Airshow Photography. DSLR?

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MarkG

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I'm hoping to get enclosure tickets for this year's RIAT (here's hoping it doesn't get rained off again), and this, among other things, has lead me to look around the camera market. That has lead me here.

I currently have a Canon S3 IS (Bridge). It's fine for general-purpose, like all compacts it has the usual issues (ISO noise, fringing, etc.). I've tried photography at airshows before and failed miserably (save the odd lucky shot). I just don't know if it's the camera, or me, or both. Usually I either miss the shot entirely, or get a plane-shaped silhouette (lack of shadow detail).

Trouble is, I don't have a particularly good eye for photography (artistically and physically - I'm partially sighted). I'd rate myself as a reasonable holiday snapper, and I'm not scared of using full manual on the S3 if circumstances demand, but that's it. I don't want to start blowing £100s on new kit only to find that the problem was me all along and I've just wasted my money, but I am prepared to spend if that's what it takes.

So, is it all technique or is it worth my while getting new equipment, and if so, what? Budget £1000-ish for everything required (including post-processing), and 2nd hand is fine with me. It'll be replacing the S3 as my main camera so that would need to be factored in.

PS - I was looking at the Panasonic DMC-GH1 primarily because I assumed I'd need Live View a lot, and thought I'd really like the HD movie mode. Having used (and got on well with) the viewfinder on a 450D, and seen what tends to happen when you shoot HD on a DSLR ('Jello-vision'), I'm not so sure on both counts. Something far more established may better suit my needs.
 
For airshow photography I would say you are going to need some decent glass, £1000ish for a 70-200 L.

As for body, I would recommend anything in the semi-professional range (xxD)
 
That's going to fall outside my budget, and given that I'm very definitely in the newbie category, L glass is probably pushing things too.

I know I'm not going to get super professional images - usable would be a good start.
 
DarrenToogood said:
For airshow photography I would say you are going to need some decent glass, £1000ish for a 70-200 L.

As for body, I would recommend anything in the semi-professional range (xxD)
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I seem to remember establishing with you on a previous thread that you don't need to spend all that on top notch gear, especially not when making the move the a DSLR system from bridge.

Mark, I'm not big into air shows (I'm Army, the RAF can take a running jump :D) but if it's your first DSLR then (looking at the Nikon system, I don't know Canon) I'd say don't go for anything more than a D90. You'll want a lens with a decent throw on it, but I'll bet you could get away with a 200 and some cropping. If you can stretch Sigma do a 28-300 for around £250. That should all fit your budget too. If you're feeling more confident a mint condition second hand D200 is around £500 (which will be by next purchase in the coming months, putting my D40 to a back up), though the D90 reportedly handles noise much better than the D200.

Don'r rule out Olympus either...though I did switch from Oly to Nikon :lol:
 
I'm hoping to do waddington this year and will be using a D60 with a sigma 100-300 f4 and a 1.4 tc(if I can sell my 2x). Even though you are new to the site you can still buy from the classified section, bought at a fair price you could still sell on the equipment if your not happy with it without losing too much.

Your budget would also get you a D90 body and a 70-300 nikon VR if you bought them used.
 
foggy4ever said:
Your budget would also get you a D90 body and a 70-300 nikon VR if you bought them used.
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You could buy them new for not too much over a grand. Look at it as an invesment...:D

Oh, and 70-300 VR...[/drool]

EDIT: Buy a D90 body and 70-300 from WEX and it'd come in just under £1050, of cpurse than would mean you 70-300 would be your only lens though. The standard 17-55 kit lens is around £150 I believe.
 
I would say that any entry level DSLR would be a good place to start. A Sony A200 with kit lens will come in at under £300 and add the Sigma 70-300 APO, a very well regarded lens, for around £180 and you're ready to go for less than £500. I really don't think you have to splash out on expensive glass.
 
Good to have the Sony input too :) Now all we need is a Canon user who isn't going to say blow the whole budget on one lens :p

Fabs...I have a tattoo like your avatar :lol:
 
I've had my tattoo since 2004...how long you had your avatar? :suspect:

Just to throw another idea in, a D40 body (though recently discontinued) with a selection of lenses, bag, cards etc is another possibility.
 
Canon user here o/

I did Waddington Airshow some years back with a 10D - AF was not the quickest on that camera and yet I had no problems with AF speed - so something such as a Canon 450D or if you can stretch a 40D will be more than enough.
Make sure your budget includes a 70-300 lens though (stabilised if possible) - this will be your mainstay for the displays.

DarrenToogood said:
For airshow photography I would say you are going to need some decent glass, £1000ish for a 70-200 L.

(xxD)
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Rubbish on two counts.
1. 200mm is rarely enough for airshow photography
2. You don't need to spend lots of money on glass, a nice 300mm IS/VR will do nicely and Sigmas APO offering will also work fine.
 
ChrisMClark said:
I've had my tattoo since 2004...how long you had your avatar? :suspect:

Just to throw another idea in, a D40 body (though recently discontinued) with a selection of lenses, bag, cards etc is another possibility.
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OK you win! :D

Yes, the D40 is a good option. There are plenty of decent bodies and lenses out there that can get you up and running well within the OP's budget, which is quite decent when compared to many "What camera" threads.
 
Very true. Only thing is how quickly you outgrow a D40. I'm looking for a D200 second hand already, I only got rid of my Oly and bought the D40 a couple of months ago. Though I'll be keeping the D40 as a second body.
 
to answer the silhouette problem i thinks its to do with metering and you are meant to use spot metering (correct me if im wrong) i would say you should get a 1000D and then by a nice siggy telephoto around the 300mm or more mark.
 
Thought about Sony. I have a couple of Sony cameras in my history (DSCP200 and F717). There's the whole 'buying into a system' to consider (see, I have been reading other threads) which is where the Nikon/Canon brands are pretty much undisputed champions.

I'd be worried with the D40 limiting options due to the lack of in-body AF motor. If I was going to go Nikon I'd be inclined to go at least one step up their range to avoid that, though I may just be being paranoid.

I did note the pair of 40Ds in the For Sale section here (though at least one had an offer on it already). It's definitely an option and the price seems comparable with new 450D. I do have the problem with lack of experience of the 2nd hand market though, and I'd still need glass.
 
Done some reading, and there's two possible issues with the A200:

  • I'm left eyed, so there's a risk my proboscis will interfere with the AF/OK button.
  • No Live View. While I intend to use the viewfinder as much as possible, my eyesight means live view is a very good idea.
The A300 fixes the live view issue, but I haven't checked if my olfactory organ will still get in the way. :)
 
MarkG said:
Done some reading, and there's two possible issues with the A200:

  • I'm left eyed, so there's a risk my proboscis will interfere with the AF/OK button.
  • No Live View. While I intend to use the viewfinder as much as possible, my eyesight means live view is a very good idea.
The A300 fixes the live view issue, but I haven't checked if my olfactory organ will still get in the way. :)
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I'm left eyed and I use an A700, I believe the AF button is in the same place on all the Sony DSLRs. I have never had a problem in this regard, my nose actually just touched the bottom right hand corner of the LCD screen.
 
Reassuring on the nose issue, thanks. I'll be trying before buying anyway so either it works or it doesn't. A300 looks like the best out of the A200/A300/A350 options. Found one with 18-70 and 55-200 for £574 which seems reasonable, though I'll be looking for a longer lens. I haven't seen much about how successful the in-camera IS is.

PsiFox, those look great. I'd be delighted if I got one shot even close to that good. Price of the lens is pretty damn reasonable too.

Is there any reliable way to differentiate one brand from another because right now I have 4 brands on the table and don't know which way to turn. I'd certainly like to keep future upgrade options in mind as I know what a money-pit this hobby is likely to be.
 
MarkG said:
While I intend to use the viewfinder as much as possible, my eyesight means live view is a very good idea.[/list]
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if you want to use LiveView whilst shooting moving subjects such as aircraft then currently the A300/A350 have the best LiveView implementation for that as they maintain normal phase detect AF in LiveView whereas the others switch to slower contrast detect.
Also imo the new Sony 70-400mm G SSM surpasses the Canon 100-400mm IS L as the best (reasonably affordable) allround lens for aviation photography.
 
Thanks, valid points. I do prefer the viewfinder for object tracking. Maybe that's because it really is easier, or because the typical LCD on a compact isn't up to that job.

I'd still be interested in the brand question though - that, I think, has been my major problem from the start. I've got myself rather hung up on the Nikon/Canon bandwagon (i.e. there must be some reason that virtually every professional you see is carrying around something with a Canon or Nikon badge on it).

In any event, thanks. I have some considerable food for thought and I'll admit that this has gone in a different direction than I anticipated.

Edit - one other question. If I do go the Sony route, I'll still need lenses. Are there any that are particularly good (for the budget), or stinkers that I should stay well away from? I'll be looking for 2-3 lenses that cover a good range from wide/macro to telephoto.

I'll need CF cards too, and accessories.
 
MarkG said:
Thanks, valid points. I do prefer the viewfinder for object tracking. Maybe that's because it really is easier, or because the typical LCD on a compact isn't up to that job.

I'd still be interested in the brand question though - that, I think, has been my major problem from the start. I've got myself rather hung up on the Nikon/Canon bandwagon (i.e. there must be some reason that virtually every professional you see is carrying around something with a Canon or Nikon badge on it).

In any event, thanks. I have some considerable food for thought and I'll admit that this has gone in a different direction than I anticipated.
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Remember that the A300 and 350 have made the view finder a bit cramped to accommodate live view compared to the A200, its documented in a few reviews online.

however if you use live view more than the viewfinder then definitely worth getting 300/350.

From a newbie whos just bought a A200 and got some cheap tamron 55-200, im blown away by the value for money.
 
Didn't know what, so I'll have to check that one out. Photography 'manuals' always say use the viewfinder first (for good reason), and I intend to do my best to do just that, but there are cases where I still need and use live view. I was blown away by the quality of the viewfinder on the EOS 450D. Granted it's not the best, but it is now my benchmark.
 
Mark, it looks like the Sonyites have descended on you! :lol: In answer to your canon/nikon question, they have been in the SLR game for a number of decades whereas Sony produced their first ever SLR less than three years ago. But they are catching up very fast given Sony's long pedigree in the electronics market. That said, if you feel that the big twos' current market standing is drwaing you towards their products then try their models out and you may well feel that they are the better option.

As for lenses, yes, the range from canon/nikon are much larger but the Sonys are growing rapidly and the third party lenses are great quality and value for money. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you and most important of all, enjoy!
 
Personally I would forget the lens for the moment, hot foot it down to your nearest photographic retailer and handle all the cameras available. Find the one that feels best for you then decide from there.

All the models will have something lens wise in one form or another for whichever you pick.
 
Now I have always been a Nikon user however there are some very good deals around at the moment for Sony with 2 lenses included

See www.camerapricebuster.co.uk
Having said that as already said the important factor is to go and handle the various bodies and see which feel best to you, both in physically holding the bodies which will be different in size and the layout of controls.
 
fabs said:
Mark, it looks like the Sonyites have descended on you! :lol: In answer to your canon/nikon question, they have been in the SLR game for a number of decades whereas Sony produced their first ever SLR less than three years ago. But they are catching up very fast given Sony's long pedigree in the electronics market. That said, if you feel that the big twos' current market standing is drwaing you towards their products then try their models out and you may well feel that they are the better option.

As for lenses, yes, the range from canon/nikon are much larger but the Sonys are growing rapidly and the third party lenses are great quality and value for money. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you and most important of all, enjoy!
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Also Sony have a lot of Minolta's expertise on board.
 
Thanks all.

There's a couple of camera stores in town - the usual chain and an independent(ish). Not sure if either have the full range but I'll go and investigate tomorrow. The sooner I get an idea of what I want, the sooner I can get it and start practicing.

The biggest problem I see right now is likely to be the smaller viewfinder on the A300, but we'll see how that goes in practice.

Unfortunately a problem has interfered with plans in that I may need the money elsewhere (my roof is leaking - again). I'm hoping my insurance will cover it though (again).
 
I had a go at my first airshow with a Dslr last year with my D40, but at 6mp's it wasnt up to much cropping.
And i'm itching to have a go with the D90 now, i have a 70-300mm Nikon lens but it wouldn't auto-focus
on the D40 so i stuck with my 55-200Vr.

I'm never going to see the colour of the pilots eyes with what i have and without throwing vast amounts
of money at it but i was quite happy with the results i got...

3479771386_a01d19d4fa_o.jpg
 
My vote is for a used Canon 40D with a (used if possible) 55-250 IS. They should get you off to a good start, and if you decide you don't like it you shouldnt lose any money when you sell them on.
 
The 40D was a route I was seriously considering, and probably still will be if I decide I don't like the Sony option. I know I do like the 450D. Just hope there's one available when I make my mind up (and get the roof fixed).

Haven't looked at prices on the 55-250 IS, but I'd definitely want IS and the zoom range seems ideal.
 
I paid £220 for my 55-250IS at London Camera Exchange in Chester a few months ago. I've got a 400D and a 40D, and a friend of mine has a 450D. The 40D definately has the upper hand in autofocus and burst speeds in my experience :).
 
The 450D/40D also has the upper hand in that it'll take all my SD/SDHC cards (I have about 32GB worth of those). I'll have to buy new with the Sony. Most of my photographic friends also have Canon kit.

There's a London Camera Exchange in Reading. Good suggestion to have a look in there.
 
The 40D takes compact flash only. LCE gives about the best service you can get around my neck of the woods.
 
My bad. I've been reading too many camera reviews recently. :)
 
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