Affording to become a wedding photographer...!

[Devoted Lens]

I am at a stage with my photography where I believe I have the base skills and knowledge to try my hardest to break into the wedding photography scene. I've agreed to do my sister in law's reception in September, as they are on a budget and weren't going to have any photos done, and so I've said I'll do it for free and if they're not happy with the photos that's the risk they take (they're fine with this, as I say they were going to have no photography at all). This of course will allow me to start building a portfolio, and it is my intention to do this a few times whilst working full time to ensure I can build up a portfolio slowly.

However, between now and September I want to upgrade from my basic Sony a390 DSLR and lenses, to a Canon EOS 5D Mark III or IV, and also intend to buy the Canon 70-200mm IS, possibly an 85mm 1.8, 35mm 1.4 50mm 1.4 and something like a Sigma 105mm 2.8 or ring shots etc. Having been to camera centre UK for a quote, that lot comes in at the best part of 10 grand!

My questions:

1) Do I need all of these lenses or are there any listed there that I should wait to get until such a time as I've managed to fully establish? What are the essential, no compromise lenses!

2) How on earth did any of you afford to get yourselves started in this business? I can afford the equipment but that is a lot of cash to expend with no guarantees of a financial return, and it makes me very nervous.

 

[jamesev]

I am at a stage with my photography where I believe I have the base skills and knowledge to try my hardest to break into the wedding photography scene. I've agreed to do my sister in law's reception in September, as they are on a budget and weren't going to have any photos done, and so I've said I'll do it for free and if they're not happy with the photos that's the risk they take (they're fine with this, as I say they were going to have no photography at all). This of course will allow me to start building a portfolio, and it is my intention to do this a few times whilst working full time to ensure I can build up a portfolio slowly.

However, between now and September I want to upgrade from my basic Sony a390 DSLR and lenses, to a Canon EOS 5D Mark III or IV, and also intend to buy the Canon 70-200mm IS, possibly an 85mm 1.8, 35mm 1.4 50mm 1.4 and something like a Sigma 105mm 2.8 or ring shots etc. Having been to camera centre UK for a quote, that lot comes in at the best part of 10 grand!

My questions:

1) Do I need all of these lenses or are there any listed there that I should wait to get until such a time as I've managed to fully establish? What are the essential, no compromise lenses!

2) How on earth did any of you afford to get yourselves started in this business? I can afford the equipment but that is a lot of cash to expend with no guarantees of a financial return, and it makes me very nervous.

I suspect many had the basic equipment already for wedding photography and have expanded as experience is gained. Wedding photography is a complex niche as it’s a one shot arena with contracts etc.

 

[GreenNinja67]

No you don't need all these lenses.

And you need to be able to completely master the new camera before you're thrown into a pressurized situation like a wedding / reception.

You'll be fine with a 24-70 and the 70-200.

In fact I know photographers wo only use a 35 & an 85.

You may need a flash for outside fill / balancing light too.

 

[troutfisher]

I used to know a wedding tog ( well a wannabee but that was lack of marketing skill, he could not sell himself) he had a pair of Canon 5DMk2's one with 24-70 2.8 and the other with a 70-200 2.8 and a couple of 580 EX flashes .
The weddings he did were fine , he just did not get many bookings

 

[T_J_G]

No you don't need all these lenses.

And you need to be able to completely master the new camera before you're thrown into a pressurized situation like a wedding / reception.

You'll be fine with a 24-70 and the 70-200.

In fact I know photographers wo only use a 35 & an 85.

You may need a flash for outside fill / balancing light too.

I only use a 35/85 have a 20 in the bag but rarely use it. Don’t forget to have at least one backup camera.

Don’t forget you’ll need to pay for insurances, advertising, example albums, website etc as well.

And your equipment can be put as a business cost, so speak to an accountant when you setup.

 

[Devoted Lens]

No you don't need all these lenses.

And you need to be able to completely master the new camera before you're thrown into a pressurized situation like a wedding / reception.

You'll be fine with a 24-70 and the 70-200.

In fact I know photographers wo only use a 35 & an 85.

You may need a flash for outside fill / balancing light too.

So are you recommending to only have a 24-70 & 70-200? Or are you saying a 35 & 85 is all that's needed?

As for a flash I have my eye on a decent one for less than £250 so that's not a concern. I can't afford to shell out more than about 3 grand total on glass though at this early stage.

 

[Devoted Lens]

And your equipment can be put as a business cost, so speak to an accountant when you setup.

Are you allowed to set up a business whilst already employed by someone? Probably a daft question but it has to be asked. If so I could set up my own business as a means to obtaining the equipment cheaply, and then essentially in my first couple of years I would be making no profit, so would the glass stay under allowance expenses and not have to be paid for?

 

[MatBin]

So are you recommending to only have a 24-70 & 70-200? Or are you saying a 35 & 85 is all that's needed?

As for a flash I have my eye on a decent one for less than £250 so that's not a concern. I can't afford to shell out more than about 3 grand total on glass though at this early stage.

You buy the kit to suit your style, or get a couple of zooms and bash away until you find your style, most punters wouldnt know the difference anyway.
Will your Sony lenses fit anything, mirrorless etc, dont know what you have or the brand, so cant advise if you can salvage some of your existing kit.
Why not use it at the reception, see if your photos are any good and upgrade after that if you start to get work.

 

[T_J_G]

Are you allowed to set up a business whilst already employed by someone? Probably a daft question but it has to be asked. If so I could set up my own business as a means to obtaining the equipment cheaply, and then essentially in my first couple of years I would be making no profit, so would the glass stay under allowance expenses and not have to be paid for?

You can register as a sole trader whilst employed yes. As for the second part speak to an accountant.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Are you allowed to set up a business whilst already employed by someone? Probably a daft question but it has to be asked. If so I could set up my own business as a means to obtaining the equipment cheaply, and then essentially in my first couple of years I would be making no profit, so would the glass stay under allowance expenses and not have to be paid for?

Well you still have to pay for anything. But if you make a loss you may be eligible for a tax rebate from your day job.

I started with a 24-70 and 70-200. Ditched both of them for primes, the 70-200 is far too long for a wedding anyway unless you're going to sit around the edges and take images of loads of individual people.

 

[stevelmx5]

So are you recommending to only have a 24-70 & 70-200? Or are you saying a 35 & 85 is all that's needed?

What lenses do you shot with now and what style of photography do you enjoy? There are no hard and fast rules for what lenses you need to shoot a wedding, in the same way there aren't any to shoot landcapes, street, studio portraits or sports. You need to decide what lenses you like to use and the style of wedding photography you are aiming to deliver then go from there.

The last wedding I shot using a Nikon D750 / 28-70 2.8 / 50 1.8 along with a Sony A6000 / 50 1.8 / 70-200 4 / Samyang 12/2 and had no issues covering all of the shots I wanted to deliver. Prior to that I've used similar kit from Canon (5D/40D) with no issues either.

 

[GTG]

I knew a wedding photographer who said he did 280+ weddings with a 70-200L F4 IS which are about £500 used.

He had other lenses but my point is you don't need the best latest version of everything that will rack up the thousands you are talking about

 

[Mark twiglet]

I shoot with two nikon fx cameras 1 with a 24-70 2.8 and other with 80-200mm and One with flash! Plenty of batteries and sd cards

 

[AMcUK]

Are you allowed to set up a business whilst already employed by someone? Probably a daft question but it has to be asked. If so I could set up my own business as a means to obtaining the equipment cheaply, and then essentially in my first couple of years I would be making no profit, so would the glass stay under allowance expenses and not have to be paid for?

Yes - you can set up as Sole Trader, you just need to tell HMRC and submit an extra page on your Self Assessment. I'd be surprised if they allowed you to offset a loss in your trading against your main PAYE unless you could demonstrate some income from that business.

You can also set up a Limited company and do it that way - with a significant turn over you can register for VAT and claim it back on purchases but that means you'd have to charge VAT to your customers putting your prices up 20% to the public probably not wise on Weddings.
VAT businesses don't care as they also claim it back. You're best speaking to an accountant for that one, it's not that complicated but it does cost money and require some admin.

The one thing you should check first is your current employment contract, some prohibit second jobs or second jobs that could be seen as a conflict of interest. Make sure your current boss is OK with your hobby job.

If you're considering this seriously then I would see what advice there is for local business set up from the council etc. HRMC were helpful when I registered as Sole trader and there was a 1/2 day "starting your own business" course they ran for free than was very helpful in understanding what you could and couldn't account for in the business and how to make sure your first tax return isn't a horrible shock

 

[KIPAX]

However, between now and September I want to upgrade from my basic Sony a390 DSLR and lenses, to a Canon EOS 5D Mark III or IV,.

OK someones going to ask so it may as well be me......Whats your plan if you arrive for the couples big day and your camera doesn't work. for whatever reason...

 

[Devoted Lens]

OK someones going to ask so it may as well be me......Whats your plan if you arrive for the couples big day and your camera doesn't work. for whatever reason...

Planning on keeping the Sony as my backup camera and lenses, as whilst basic compared to my desired upgrade it is still a good camera and capable of taking a very good picture once you know what you're doing with it.

 

[Project Valentine]

I shot my first weddings on a canon 7D with a 24-70. I'd look at getting a used 5D mark iii and a used 24-70. Get 2 godox flashes so you can do some off camera flash stuff and keep a body as a backup just in case. You will find other lenses down the line once the money comes in but I had no issues shooting a wedding on a 24-70. Wide enough to get the bigger group shots and smaller rooms and tight enough for speeches and the service.

I know use the Fuji XT2 cameras with an 18mm, 35mm and 75mm. I have a 50mm and 135mm but don't use those that much unless they're really needed. The gear won't make you a better photographer, shooting as much as you can will Start small and grow from there. Good luck buddy!!

 

[Devoted Lens]

What lenses do you shot with now and what style of photography do you enjoy? There are no hard and fast rules for what lenses you need to shoot a wedding, in the same way there aren't any to shoot landcapes, street, studio portraits or sports. You need to decide what lenses you like to use and the style of wedding photography you are aiming to deliver then go from there.

The last wedding I shot using a Nikon D750 / 28-70 2.8 / 50 1.8 along with a Sony A6000 / 50 1.8 / 70-200 4 / Samyang 12/2 and had no issues covering all of the shots I wanted to deliver. Prior to that I've used similar kit from Canon (5D/40D) with no issues either.

To be honest the only proper photography I've ever done has been through work as a CSI, a role I no longer practice, but all of that is relatively basic - quartering a room and photographing exhibits, and most of the technical side comes in on getting the lighting right and the images in focus. Courts aren't interested in art, just facts!

But I am attracted to landscape photography as a fun side, and wedding and portrait photography as work...I lack experience in all three fields. I've photographed friends a few times using a 70-200mm and I love that lens, but I think weddings are a while different ballgame as there's so many different types of shots to squeeze into one day.

Thank you all for your fantastic advice, it is quite evident an abundance of glass is a nicety, not a requirement.

 

[chris malcolm]

A much cheaper way of putting an exploratory toe or few into the wedding photography water would be to stick with the camera and lenses you have, and get a compatible upgraded body such as a Sony A68 or A77ii. Those are crop sensor like your current camera. You don't mention what lenses you already have, my guess is that at least two will be crop sensor lenses. If you want to replace them you could go full frame with an A99ii. You'll get a better sensor than the Canon, plus extras like a fully articulating screen.

 

[riddell]

1) Do I need all of these lenses or are there any listed there that I should wait to get until such a time as I've managed to fully establish? What are the essential, no compromise lenses!

2) How on earth did any of you afford to get yourselves started in this business? I can afford the equipment but that is a lot of cash to expend with no guarantees of a financial return, and it makes me very nervous.

1] Absolutely. You need those lenses and more. I've shot hundreds of weddings all on a Canon 1 series. I constantly use a 24-105L, and a 100-300, but also use a 17-40L pretty often, and when you need it, its lens you can't do without, wide angle room shots, big group shots. I've been totally backed into a corner and been forced to use that lens many times. a 50mm 1.2 Is often needed later in the evening for when the lights go down, first dance and disco shots and my 105mm macro gets quite a bit of use too for small detail shots such as the rings.

on top of this don't forget you need two bodies, two flash guns, at least 3 or 4 batteries and a whole bunch of cards, plus backups of all everything else, including cables. Its not going to harm to have some filters, a tripod and few other bits of kit with you for when you really need them for various tricky situations.

2] You have to spend money to make money, and you have to charge decent rates. One of the biggest mistakes new photographers make is to charge pathetically low rates that don't cover even basic expenses like like, travel and batteries and certainly doesn;t cover all the huge amount of time you'll spend chatting with the couple beforehand and then all the time sorting / editing and so on.

Everything in photography is expensive. You need to be good to get plenty of work and charge decent rates to be both able to live off the earnings and also pay all your business expenses, travel, insurance, equipment.

 

[Craigus]

Don't forget a second body in case your main one dies.

Equipment is probably only a small percentage of the total investment you'd need when you take into account marketing and insurance etc

 

[holty]

shoot a couple of weddings as a secong tog and you will soon learn if the lens's you use are what is required i.e. to long to short
when you ask questions like yours are you really ready for this type of photography i think not
you really need experiance before you start on this journey or you will be sued when it goes tits up
because you didn't have a spare body or 1 of the cards went corrupt etc etc

 

[Phil V]

There’s 3 ways of looking at this quandary:

What’s the minimum you need
What’s the best for business
What suits your shooting style

Loads of wedding photographers used to consider a 24-70 and 70-200 zooms to be good for everything

Many people shoot with 2 primes, 35 and 85 aren’t massively expensive

I wouldn’t want a completely different system for backup

With your budget I’d buy (all S/h) a 35 Art and a 135 f2, and a pair of 6d’s

Should leave enough left for a couple of Godox flashguns a 50 and 85 for redundancy.

But to be honest, you’re dreaming if you have no experience of shooting people under pressure, you’re looking into diving into a high pressure environment you have no idea you’ll be capable of or enjoy. Don’t get me wrong, it’s great fun, but it’s far from easy. And I know loads of people who only ever shot 1.

But Nikon D750s might be a better bet, if you’ve not settled on Canon yet.

 

[stevelmx5]

To be honest the only proper photography I've ever done has been through work as a CSI, a role I no longer practice, but all of that is relatively basic - quartering a room and photographing exhibits, and most of the technical side comes in on getting the lighting right and the images in focus. Courts aren't interested in art, just facts!

But I am attracted to landscape photography as a fun side, and wedding and portrait photography as work...I lack experience in all three fields. I've photographed friends a few times using a 70-200mm and I love that lens, but I think weddings are a while different ballgame as there's so many different types of shots to squeeze into one day.

Thank you all for your fantastic advice, it is quite evident an abundance of glass is a nicety, not a requirement.

As per all of the responses, as expected, we will all give you different suggestions as we all shoot differently.

How about you shoot your sisters’ reception with the kit you have now and see if you actually enjoy doing it before opening the wallet? While you’ve got the opportunity to shoot in a more relaxed setting (family) and you’re not taking any money for it, see how it goes and if it’s something you want to do again!

 

[Mark twiglet]

Second tog first ...... you might say not doing that ever again

 

[TGphoto]

Second tog first ...... you might say not doing that ever again

That’s my plan!

Going to get in touch with a few locally. See if I can help out in any way, even if it’s just carrying stuff for a day and then build up a bit of trust to let me second shoot. I’d plan to do this several times before shooting a wedding myself.

 

[Box Brownie]

@Devoted Lens

You have had the insight from the very experienced guys here at TP.

But let me give you just one bit of insight that I do not think has been mentioned and sorry if I have missed it.

You mention that it it is your sister-in-laws wedding reception so the groom is your brother? No pressure then! You mention that you have discussed 'what you can offer and the possible quality of the results....' and she/they are AOK about that.

Insight for your consideration:-

1. It has oft been said that it is hard to be both a guest and the official photographer!
   
   
2. Though not a wedding I was asked to photograph the Ruby Wedding Party of one of my SWMBO oldest friends (NB as a result I have known them in excess of 30 years) but I knew hardly any of the other guests so to be busy and not some sort of party gooseberry suited me
   I like you made it clear to them that I did not often photograph people
   I put my position and experience in writing and got their written reply ~ this I did to be sure to manage their expectations as to what I hoped to achieve.
   
   
3. On the day nothing quite went according to plan in that the meet & greet was fragmented and a tad disjointed (i.e. not the guests arriving sort imagery I had in my head)
   So it went more along the lines of a what I see as a photojournalistic style punctuated with some set standards of groups, cake cutting, speeches etc.
   
   
4. Because I wanted to give them the very best I could achieve I spent approx 10 hours in PP and created image files for printing and the same set saved as suitable for web sharing/emailing

I was pleased that they were delighted with the results and they ended up getting a bound digital photo album printed, this looked good but one niggle I had was that they included some other shots from other folk...............why was I niggled. Well, the quality of those images detracted from the quality of the files I gave them.....................I would have been more than happy to (with the other picture takers permission) PP'ed them as needed to try to give them a lift but c'est la vie.

Therefore, think very carefully about what you are doing. Oh, unless you hand the camera over or are photographed by other guests you will not be in any of the pictures.

Lastly, I had one body & lens ~ my Canon 5D3 with the 24-105mm zoom plus my 430EX flash with a Rogue light modifier.

PS Would I want to do anything as intense as that again, NO though taking the odd family pictures are fine

 

[Devoted Lens]

shoot a couple of weddings as a secong tog and you will soon learn if the lens's you use are what is required i.e. to long to short
when you ask questions like yours are you really ready for this type of photography i think not
you really need experiance before you start on this journey or you will be sued when it goes tits up
because you didn't have a spare body or 1 of the cards went corrupt etc etc

Yeah I have a couple of duties as second shooter lined up which will undoubtedly be of enormous benefit. And hey, everyone has to start somewhere don't they? You can't just wake up ready. I am going to make myself ready by researching, asking questions, getting experience....the wedding is not until September. The fact is I have chosen to ask the stupid questions here rather than some other medium, knowing that most people will encourage and not seek to put down or critique........

 

[GTG]

You could always advertise to do it free of charge at first to get your foot in the door ( or Church )

I'm not sure but if its unpaid would you need insurance because you are effectively just a guy taking photos like everyone else.

 

[Mark twiglet]

The biggest problem I see is if something does go wrong......... if it was a normal photoshoot you could do it again tomorrow if camera broke or Card corrupted or battery went flat! It’s family and can’t do a wedding again ........

I’m not trying to put you off !!!! I’ve fallen out with family and not spoken to my brother for over a year cos I forgot his sons birthday card! I’m not gonna offer to shoot his wedding !!!! Lol

 

[KIPAX]

The biggest problem I see is if something does go wrong......... if it was a normal photoshoot you could do it again tomorrow if camera broke or Card corrupted or battery went flat! It’s family and can’t do a wedding again ........

I’m not trying to put you off !!!! I’ve fallen out with family and not spoken to my brother for over a year cos I forgot his sons birthday card! I’m not gonna offer to shoot his wedding !!!! Lol

hasn't he answerd this in post 16 ? you must have seen it when you where reading the thread ?

 

[Mark twiglet]

hasn't he answerd this in post 16 ? you must have seen it when you where reading the thread ?

My observation made no reference post 16 ! Mine was to disappointed family and possible fallout

 

[KIPAX]

My observation made no reference post 16 ! Mine was to disappointed family and possible fallout

You just p sted about somehting going wrong with currupt cards or batteries. he answered that in post 16 saying he has backup equipment... I dont get why you posted about equipment problems unless you think first set and second set fail? then thats the same for everyone and a bit unlikly ?: )

 

[Mark twiglet]

Doing it for a paying client and it happening is unfortunate and possible backlash! But after 6 months things won’t be so bad!


Do it free for family member ...........


Am I the only person who can’t see the possible 20 year backlash ?

 

[holty]

i can see it
there are people looking through rose tinted glass's
just wait till it goes tits up or the lawyers letter comes in

 

[ancient_mariner]

Am I the only person who can’t see the possible 20 year backlash ?

If they're that bad then having them refuse to speak to you for 20 years is a bonus.

To the OP - lots of good advice here. Regarding lenses and cameras, they aren't half as important as some might think, provided you have something reasonably wide for group/indoor images, something a bit longer for portraits and something fastish for evening/low light/separating subject from background. IO did weddings 30 years ago using a medium format camera and 2 lenses equivalent to 28mm and 50mm, and if I were to do it again (not likely, but for the sake of argument) then I'd probably add a fast 85mm to that.

If your Sony lenses are OK then there's no reason to change to Canon, but you'd benefit from a more recent body. If you must swap systems then as Phil said, consider recent Nikon for the better sensors and wider dynamic range.

 

[Mark twiglet]

i can see it
there are people looking through rose tinted glass's
just wait till it goes tits up or the lawyers letter comes in

I’ve seen it happen! Doing it cheap or free is a recipe for disaster !

 

[holty]

your right on the money there

 

[ukaskew]

My way into weddings was shooting my sister's wedding 3 years ago. D600, Sigma 35mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8 and a D7100 backup, couldn't have been more than £1700 worth as it was all bought used.

30 weddings later I have a Sony a7Rii, Sony a7, 28mm f2, 55mm 1.8, 85mm 1.8 and a Sony flash. That lot just crept in under £3k and it's ridiculously capable, far more than I am.

£10k is insane, some of the most highly regarded wedding photographers in the country won't be carrying anywhere near that value of gear. Drop the £600 macro and buy a close up filter. The client won't know the difference and you've saved yourself hundreds of pounds and a load of extra weight in your bag.

Only you can decide what is essential. Maybe rent a 24-70 / 70-200 combo and see what focal lengths you actually end up using. If you're comfortable with primes try a 35 / 85 combo instead and then evaluate whether that's all you need.

I shot an entire wedding in November with my a7rii and 55mm 1.8, not through active planning, nothing else came out of the bag simply because everything fell into place at that length (very small venues). It' one of my favourite weddings to look back on photographically.

 

[KavKav]

Mate of mine came back a couple of weeks ago from a family wedding in Australia, the family hired a tog who took over 3,000 pictures and at the end of the day he handed the memory cards over and said “That will be A$4,500 (Just over £2,500) please”!

Is it me or what, but over £2,500 to a guy who must have just machine-gunned everything to get so many pics and then flipped over a few memory cards “Job done, thanks for the wedge, bysey bye” just leaves a few questions in my mind. I have asked my mate what the family thought of the pics but he has heard nothing yet.