Advice wanted for when the lighting is....

shabba

shabba

Suspended / Banned
Messages
936
Edit My Images
No
Hi All,

Need some advice and help as I was shooting at an event last night and I really struggled with the conditions. I’ve shot indoors a good few times before at similar type parties/events and not had such issues but last night nothing seemed to be working for me.

I was using a Canon 40D, 430EX flash and my main lens was the 50mm 1.8 prime. The event was within a large indoor courtyard, with a high (3 story) ceiling, lighting was poor and mainly pink toned. Usually I work at ISO500, use the flash with a diffuser set to point almost straight up, WB set to flash, F5.6-6.7 and my 17-70mm Sigma (2.8-4.5), 125/sec and this gets me good enough results. However it was darker inside last night and I had to use the 50mm for its better performance, also due to there being to ceiling I was shooting with the flash full on position (direct at subject ) but with the diffuser cap (flash was on auto, ETTL etc and sometimes using the 2nd curtain >> option).

I just couldn’t get decent results, people just looked a bit rabit in the headlights, and not the usual ‘club’ style shots you see. I went to ISO1000 and down to 4.5 with 90/sec but still no good. Tried lots of different combinations and nothing seemed to yield results.

Do I need a different type of diffuser? Or is it a case I just need better glass? (1.4 perhaps?), or a camera with better ISO performance? I haven’t got the pics off yet but will show examples when I do. Usually I don’t have any problems and can happily leave the settings where they are pretty much and just snap away.
I read the club guide posted here the other week and it said go high ISO, low on shutter, but I doubt if I go lower than 90/sec I won’t get a clear image when shooting candid.

Also I was shooting candid shots, so probably 3m away from subject, as I didn’t want posed photos or to get in peoples faces too much.

Really disappointed, this was the worst photo experience I’ve had – usually I know my work isn’t amazing but it’s decent enough for me to at least be satisfied. Colours were washed out, people didn't look remotely natural etc.

Really appreciate any advice for this type of shooting, i.e very high ceiling, very little light.
 
Yes will do, will be tomorrow night maybe - not sure when I'll have time to get the pics downloaded.

These are the normal type of results I get, maybe not to everyones taste but this is the style I like/prefer.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs373.snc4/45615_414218237503_502107503_4774569_2499028_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs436.snc4/47922_414218392503_502107503_4774579_3701617_n.jpg

Last night ones are ALOT worse, oh dear! Might as well have used my Nokia 6500 2.0mp camera.
 
the key is balancing your two exposures, the normal exposure for the background/ambient and the flash exposure for your subjects. If it was darker than you are used to then you were right to up you ISO, open you aperture and slow your shutter personally in a dark party setting I would have opened the aperture even further f2.8 to get as much ambient as possible. Without seeing your shots I suspect what has killed your photos is the direct flash it's seriously tricky to avoid the rabbit in the headlights rusults in a party environment, best advice I can give is invest in a really good diffuser or even better look to get that flash off the hotshoe in this setting.
 
Problem is shooting people in groups as they chat, i.e 3-4 in a cicle means I had to shoot over shoulders and such and needed 5.6 at least to get 2 people in focus.

I think the diffuser might be the issue as you say - thing is I see alot of 'club' photographers always shooting direct flash, i.e diffuser cap but shot straight at the subject. I can only assue this is ok for them as they are shooting with good glass on a 5.6 of below and a high ISO, so the flash doesn't have to do too much work?
 
Flash sync used to be 1/60 sec and we never had any problems with that, the flash is freezing the subject, with fairly static subjects you should get away with 1/30th even, that'll bring up the ambiant lighting 2 stops.
Bouncing of a ceiling 3 stories up may not be working with a 430, it's not the most powerfull flash, remember flash distance works as a square root, double the distance, quarter the power.
 
Thanks, but really 1/30? I mean maybe that is ok for people posing for a shot, but when people are chatting and moving around?
 
shabba said:
Thanks, but really 1/30? I mean maybe that is ok for people posing for a shot, but when people are chatting and moving around?
Click to expand...

When using flash, shutter speed merely dictates the amount of ambient light recorded - the flash duration effectively becomes your 'shutter-speed'.
Unless the subjects are moving too quickly, then as long as you can happily hand-hold at 1/30th, you'll be fine.

I would say that you have just discovered the limits of your equipment though - might be time to upgrade camera and flash units to ones with better high-iso capability and bigger output.
 
Arkady said:
I would say that you have just discovered the limits of your equipment though - might be time to upgrade camera and flash units to ones with better high-iso capability and bigger output.
Click to expand...


Translation (Robspeak->English): Buy a Nikon :lol:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Translation (Robspeak->English): Buy a Nikon :lol:
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, a 7D will give wireless off camera flash, just hold the camera in your right hand and the flash in your left high above the subject, pointing down, using a diffuser. Use Av and ETTL, shutter speed will stay at a minimum of 1/60th, the flash will do the rest. Or use an off camera flash cord.....


Steve
 
If the ceiling was too far away and the floor was shiny could you have bounced the flash off the floor? Might have turned a bit halloween though :)

If direct flash was too strong can you dial down the power on the flash or choose fill flash?
 
PerfectSpeed said:
Or find someone wearing white and get them to walk around with you, bouncing off them :D
Click to expand...

A small white dirigible on a tether, perhaps...:D

New from Lencarta - the Photo-Zeppelin!

The upgrade to the old Photo-R101, Photo-Zeppelin comes with integral Metz Megablitz strobes firing into the hydrogen-packed interior for that extra burst of light just where it's needed!!!
 
Last edited:
Arkady said:
A small white dirigible on a tether, perhaps...:D

New from Lencarta - the Photo-Zeppelin!

The upgrade to the old Photo-R101, Photo-Zeppelin comes with integral Metz Megablitz strobes firing into the hydrogen-packed interior for that extra burst of light just where it's needed!!!
Click to expand...
:lol::lol: OK lads wait, I ave an idea :suspect:

Hydrogen, OK, bad idea, but an assistant with an indoor model helicopter wit strobes strapped to it :thumbs:
 
Last edited:
Also regarding comments:

- No idea if Nikon is better than Canon, I started on the Canon road and always felt it was one of those 6 of one, half a dozen of the other type things. Surely if one brand was superior then every pro out there would use it?

- Stupid question, how do I use the flash in fill mode? I thought it was just the level of output and 2nd curtain that you change? I didnt want to go manual with it and I'm not comfortable enough with what power setting I'd need for each shot, given the distance etc was different each time.

- Won't be able to upgrade any equipment for a while, I have a little bit in the kitty but I think I will use that on a 10-20mm lens, as sometimes I've found a need to go wider, more than I've found the flash/ISO to be an issue anyway.

- Good idea on the off camera, will order a trigger set now.
 
Any more comments now I've added the pics? Any advice appreciated to get better photos.
 
shabba said:
Won't be able to upgrade any equipment for a while, I have a little bit in the kitty but I think I will use that on a 10-20mm lens, as sometimes I've found a need to go wider, more than I've found the flash/ISO to be an issue anyway.
Click to expand...

Have you looked at the Tokina AF 11-16mm f/2.8 AT-X Pro, constant 2.8 so no surprises.
 
No I didnt know about the tokina 11-16, would consider it but only a used one and if it was sub £250. My budget is very limited, rarely have much spare cash.
 
shabba said:
Any more comments now I've added the pics? Any advice appreciated to get better photos.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing people are scared to comment because the pictures aren't as bad as you said ;)

Some issues with them definitely but acceptable at web size. I've seen much worse offered by some event photographers.

I use a home made "A Better Bounce Card" (link further up the thread) and they are really quite cool.

A lot of this type of photography comes down to composition - you learn what patterns of people work with your kit and which don't. Then put yourself where the good patterns happen.
 
shabba said:
Also regarding comments:

- Stupid question, how do I use the flash in fill mode? I thought it was just the level of output and 2nd curtain that you change? I didnt want to go manual with it and I'm not comfortable enough with what power setting I'd need for each shot, given the distance etc was different each time.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I know my camera has a fill flash mode with the built in one so if you are using a dedicated canon flash I'd expect if you changed it to fill mode on the camera and left the flash on auto it should do just that. I could be embarrassingly wrong... I think you may have to read the manuals :) Also doing some test shots with different power setting in each venue might give you a good idea when you get there of roughly what power you need. There's bound to be someone that is willing to stand for you for a few minutes while you take a few test shots.

The photos you have posted really aren't bad considering the pink lighting overhead.
 
Thanks folks, guess just not happy with them as they aren't at the level I want them.

Aprreciate all comments.
 
I just shot a party tonite and had the same problem. It was in a marquee which was black. It was only lit with fairy lights and a few spot lights so was really dark. I had to use direct flash and it really doesn't look good. Any tips on what to do when editing to help make the pics a bit better. Im really not happy with the results so hope that the client doesnt feel the same way.
 
shabba said:
Any more comments now I've added the pics? Any advice appreciated to get better photos.
Click to expand...

You are effectively shooting outside because the ceiling is too high, so any kind of 'open' diffuser will do nothing - they need an external surface (ceiling, walls) to bounce off. All the diffuser has done for your here is waste light.

The best type of accessory to use in that situation is a Lumiquest, which is closed. It makes the area of the light source bigger and therefore a little softer, but doesn't squirt it into nowhere. The bigger the better, but you've got to be practical. I like their Quik Bounce best because it does so many things well - check it out www.lumiquest.com

In addition to that, I would shoot on Av with E-TTL and try to get some ambient light in there to fill the background. If the ambient is tungsten, fit a CTO gel to balance the colour. If the shutter speed gets to long, adjust it as best you can with ISO and f/number. Forget about second-curtain sync - it is often actually a disadvantage in this situation, and will enhance nothing.

TBH it sounds like you need to read up a bit, practise, ask some more questions, and build your knowledge of how flash works in different situations that way.
 
Great reply, thanks Hoppy. Will look into those diffusers.

What is a CTO sorry?

Hazemusyer - try adding a hint of fill light, very slight exposure change and adjust the temp.
 
I understand that CTO is Colour Temperature Orange. Effectively it will change the colour temperature of the shot.

I agree with Hoppy re the shots - I think in my limited experience the flash needs to be warmer and softer to enhance the photos and take away the hard shadows etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top