Agitation methods

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Mads
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Hello great and good filmies, I have need to pick the hive mind once more...
Since I started developing I've always agitated for the first 30 seconds, then two inversions every 30 seconds until the times up.
I've recently bought the massive dev chart app and it says to invert for ten seconds every minute, instead of twice every 30 seconds. Is there an advantage of one over the other?

I find my black and white tends to be quite high contrast, is this a result of over agitation?

Cheers guys
 
The main reason i see for agitation, is to get air bubbles off of the film. Not sure the amount of agitation has anything to do with contrast. hth mike.
 
I agitate for the first minute (not sure why, I could be doing it wrong!) and then for ten seconds every minute after that. I don't do inversions though as I find it makes a mess, so I use the "twisty stick".
 
The main reason i see for agitation, is to get air bubbles off of the film. .

Agitation is to ensure that the developer is evenly distributed across the whole surface of the films emulsion by ensuring that the developing chemical doesn't accumulate in the bottom of the diluted solution,
To rid air bubbles from the surface of the film, the developing tank is generally tapped on a suitable surface ( worktop or similar)


As to Mads questions.

Excess agitation will increase grain if one has a want for that specific effect.

Personally I add developer solution, tap the tank to remove air bubbles ( so as to ensure the bubbles don't restrict contact between chemical and emulsion), then invert 6 times.

Every full minute thereafter, I invert ( and turn) the tank 3 times, then again leaving a full minute.

As this is a standard method that i adopt ( for all my film developing except semi-stand), I wouldn't like to say if agitating more vigerously or more often will increase contrast.
I've had contrasty results but they've been brought about simply by shooting sharp contrasty scenes or using different emulsions such as Ilford Pan F / XP2, bth i found very contrasty compared to other brands
 
Without agitation developer gets exhausted in areas of high exposure and bromide builds up leading to lower contrast and sometimes odd edge effects. This is sometimes used in stand development in dilute solutions to deliberately reduce contrast or to allow correction of gross under or over exposure. Agitating too frequently or violently will increase contrast and also cause streaking knowing as 'bromide drag'. Different developers have different recommendations for agitation, if in doubt look at the manufacturers literature rather than anecdotal references. *Of course there are times when not obeying the rules works, but better to start from a known basis.

*(And this from someone who sometimes uses a mix of painkillers, drain cleaner and wine bottle sterilizer as a developer :) )
 
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Agitation serves two principal functions.
1 ) the most important is to ensure fresh deveper contacts the surface throughout the process.
2) to ensure that any debris and bubbles do not block the contact of film with developer.

How it should be done is a many part answer.
Up to the 80's and before many studios owned their own processing machinery
The most used developing method used by professionals for roll film and sheet film was by using 3gallon tanks with stainless cages and film holders or ss reels.
in all cases the agitation was by completely lifting the cage clear of the developer and returning it to the developer.
then importantly banging the cage sharply against the tank a couple of times to shift bubbles.

how often this should all be done is not that important. But it should be regular and always done exactly the same.

stand development was used as a method to increase shadow detail whilst holding back highlights , but more often used to increase edge sharpness when using thin slow films with dilute one shot developers. (It creats edges very like digital unsharp masking, and taken to extremes with complete halo lines.)
Stand development works because the dilute developer soon become exhausted by the dense highlights, so ceases to work on them. The shadows in the mean time have plenty of chemical agent left and will continue to develop. At the edges there is a migration of developer ftom the shadows to the highlights, giving the typical edge effect.
Some agitation is needed but will largely depend on the equipment and skill of the photographer to get an even result.

After 1952, when I discovered stainless reels, I never used plastic ones again Plastic reels are the invention of the devil and are the main cause of uneven development, streeks, scratches, stress marks, contamination, fingerprints and buckled film. In a race with a fellow professional I once loaded twelve 120 film reels in the time he was still on his third patterson one.




Like many chemical processes development is time and temperature critical. From a photographic point of view this time produces the required gamma or contrast. This is more important than the secondary density. ( density will be correct if the exposure given was correct) it is bad practice to lenghten development to increase density, as this will also add contrast block highlights and increase graineness.

for those that do not know metal reels are wound on from the inside out.
they never become stuck as they never need be pushed along plastic grooves.
 
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I use a Jobo for B/W and decrease the dev part by 15% with continuous agitation. Is this right or wrong ?
 
I recall doing a b&w photography course many years ago and the single biggest surprise was the many different ways that people carried out agitation. I was always a fairly gentle soul, but some of them were really shaking the tanks and banging them off the bench every time to remove bubbles. I pretty much settled on Asha's method of inverting and turning the tank in the same movement, but consistency in what you do is a big thing in achieving repeatable results.
 
Thanks for the replies guys, I'm mostly asking because I'm finding I'm getting results a bit more contrasty than I want, and I half remembered hearing that vigorous agitation can be the cause of that, so I figured I'd ask those in the know :)
 
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