminal record.
 
neil_g said:
FWIW i agree.

however playing devils advocate, where do you draw the line? what about convicted UK citizens who have served their sentence? should they not deserve to get on with their lives?

also what if the murder conviction was a self defense case that went wrong? do we know the details of that?
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Just seen the second bit of this.

Unfortunately, there are no details regarding the conviction, but id still hope that these things would be looked at. He was also arrested in 2009 for assulting a 14 year old girl, but it didnt go as far as court etc, so there are also no details about that. No smoke without fire...as they say.
 
viv1969 said:
It may well have sprung from a case where a self defence defence was used, but if convicted of murder, the jury clearly weren't convinced, hence a murder conviction.
This chap is Latvian anyway...Latvia is an EU member. Pretty much free to come here regardless of criminal history, it would seem.
Try getting into USA, CANADA, NZ, AUSTRALIA etc with a criminal record.
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This is very true, I was forgetting that.
 
People complaining that sentences are too light in the UK may wish to read the linked article. Seven years for murder in Latvia, apparently.
 
more to the point ...... he should have been served the death penalty for the first crime....Just saying.......
 
neil_g said:
said every pitchfork lynch mob ever ;)
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Only if they are carrying flaming torches as well ;)

But seriously, I dont think its the same thing at all as likening it to the 'have camera must be a P****' issue. We know this guy has history, but the average paranoid parent wouldnt know anything about the person with the camera, and would just base their assumptions on media driven tripe (and other sources).

Not the same :p
 
viv1969 said:
It may well have sprung from a case where a self defence defence was used, but if convicted of murder, the jury clearly weren't convinced, hence a murder conviction.
This chap is Latvian anyway...Latvia is an EU member. Pretty much free to come here regardless of criminal history, it would seem.
Try getting into USA, CANADA, NZ, AUSTRALIA etc with a criminal record.
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Being reported that he was convicted of murdering his wife. Another fine fellow :mad:
 
I'm generally in favour of immigration, but anyone with a serious criminal conviction should be automatically excluded, especially if a violent or sex offence.
 
The Latvian being hunted stabbed his wife to death and dumped the body in a shallow grave. Latvian police officer in charge of the case said Zalkalns was completely without remorse.
 
Prior to murdering his wife, he had stabbed her in the abdomen - anattack she survived only for him to later murder her.
 
PatrickO said:
I'm generally in favour of immigration, but anyone with a serious criminal conviction should be automatically excluded, especially if a violent or sex offence.
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That would be a common sense view, but am guessing that you would not be able to do that to anyone from an EU state.
 
PatrickO said:
I'm generally in favour of immigration, but anyone with a serious criminal conviction should be automatically excluded, especially if a violent or sex offence.
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Yes but ... be careful what you wish for.

Obviously this couldn't be done unilaterally, because of the right to freedom of movement within the EU, so it would have to be agreed at an EU level. However the 28 EU states don't have identical legal systems, so there would need to be some sort of process to agree what constitutes a "serious" conviction. What if an offence carries a sentence of 10 years in one country but only 2 years in another country. Is it "serious" or not? Obviously some degree of harmonisation would be helpful in this context... and before you know what's happened, the euro-federalists have got up to speed and you've outsourced our entire legal system to Brussels.
 
Yes but ... be careful what you wish for.

Obviously this couldn't be done unilaterally, because of the right to freedom of movement within the EU, so it would have to be agreed at an EU level. However the 28 EU states don't have identical legal systems, so there would need to be some sort of process to agree what constitutes a "serious" conviction. What if an offence carries a sentence of 10 years in one country but only 2 years in another country. Is it "serious" or not? Obviously some degree of harmonisation would be helpful in this context... and before you know what's happened, the euro-federalists have got up to speed and you've outsourced our entire legal system to Brussels.
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You also need to consider that there are offences in the UK not considered illegal abroad, and vice versa. It's very difficult to take that into account.
 
Yes it could become a problem to apply to many charges / convictions; but a "Murder" conviction, in whatever country, carrying whatever sentence, should prevent your entry to the UK for the rest of your natural. JMO
 
Bernie174 said:
You also need to consider that there are offences in the UK not considered illegal abroad, and vice versa. It's very difficult to take that into account.
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Yes, differing ages of sexual consent in various countries being an example.
 
Yes it could become a problem to apply to many charges / convictions; but a "Murder" conviction, in whatever country, carrying whatever sentence, should prevent your entry to the UK for the rest of your natural. JMO
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I'd agree, but at what point do you draw the line? Causing death by careless driving aged 17? In some Countries that is a degree of murder, in some manslaughter. Would you bar someone age 40, who was say a Doctor now who has that as a conviction?

Then there's getting evidence of a conviction. Not as straight forward as it perhaps should be. Some Countries have an unreliable CRO system. Even ours can be at fault. I nicked a guy apparently wanted for deportation. 3 Nigerian first names, and a surname each a collection of vowels with the odd other letter thrown in, date and place of birth matched exactly, as did the spelling of his names. So he gets nicked and was due for a one way trip to Nigeria. However, he calmly and sensibly, rather than the more usual shout and scream, made his case to me that it wasn't him. No mention of identity theft, just a calm discussion. He was persuasive and so I did a lot of digging, and eventually, no it wasn't him, even though his name was by his admission unlikely to be repeated. But that took hours of investigation to prove. So how are you going to police things like that?
 
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I think Bernie has nailed it. Even "straightforward" concepts such as "murder" aren't necessarily straightforward when you look at the details of 28 different justice systems. But trying to harmonize these things at a European level would be madness. So we're stuck with a system that has loopholes in it. Freedom of movement within the EU is a good idea, and avoiding the harmonisation / federalisation of EU legal systems is a very good idea, and (sad but, I think, true) trying to prevent incidents such as this one risks throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Looking on the bright side though, if you're convicted of rape or paedophilia or something like that in the UK, once you get out you can go and live in Latvia (or Greece, or Austria, or Denmark, or ... take your pick) where you won't be on a register and you won't have the police looking over your shoulder. So it's not all bad.
 
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Nikon_Nick said:
Well ill be the first person to track down this guy to apologise when his previous conviction is proved false then.
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Not that it really matters, and in no way justifies the tabloids coverage of him, but what previous conviction was this?
 
It's irrelevant anyway.
We are, and will continue to be, the destination of choice for the dregs of humanity, simply because we are governed by spineless cowardly fools.
 
jakeblu said:
Not that it really matters, and in no way justifies the tabloids coverage of him, but what previous conviction was this?
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Post 22
 
PatrickO said:
I'm generally in favour of immigration, but anyone with a serious criminal conviction should be automatically excluded, especially if a violent or sex offence.
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I was as well till a certain load of people have taken advantage and trying to turn our country like their own. Needs to be a lot more tighter laws on immigration IMO. Bring in Visa's and background checks :D
 
Body found in River Brent. Police say that extensive attempts had been made to conceal it. Missing person enquiry is now a murder enquiry although formal identification has yet to be made.
Not an unexpected turn of events, but dreadful nevertheless.
 
CaveDweller said:
I was as well till a certain load of people have taken advantage and trying to turn our country like their own. Needs to be a lot more tighter laws on immigration IMO. Bring in Visa's and background checks :D
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Yeah - bloomin' Catholics bringing their Christianity to these isles! OUT i tell you. I mean, have you seen the way the way their priests dress, telling us what we can and cannot eat on a friday, telling us what books we can and cannot read, starting all these wars, trying to stamp out OUR religion - OUT! And all these different sects arguing with each other. AND WHY DO THEY HAVE SPEAK THAT FOREIGN LATIN, at least try and fit in when you come here.
AND HAVE YOU SEEN HOW THEY TREAT THEIR WOMEN
And their anti science attitude - what are they trying to do, bring us back to the dark ages????
 
CaveDweller said:
I was as well till a certain load of people have taken advantage and trying to turn our country like their own. Needs to be a lot more tighter laws on immigration IMO. Bring in Visa's and background checks :D
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Hang on isn't he from an EU country. Meaning he can go anywhere in the EU. Thats the benefit of us being in the EU.
 
mattyg said:
Hang on isn't he from an EU country. Meaning he can go anywhere in the EU. Thats the benefit of us being in the EU.
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Benefit?
 
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