Affinity Photo 2.0. 9th November?

SsSsSsSsSnake said:
Been a few posts after that from one of the moderators saying it may cause a problem when the patch comes out have you seen that Steve?
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Reading that thread on my phone I think I missed such a post exactly relating to @Sangoma (interim?) solution.

There was however a post regarding where the 'solution' is tied into the version number which would change but the core photo2.exe should not change!
 
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SsSsSsSsSnake said:
Been a few posts after that from one of the moderators saying it may cause a problem when the patch comes out have you seen that Steve?
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No, I didn't see that, however they are now doing something about it themselves, which is better :)
Don't think mine will be affected by any patches anyway :)
 
Serif do indeed appear to have listened and apparently have introduced a .exe alternative to the one that @Sangoma offered for their appraisal here (exact post in the thread)

forum.affinity.serif.com

Affinity Photo v2 .exe file location

forum.affinity.serif.com forum.affinity.serif.com

It seems that this is in advance of a more substantive solution that is anticipated for next week.

I don't think I will try their (interim) solution because so far I am content with the minor juggling I did but I wonder if they will re-package the product and 'give' us .exe products???

If I was cynical I could say they have been shamed into acting on this issue!!! But at least they are being responsive:)
 
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Box Brownie said:
Serif do indeed appear to have listened and apparently have introduced a .exe alternative to the one that @Sangoma offered for their appraisal here (exact post in the thread)

forum.affinity.serif.com

Affinity Photo v2 .exe file location

forum.affinity.serif.com forum.affinity.serif.com

It seems that this is in advance of a more substantive solution that is anticipated for next week.

I don't think I will try their (interim) solution because so far I am content with the minor juggling I did but I wonder if they will re-package the product and 'give' us .exe products???

If I was cynical I could say they have been shamed into acting on this issue!!! But at least they are being responsive:)
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Well, if by chance had any part in that, I guess I would have to admit it was intentional :)
 
Unfortunately they have been removed. I can understand why, however why could they not do it themselves?

"Thanks for trying to help but we CANNOT host EXEs made by customers on our forums in case they are malicious or are exchanged for malicious ones some time in the future. I understand that yours were likely fine but you must understand why we cannot have your hosted here, particularly when they are not digitally signed."
 
They would have to extensively test them, I imagine. That takes time.
 
The person who sent the message about the exe's in response to my saying I understood but it was a pity, as it seemed to be what most people wanted, responded that no doubt they could come up with the same sometime soon, so I sent him what I had used and hopefully if they think it is OK they can compile it themselves and sign it.
 
Sangoma said:
The person who sent the message about the exe's in response to my saying I understood but it was a pity, as it seemed to be what most people wanted, responded that no doubt they could come up with the same sometime soon, so I sent him what I had used and hopefully if they think it is OK they can compile it themselves and sign it.
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they might offer you a job :) are you anywhere near Nottingham :) yes you aren't far Coventry,im not far either Leicester, but they won't offer me a job :)
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
they might offer you a job :) are you anywhere near Nottingham :) yes you aren't far Coventry,im not far either Leicester, but they won't offer me a job :)
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No, what I did is neither very clever or original, just took a slightly different approach, which up until now seems OK.

The only reason I posted in detail what was said was to illustrate a refreshingly different attitude from them, which I appreciate, as I'm sure others do.
They are now trying instead of just passing it off to others.




I still think it was a mistake to package it as an app, for two main reasons.
Hardly anybody likes it, hardly anybody wants it, and I don't think that will change any time soon.
The other side is that writing the software is half the job. making it work with the OS is the other half! For many years Windows has become the harder OS (it wasn't before) and no doubt they spent (wasted) quite a bit of time on the app packaging, and they are not familiar with it, so user experiences have been quite negative, which has detracted from a good product.
Can you imaging the difference in response had they have made in install like a proper programme? :)

Microsoft have failed to push their "new look" since the failure of the original W10 UI. Their tablet is not a success nor was their phone.
They missed the bus on an "app store" and the reason that many windows users are windows users is because they can download programmes that install in an understood manner from any source.
This does allow some unwanted software to be installed, but that can and does happen with other systems as well.


Anyway, well done to Serif for listening and trying, I'm still hopeful for a proper installation package :)
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
So I wonder why they changed it? Seems a silly move to me
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I think that is the overwhelming opinion!

There are only two real complaints that I have seen anywhere, one the packaging as an app, and two due to that, the lack of an accessible exe file for other software to use.

If it wasn't for those, the forums etc would be mainly full of praise, unfortunately those are major issues for many people.

I got another message yesterday saying they would probably distribute something like mine with the first patch.
That will satisfy the most immediate needs.

A couple of others have tried my files and found they work correctly, so hopefully there might not be any system specific problems that turn up.
 
Sangoma said:
Posted by a mod "this will have an official technical solution based on sangoma's files"
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No disrespect intended Steve but I wonder what that will do for confidence in the designers of the product.
I mean a customer sorting out the problem with the software!
 
Sangoma said:
Posted by a mod "this will have an official technical solution based on sangoma's files"
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TP members influencing the world since 2022 (y)

What bothers me now, is, I wonder how many other V2's will be app based?
I hope any others will be thoroughly tested first!
 
gramps said:
No disrespect intended Steve but I wonder what that will do for confidence in the designers of the product.
I mean a customer sorting out the problem with the software!
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I don't think it should affect it, they are obviously very capable people, as I mentioned above, what I did was nothing special, but different, to get round certain issues that others were finding
It is likely that this might not occur to someone who has not had the problem before, and one of those things that when you see it seems obvious.

The problem was not with the software as such, but more with the fact that certain commands are acted on in different ways depending on how they are given, and this is not only a windows problem.

I'm sure they would have found it without me finding it, but they were caught by surprise and rejected a solution they had already suggested but it was used in a way it will not work
 
Sangoma said:
Anyway, well done to Serif for listening and trying, I'm still hopeful for a proper installation package :)
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.... As an outsider to the Affinity installation problems on the Windows platform (being solely a Mac user), it appears that Serif had not anticipated these problems. I am not trying to make excuses for them but I know from my own experiences (4 years working with the development team on Adobe InDesign CS1 onwards) that contrary to popular belief, when software is publicly released it is in fact never ever absolutely completely 'finished'. The development continues non-stop and public launches are merely done at stages they think that their app is 'ready enough'. In other words, an app is always in a degree of beta. So within days or weeks at the most, of launch date they are working on the next version. However, Serif is a much smaller company than Adobe and so the continual development process will doubtless be more gradual and slower.

Also, there will almost certainly be two parallel development teams - One for Mac and one for Windows as the operating systems under the hood are very different.

Serif Affinity have clearly dropped the ball regarding the Windows installation but as Sangoma reports, they are genuinely trying very hard to put matters right. As a company, their whole ethos is to listen to and offer customers what they want - In my experience of them it is the way they roll.

I think that we as consumers need to understand the other side of the story, be patient and fair. Some people will throw their toys out of their pram and vow never to buy from a company again etc but they are the ones who will miss out.

Affinity is a pretty cool trinity and future versions look even more promising.
 
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RedRobin said:
I think that we as consumers need to understand the other side of the story, be patient and fair.
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I take your point and it is a fair one, however don't you that with the launch hype they sort of brought it on themselves by not thoroughly testing before release?
 
gramps said:
I take your point and it is a fair one, however don't you that with the launch hype they sort of brought it on themselves by not thoroughly testing before release?
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.... Yes I agree that Serif were not as ready for Windows users as they thought they were. But thoroughly testing every single instance of compatibility etc is often more easily said than done. Afterall, according to what I have read here, some Windows OS versions have their own issues. All developers are dependent on the big brother OS developer to help third-party developers such as Serif. The bigger players such as Adobe will get more liaison than smaller ones like Serif. Now that my signed non-disclosure agreements with Adobe have elapsed I can say that unofficially they favoured Mac over Windows so, although no-one will admit it, that may also be a factor. But I speculate.

My post #224 was only intended to inform those people here who may not already know, how ongoing software versions are developed and consequently how any version is permanently a work-in-progress.

There is no point in anyone angrily pointing a finger of blame < I am not saying you are doing so Gramps.

I think it is fair to say that Serif's Windows team dropped the ball, so inform them (as done), and be patient. Meanwhile, if a user still has V1 installed it's not going to suddenly stop working. Worse things happen at sea.
 
jerry12953 said:
Not being an Affinity user at all, but it just doesn't seem right - despite what Robin says - that customers who have handed over dosh for a piece of software should actually be trialling it on behalf of the developer......
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.... I'm afraid that a degree of what you are calling "trialling" is inevitable in the ongoing development of any software and it has been so for decades and is not likely to change any time soon. I explained why in my recent posts.

Computer software is complex and the collective input of both developer and consumer is what helps everyone progress. There are many aspects which cannot be tested without wider consumer trialling. Even when a select group of users are given the opportunity to test software, the environment is constantly changing regarding issues of compatibility.

You seem to be making a judgement of what you think is "right" based primarily on your parting with some money and you seem to be ignoring a developer's efforts to progress. But you can easily get a refund if you feel strongly about it.
 
FWIW I found this linked on DPReview and the poster remarked the Serif made the msix decision with best of intentions.....!

forum.affinity.serif.com

Why are we using MSIX for Windows installers?

Pros: MSI had an installation success rate of ~85% (and we have many requests to our tech support team for v1 install failures). MSIX promises a 99.9% success rate. MSI requires admin privileges to install. MSIX installs per-user, but files are deduplicated so that disk space isn't wasted. MSI ap...
forum.affinity.serif.com forum.affinity.serif.com

A quick read of it with the unsubstantiated % figures does to me, possibly, sounds like they are quoting MS numbers and have 'bought into the msix philosophy :thinking:
 
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Box Brownie said:
FWIW I found this linked on DPReview and the poster remarked the Serif made the msix decision with best of intentions.....!

forum.affinity.serif.com

Why are we using MSIX for Windows installers?

Pros: MSI had an installation success rate of ~85% (and we have many requests to our tech support team for v1 install failures). MSIX promises a 99.9% success rate. MSI requires admin privileges to install. MSIX installs per-user, but files are deduplicated so that disk space isn't wasted. MSI ap...
forum.affinity.serif.com forum.affinity.serif.com

A quick read of it with the unsubstantiated % figures does to me, possibly, sounds like they are quoting MS numbers and have 'bought into the msix philosophy :thinking:
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Couple of points there.

I have never had install rates anywhere that low, on the very odd occasion that an install has failed, it has been due to my error or pc problem (settings or spec)

On his point no 2, you don't need a secret place to get a shortcut on the desktop, you just drag it from the start menu.

I have an idea that he may be the one behind the switch to MSIX judging by other posts I have seen, maybe wrong, but if so, it is understandable he will defend it.

It has also been many years since I have had one piece of software break another, and even then I can't remember a time when a reinstall did not put things right. Maybe I can't remember because I actually can't remember when it last happened.

The advantages that I can see MSIX has don't really make much difference to me, and probably the same to other users, many updates/patches do not require a full download and install, they only require specific files to be replaced and maybe registered.

We will never know how many calls their service desk had regarding installation, and wht the percentage of total calls those were, nor the actual problem and what caused it.

Maybe they did the right thing changing to MSIX, maybe the whole industry will do so soon, who knows?
However, the timing and preparation hasn't done them a lot of good.

I also don't understand the relatively complex solution that is being given, unless there is a problem with a simpler solution that anybody who can copy a file can use.
There may be a good reason, but it hasn't emerged yet.

But the very positive point is that they have taken ownership of the issue, and are working on it, as I think the initial palming it off to the other pieces of software was probably the biggest cause of discontent.
 
Awfers said:
If you are using just about any piece of software, you are doing this. Look at Windows / MacOS / Linux and their monthly downloads of security / bug fixes. In fact, I know of no industry that releases a "perfect product" that has no recalls / updates required (industry, food, etc included).

I have worked as a product manager in software for some well-known brands (at least within the industry). I have spent thousands of hours QAing software and communicating back to the developers what is / is not working. I have also spent hundreds and hundreds of hours gathering feature requests, that list gets very, very long as different users want different things. And sometimes that really good idea simply slips down the list, or someone in the Agile project tracking environment changes the priority from A to D (either by mistake or on purpose, IT people like to play nasty games on each other from time to time, not joking) and it becomes a "non-priority". Or, if it's a small team, maybe the project was so large, no one thought of that. It happens. No one is perfect. And then there are the egos of code-writers, sometimes they refused to change something to add a new features because it would mean re-writing a lot of code to include that plugin. Another problem might be that someone has a patent on the regular code / methodology being used (MS or Adobe maybe?) and they want an exorbitant amount of money to license it.

A piece of software is never "done", it's almost impossible to do unless you have a closed environment that does not change (and even then). What you do is make it so it works on the systems you are able (within reason) to test it on.

At the same time, some people have odd setups on their machines which is really, really hard to anticipate. So you get a support request, you ask them to give you a full description of their system, and if all else fails, you make a remote connection to figure out what is going wrong with your piece of software on a Windows Server that the owner swears is "bone stock". 99.999999% of the time the problem comes down to some odd configuration by an IT tech (or a numpty who googled it) who either didn't know what they were doing, or it was a fix that became either "temporarily permanent" or "permanently temporary". Now extrapolate that out to an every-day user of Windows. As an illustration, I do IT support for my parents.. I cannot for the life of me figure out how they have so many IT problems when I run the same type of system. It boggles the mind (ok 75% of the time it's the antivirus causing problems).

So yes, I have some sympathy for Serif. They are trying the best they can. And I am old enough to remember when Adobe released their first Windows compatible software.. ouch...
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.... :agree: And this a full and extremely well-written expansion of what I was wanting to inform in my Reply #227. In a nutshell it is what you have written which I have highlit in bold.
 
Sangoma said:
But the very positive point is that they have taken ownership of the issue, and are working on it, as I think the initial palming it off to the other pieces of software was probably the biggest cause of discontent.
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.... Except that initially the issue may have been thought most likely to be down to incompatibility with other pieces of software - It's not uncommon.

But we all learn from our mistakes and hope to be better when we move on.
 
Sangoma said:
Couple of points there.

I have never had install rates anywhere that low, on the very odd occasion that an install has failed, it has been due to my error or pc problem (settings or spec)

On his point no 2, you don't need a secret place to get a shortcut on the desktop, you just drag it from the start menu.

I have an idea that he may be the one behind the switch to MSIX judging by other posts I have seen, maybe wrong, but if so, it is understandable he will defend it.

It has also been many years since I have had one piece of software break another, and even then I can't remember a time when a reinstall did not put things right. Maybe I can't remember because I actually can't remember when it last happened.

The advantages that I can see MSIX has don't really make much difference to me, and probably the same to other users, many updates/patches do not require a full download and install, they only require specific files to be replaced and maybe registered.

We will never know how many calls their service desk had regarding installation, and wht the percentage of total calls those were, nor the actual problem and what caused it.

Maybe they did the right thing changing to MSIX, maybe the whole industry will do so soon, who knows?
However, the timing and preparation hasn't done them a lot of good.

I also don't understand the relatively complex solution that is being given, unless there is a problem with a simpler solution that anybody who can copy a file can use.
There may be a good reason, but it hasn't emerged yet.

But the very positive point is that they have taken ownership of the issue, and are working on it, as I think the initial palming it off to the other pieces of software was probably the biggest cause of discontent.
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For sure re: the short cut.....I just dragged and dropped it from the start menu!

Having said that there have been occasions when software, even though it says it will, had not added the start menu shortcut and/or not put one on the Desktop, all I had to do was navigate via Windows Explorer to the installation directory and create the shortcut myself. A process that is as about as easy it can get .
 
@Sangoma et al

I noted this Serif welcome news linked at DPReview

"Hi all. Thanks for your patience over the weekend when our offices were closed.

We've had a meeting this morning and decided to ALSO offer MSI installers to those people who would like them. I can't tell you when this will happen, as there is engineering work that will be required to allow this to happen, but we hope it won't be long.

Thanks for your feedback!"

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/in...ftware-program/&do=findComment&comment=988771

I hope they can create the .msi installers in a very timely manner!
 
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Restored my confidence, better than I expected.

There are other potential problems with the app, but won't bring them up, as they will now be answered :)

Great news!
 
Sangoma said:
Restored my confidence, better than I expected.

There are other potential problems with the app, but won't bring them up, as they will now be answered :)

Great news!
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Perhaps, as you are a (pivotal;) ) motivator on that forum and the stimulus to action, you could add your weight to the "make it soon & easily downloaded.....like version 1 was ..." :)

PS I feel a lot more comfortable installing the apps on the understanding that once the .msi are available I can uninstall the apps and then install in my preferred manner using the .msi
 
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Box Brownie said:
Perhaps, as you are a (pivotal;) ) motivator on that forum and the stimulus to action, you could add your weight to the "make it soon & easily downloaded.....like version 1 was ..." :)

PS I feel a lot more comfortable installing the apps on the understanding that once the .msi are available I can uninstall the apps and then install in my preferred manner using the .msi
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Thanks, but I don't think I have any influence there, more likely a pain in the r's :)

I now have a copy installed in Programme Files, it does take a bit of work, and probably not for the average user, but look forward to having a proper package, when I will delete everything and instal that :)
 
Sangoma said:
Thanks, but I don't think I have any influence there, more likely a pain in the r's :)

I now have a copy installed in Programme Files, it does take a bit of work, and probably not for the average user, but look forward to having a proper package, when I will delete everything and instal that :)
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Nah! a thorn in the foot maybe is the term that comes to mind :lol:
 
So the wife has offered to buy me the package for Christmas (assuming I buy it with a discount).

Now I have been following this thread and have no idea what half the stuff means (computers and such are not my strong point). So, as a windows user am I okay to get this software and just use it as is? Or should I wait for these changes to be made? I will only download and use it as it is, I have no other software or processing things.

Cheers,
Ad
 
Adamcski said:
So the wife has offered to buy me the package for Christmas (assuming I buy it with a discount).

Now I have been following this thread and have no idea what half the stuff means (computers and such are not my strong point). So, as a windows user am I okay to get this software and just use it as is? Or should I wait for these changes to be made? I will only download and use it as it is, I have no other software or processing things.

Cheers,
Ad
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Yes, it will work as it is.

The problems are with using it from other programmes, and also the installation method, which won't worry you if you just want to use it as it is.
 
Sangoma said:
Yes, it will work as it is.

The problems are with using it from other programmes, and also the installation method, which won't worry you if you just want to use it as it is.
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Thanks @Sangoma
 
Sangoma said:
Yes, it will work as it is.

The problems are with using it from other programmes, and also the installation method, which won't worry you if you just want to use it as it is.
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thanks that’s good to know, I was wondering about installing it, Affinity version 2 on my windows PC as well (my main machine is an M1 MacBook Pro)
although I don’t use the PC so much now as it’s well out of date and struggles a bit with the large files from my R5
 
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