Airshow Photography. DSLR?

Thanks for looking. There's one on there currently for £127.77 :eek:

I think I'd be pushing my luck going back that far. For starters the LCD on the 350D is actually smaller than the one on my S3.

There's a few 450Ds about on eBay but they don't seem to be going for all that much under list yet. I guess the price of the 500D and 50D will have to come down a bit more before people get tempted to upgrade.

Edit - my bad, they're about £100 under list. There's a few direct Canon refurbs about which may get a punt from me.
 
MarkG said:
... these two are very much on the table:

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS
Canon EF 75-300mm F4.0-5.6 USM III
Click to expand...
http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/55-250mm-is.htm

pete.rush said:
As for a lens, I personally would choose the canon 70-300mm IS over the 55-250mm (its not a good lens), if you went for canon.
Click to expand...
:plusone:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/70-300mm-is.htm

Note that Rockwell states on his 55-250mm page that he hasn't tried it, but I think it's a pretty fair assessment considering the non-IS Canon 75-300s are well-known to be pants. (Might well be better than your P&S, though)

I love the 70-300mm IS - it's excellent quality, has been called a "hidden L", and I think it would see you well for a long time to come. But having said all that, people here that own the 55-250mm IS really rave about that, too - I'm surprised no-one (Hoppy??) has been along yet to dispute Pete's statement that "its not a good lens" (I don't know either way). The 70-300mm IS is surely better, but it is twice the price.

Stroller.
 
If I can chip in, I think a 450d with the 55-250 lens would be a great start for airshow photography, and yet be very usable for day to day photography aswell. Before I invested in a 100-400, I started with a second hand 20d and the 55-250. All the images below were taken with this combination.

IMG_8745.jpg


IMG_7915straight.jpg


IMG_8660_edited-1-copy.jpg


The 70-300 would I'm sure produce equally good results, but at a higher price. If overall budget is a consideration, I think you would be happy with the 55-250. Hope this helps.
 
Well, I did the Canon 450D vs Sony A300 face-off today, and here's the results:

  • They're both good all-rounders.
  • Canon viewfinder is the best of the two (for me).
  • Both live views are fine - obviously the Sony one has more features, but for what I want to use it for, Canon is fine.
  • Grip on the Sony is slightly better for me, but really not by much. This is offset by the fact I prefer the Canon control layout.
  • The A300 does not like Dollond & Aitchison opticians shop signs. Admittedly I was stretching things a bit (100 ISO, long end of the cheaper Sony 70-300, cloudy, and shot from slightly inside the door of the store), but the Sony was focus hunting like crazy and more often than not ended up out of focus. Someone had been playing with settings so I explained what I was doing and gave the camera back to the salesman to try. He got exactly the same results, and even tried swapping to a Tamron 70-300 to no avail. The 450D on the other hand nailed the same test first time and kept on nailing it. It's a contrived test but it's one I've always done when in that store and the A300 is the first camera I've tried that failed it.
  • Prefer the build of the Sony 18-55 kit over the Canon one, but that's not surprising given the Sony doesn't have to worry about IS.
  • I'm utterly sold on the Canon 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS. It may cost twice as much as the 55-250 IS, but it's worth it IMO. Spotting a s/h one here helps make that decision even easier.
So, Canon wins. The decision is whether it wins by enough to justify the £200 premium (allowing for my intention to get reconditioned or s/h on the Canon), and whether I could live with myself knowing I found something better but spurned it.

At this point I'm almost won over, but I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on the focusing problem. Decision will be made tonight either way because I don't want to miss out on that lens.
 
Light, light, light........Probably wouldn't have used ISO 100, being cloudy and overcast, would have up'd the ISO, would also have check the aperture, f5.6 at 300mm ok if shutter speed was reasonable slow, but you've hit on the problem with the budget zooms, in good light (great), cloudy, overcast you start getting problems.

Strolls
I love the 70-300mm IS - it's excellent quality, has been called a "hidden L", and I think it would see you well for a long time to come. But having said all that, people here that own the 55-250mm IS really rave about that, too - I'm surprised no-one (Hoppy??) has been along yet to dispute Pete's statement that "its not a good lens" (I don't know either way). The 70-300mm IS is surely better, but it is twice the price.
Click to expand...

What it really comes down too with lenses, is light conditions, if you could promise wall to wall sun (no haze), then these budget lenses would get you ok/good images, however, introduce the famous british weather, dark or overcast skies, haze etc, thats where these budget zooms fall over with problems describe above (eg hunting), I'm not disputing that people love the 55-250 and it produces good result in the right conditions, but change those conditions and its a different story.

You get what you pay for (in most cases)

Peter
 
IIRC, I did do a test with ISO 100 + 70-300 Tamron on the Canon too. I've no doubt I was pushing things a lot, but that was indeed the point. My test was to determine how well the camera would handle my ineptness. :)

PS - I put the Canon on Auto ISO after doing the test, and fitted the 70-300 IS. That gave me readings of 1/400th at F5.6 (ISO 400). The results are a little soft but certainly usable. As I recall the ISO 100 readings were somewhere around 1/160 but I didn't read off the F-number (I'd presume the same F5.6). Sony readings were the same.
 
pete.rush said:
(eg hunting)
Click to expand...

The aircraft are so far away the camera/lens is almost constantly focusing at infinity. When working in that kind of environment I simply disable the half press auto focus and set the camera to only focus once the AF-ON button has been pressed. Following this I point the camera at the horizon so it focuses to infinity and leave it at that. This way, if you lose track of the aircraft you don't need to worry about focusing and or focus hunting.

Using this method will allow you to set the camera to FPS priority (over focus lock priority, this is where the camera will only fire when 100% focus has been achieved, potentially forcing you to miss a shot) and as long as the correct shutter speed is used you will achieve the maximum amount of shots per second.

On the odd occasion where you are closer to the aircraft leave the camera in AF-C (continuous) focusing mode and holding the AF-ON button will focus track.

On lower end cameras you can usually set the AE-L / AF-L button to work as your AF-ON button.

With regards to low light work the modern cameras are more than capable of capturing high quality results at ISO800. I wouldn't be afraid to use it.

Your best opting for manual exposure too, the bright sky with the highly reflective aircraft skin will trick the camera metering system.

G'luck.

King.
 
precis time :p

LiveView:@
Sony's LiveView is different than everybody else's:
the upside - for AF on moving subjects whilst using Liveview it's the best by far
the downside - it comes at the cost of an smaller optical viewfinder & for critical manual focus adjustment on a static object the Canon is better.
Only you knows which is the better compromise of optical viewfinder/LiveView type for your needs.

Ergonomics:
It might have been useful for you to try both with their respective battery/vertical grips as some people prefer them that way (but obviously adds to cost & weight).
Control layouts one can adapt to & of course once you become used to 1 you would wonder that you ever had a problem - although interestingly enough in their last few bodies it's Canon that's been pinching ideas from Olympus, Pentax & Sony.

AF isn't normally a problem on Sonys - indeed in the entry level they offer a better AF setup than most competitors have had.
Do we know if the Sony was setup for Spot, Wide or Local AF?
Also single, continuous or automatic focus mode?
These all make a difference.

btw there isn't really any point in using ISO100 (other than to get a very long shutter speed) on a Sony as the native sensitivity of the sensor is nearer ISO200.


as they say, over to you :)
 
I think it'd be worth me mentioning that I have an EOS 400D and the 55-250mm lens. The results I've managed to get at air shows have been pretty good, here are a few of examples:







The photos have been cropped, but I'm quite happy with the reach I get with 250mm, especially considering the price of the lens.
 
All reassuring. Thanks. And noted with the ISO. If I get time tomorrow (roofers around sorting out a leak), I'll get down the shop again and do a fairer re-test. However, it was in the salesman's interest to try and fix the problem and he spent what seemed like about five minutes changing settings etc. before declaring defeat.

I'm stuck in the ISO 100 habit from my compact. A habit I'll break in due course no doubt. :)

Re-working prices using Jessops for reference (they're - for once - cheaper than my usual independant) the Sony comes in at £447 (inc kit lens, cards and bag), and the Canon at £495 (inc kit lens and bag, don't need cards). The problem of course is that getting 70-300 + IS on the Canon costs about £250 more than doing the same in the Sony, but that doesn't account for the far better Canon glass.

Looking like Canon then. :)

PS - much thanks for the shooting tips. I'll be printing those off and using them to set the camera up right (as well as the ones in the airshow guide thread)
 
MarkG said:
I'm stuck in the ISO 100 habit from my compact. A habit I'll break in due course no doubt. :)
Click to expand...
Maybe, but don't worry about it for your re-test. The ISO setting of the camera makes no difference at all to the focussing. Neither does the aperture you've set (or the camera has set if in an automatic mode) because the AF works with the lens wide open. It only closes down to the required aperture when the shutter button is pressed.

But if you're comparing two cameras which use different lenses, beware that the lens specification can make a difference. For example an f/4 lens will let in twice as much light as an f/5.6 lens when they're both wide open, so other things being equal it will be able to focus better in poor light. That could invalidate your comparison. On the other hand of course, it could be germane to the comparison: if one system comes with an f/4 lens and the other with an f/5.6 lens in the configurations which you would buy then it's a fair test, because you're comparing the systems and not just the cameras.
 
I'll use the same Tamron lenses (of the correct fit, obviously) and leave the camera in the dreaded green square full auto for the re-test. Can't make it any fairer than that.

Still waiting for a re-quote from my roofer mate though as he's found another fault (one I completely missed). Hopefully it won't put me over budget.
 
Pictures saying 1,000 words (they're pretty lousy pictures, but that isn't the point).

1. Test shot. EOS450D Auto ISO 300mm
danda300.jpg


2. Context shot. EOS450D Auto ISO 70mm
danda70.jpg


These were done yesterday btw.
 
Nothing to worry about Sony fans. Application of common sense solved the focusing issue.

I have no idea what it thought it was focusing on, but the problem goes away with Spot AF (I believe this may actually be a recommendation for the 450D as well). Alternatively, use the 70-300 SSM G lens.

Anyway, I went Canon. I have no doubt I'd have been delighted with the Sony but in the end the decision was simple. The most important criteria for me given my eyesight has to be the viewfinder - and every time I found myself going back to the Canon one.
 
This does of course mean there will be more questions by the dozen. I have two months to learn. :D

Many thanks to everyone for helping me to make the right choice. I've known about this forum for ages but just never got around to looking to see what was here (I didn't think I was good enough to warrant it).
 
70-300 IS USM turned up today (courtesy Gary120190), and I'm very happy so far with both the body and glass. Now I just need some moving targets to practice at. :D
 
Well, now it's time to find out if the money has been well spent. Camera ready, lenses ready, 28GB cards formatted and ready. :)

Had to return the grip I got myself due to a fault, so don't have that which is annoying but manageable.

Can someone please explain the difference between settings 2 (AE lock/AF) and 4 (AE/AF, no AE lock) of Custom Function 10 (Shutter/AE lock button). I can't decide between the two.
 
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