Airshow Wows !

Tysonator

Tysonator

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Hi All,

I went to the Duxford Airshow 80th D Day Anniversary on Sunday 02nd June which IMO was the better day for the British weather. It was so good the weather I did catch a little too much sun on the day !
I went armed with my Canon R7 paired with Canon EG 100-400L f4-5.6 Mkii IS USM, and a Sony A6600 paired with a Sigma 18-50 f2.8 for planes taxing passed the crowed.

Perhaps I was a little Naïve thinking that mirrorless Subject Tracking AF would be like an Exocet homing in on a Royal Navy Frigate. Either the canon subject tracking on APSC cameras needs tweaking or I am really not using it properly, so can some please please let me know what I am doing wrong.

below is one of many images which are just not in focus while in subject tracking and the R7 has IBIS !
Setting 1/800, F8 ISO 100 400mm focal length, Tv mode, AF point single expanded image has been cropped
IMGL2278-Cropped.JPG




Settings 1/1250, f8, ISO 100, 263mm focal length, Manual mode

IMGL1893-Cropped.JPG





The shot below is better image, though I was expecting pin sharp !

1/100 f8 ISO 100 (auto), 400mm focal length, Tv mode, AF point single expanded

IMGL2268-Cropped.JPG


I am sure the 1/1250 will freeze the action better than 1/800, However a prop war bird at 1/1250 will freeze the propeller as the aircraft are not at or near full throttle. However IBIS though stated at 4 stops should at least give me 2 stops or at a push 3 stops. Therefore my 1/800 on an my 7Dii would have to be at least on 1/1600 at f8 ISO 100 !

What am I doing wrong ! ?

All advise will be very mush appreciated as I might go back to Duxford Battle of Britain Airshow later in the year

Many thanks

T
 
I went to the Cosford air show and had the same experience and was hoping you had got some feedback
 
Did you shoot in bursts? Were the blurry ones just a couple in a sequence of photos? Were the majority sharp?
 
I think it may be to do with using the single point expanded focus. If the single point can't find enough contrast the camera will struggle to focus. You may have improved results by using an expanded focus area. Were you using any subject tracking mode ? I understand vehicle may be not always the best and animal may work better. If you've got Canon DPP installed have look at where the focus point is hitting

My recommendation if you can would be would be have a practice shoot at your local airport and experiment with the tracking modes. With regards to shake I think it's a practice thing and whilst IBIS is good for moving subjects you need to be reasonable smooth with your panning. If you haven't shot aircraft for a while then this may potentially account for being a little rusty with panning
 
Tysonator said:
Hi All,

I went to the Duxford Airshow 80th D Day Anniversary on Sunday 02nd June which IMO was the better day for the British weather. It was so good the weather I did catch a little too much sun on the day !
I went armed with my Canon R7 paired with Canon EG 100-400L f4-5.6 Mkii IS USM, and a Sony A6600 paired with a Sigma 18-50 f2.8 for planes taxing passed the crowed.

Perhaps I was a little Naïve thinking that mirrorless Subject Tracking AF would be like an Exocet homing in on a Royal Navy Frigate. Either the canon subject tracking on APSC cameras needs tweaking or I am really not using it properly, so can some please please let me know what I am doing wrong.

below is one of many images which are just not in focus while in subject tracking and the R7 has IBIS !
Setting 1/800, F8 ISO 100 400mm focal length, Tv mode, AF point single expanded image has been cropped
View attachment 424867




Settings 1/1250, f8, ISO 100, 263mm focal length, Manual mode

View attachment 424870





The shot below is better image, though I was expecting pin sharp !

1/100 f8 ISO 100 (auto), 400mm focal length, Tv mode, AF point single expanded

View attachment 424869


I am sure the 1/1250 will freeze the action better than 1/800, However a prop war bird at 1/1250 will freeze the propeller as the aircraft are not at or near full throttle. However IBIS though stated at 4 stops should at least give me 2 stops or at a push 3 stops. Therefore my 1/800 on an my 7Dii would have to be at least on 1/1600 at f8 ISO 100 !

What am I doing wrong ! ?

All advise will be very mush appreciated as I might go back to Duxford Battle of Britain Airshow later in the year

Many thanks

T
Click to expand...
IBIS / Lens stabilisation will compensate for blur caused by camera shake, NOT blur caused by subject motion.
Imagine the fighter is doing 200 mph, then in 1/800s it travels about 4.5" - not a huge amount, but enough to blur an image unless you are panning.
For a nicely blurred prop you want to be down at 1/200 (or less) - and panning is definitely needed then.
 
I still use a Canon 70d and use the centre 9 focus points. At airshows I always expect a relatively high miss rate. Panning us an art form in itself & at my recent trip to shuttleworth I felt I was very rusty as I'd not done any aircraft in flight photography for some time.
 
For the Fast jets up your Shutter Speed 1/2000 would be a good starting point turn off the ibis , not familiar with canons focus points , if you have a long lens for the sony i would be using zone or wide , and would be expecting a high hit rate ,
 
taxboy said:
I think it may be to do with using the single point expanded focus. If the single point can't find enough contrast the camera will struggle to focus. You may have improved results by using an expanded focus area. Were you using any subject tracking mode ? I understand vehicle may be not always the best and animal may work better. If you've got Canon DPP installed have look at where the focus point is hitting

My recommendation if you can would be would be have a practice shoot at your local airport and experiment with the tracking modes. With regards to shake I think it's a practice thing and whilst IBIS is good for moving subjects you need to be reasonable smooth with your panning. If you haven't shot aircraft for a while then this may potentially account for being a little rusty with panning
Click to expand...


Have to agree, though not with Canon, I find flying things with sky in the background are more often in focus when using a larger focus area, but not extending to the edges of the frame, as a tree or similar will end up in focus and not the subject.
 
I use ancient camera 1dx2 with 100-400mm mk11 and never get ant jets out of focus, jets i use 1/1250 or higher Manual mode over expose by 2/3 stop modified case 3 focus mode and just the diamond focus points in the middle never fails me. NEVER EVER USE IS with high shutters it only slows things down, if i get a blurred image its my fault not the camera. Propellor planes i usually start at 1/120 and often go downwards into double figures. rest same as jets accept i will use IS now. Yes i do get probably 5% blurred here but again that user error not the camera. Most of my aviation is done up the Loop, Lake District or Scotland where they are flying somewhat faster than air shows and you have far less time to catch them
 
Feeling your pain T, I have this same combination, which I'm sure you'll agree can produce stunningly sharp images.

The last time I went to Duxford I shot about 1200 images (got a bit carried away on HS+) and kept about 200 and none of them were really sharp.

My take on this is

1. Never use IS when you are panning with aircraft not even mode 2 (which is meant for panning but I suspect cars on a track) The combined lens and IBIS seem to take quite a while to sort themsleves out even with stationary subjects (when it does an amazing job) but any significant movement of the camera and its pretty much useless.

2. The aircraft display line at Duxford is a long way from the crowd line and normally images will need significant cropping (unless it's something like a B17) and this added to the above gives results like you have in you first image, I to have hundreds of these :-(

3. On most days you are shooting into the light at Duxford, even with L glass I don't think this strong backlight helps at all

4. I also think there is a lot to be said for practice, smooth panning really is a bit of an art. I saw people using "dot sights" at RAF Waddington the other week and that looks quite intersting - if not a bit expensive!

I hope this helps, I can post up a few photos if you like

David
 
My tuppence worth . . . For a long lens turn camera IBIS off, turn lens IS on. Get subject into frame and pan as required. Half press the shutter release button on the camera to get some focus on the subject. WAIT for few seconds while the lens IS gets itself sorted then push the shutter button on the camera the rest of the way to take the photo. The key here is to WAIT for a few seconds while the IS stabilises things. Sort of works for me, not a 100% hit-rate though, plenty of not perfect photos every time!
 
Willid1 said:
4. I also think there is a lot to be said for practice, smooth panning really is a bit of an art. I saw people using "dot sights" at RAF Waddington the other week and that looks quite intersting - if not a bit expensive!

I hope this helps, I can post up a few photos if you like

David
Click to expand...


I have used a "dot" sight on and off since 1964, and it really is the answer to small fast moving things, or things you can't see clearly in the viewfinder.
Then, it was a accessory for the Voigtlander Vito 35mm cameras. I later used it on My Zenit then Pentax 35mm with longer lenses.
I still have it, but a couple of years ago I bought a red-dot one that you can adjust on the camera and is extremely accurate. (Olympus EE-1)

Keeping both eyes open when using them also helps a lot, and makes panning much easier
 
I shot some aircraft on approach at my local last week using my R7 and noticed that those that were slightly further away looked a touch soft, although the focus had hit on each one. Once they got a a bit closer they sharpened up. I can only put this down to haze; especially shooting at an airshow over large concrete areas for subjects at a distance I'd imagine this has an impact as well.
Having seen Duade Paton's video I now only shoot at H rather than H+ as this is also supposed to increase focus accuracy
 
I've only done panning with my Fuji 100-400 lens a handful of times: once at Brands Hatch and a couple of times at Duxford (most recently the flying finale, a couple of weeks ago). I definitely got better results with IS off, and my hit rate was generally just under 10% - of 732 shots last time at Duxford I kept 73, and then culled another 5 or 6 when I looked at them again.

I found that I got much better results with the jets, I guess that's purely down to the much faster shutter speed.

At Brands Hatch, I used manual focus quite a bit; first I'd focus on an area of track, then I'd take bursts while the cars went through that area. It gives the camera one less thing to do and worked quite well. Not sure that's feasible with planes though.
 
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