advice regard selling.

[hayley.price]

hey guys just looking for a bit of advice.


if you sell your photos using online proofs for them to look at and order from, and they choose to order them from the online proofs received them then 2 weeks+ after receiving the photos, someone who didn't even purchase the photos but is messaging you on behalf of the said people who did purchase the photos saying that they don't like the photos and want a refund but also want digital copies of the photos thrown in.

how would you react to this situation?

the person who is messaging me is saying about 1 person who i have previously spoken too and given her digital copies free of charge, another person who told me she was happy with the photos she received, and the last received photos but is yet to pay for the photos.

thanks for your replys hayley.

 

[MWHCVT]

If the person contacting you is not the customer thank them for contacting you but you are only able to deal with the customer, under no circumstances send them the files...

As to them not liking the prints, if you don't review prints prior to sending on the client, I'd as to view the prints and if they were not to standard I'd arrange a FoC replacement prints, I'm guessing your using a fulfilment service provider

Also re: the customer who hasn't paid, they really should not already have the goods, in the future don't order prints without first having received your payment but right now I wouldn't waste time chasing payment other than a reminder message about payment being due

 

[hayley.price]

The person who has paided was giving the money to a co photographer who never collected, yet according to the person who is messaging me she is unhappy with the prints and wants digital copy's to reprint, my understanding is that if I did send her the digital copies they would print out the same as I printed them anyway.

 

[MWHCVT]

The person who has paided was giving the money to a co photographer who never collected, yet according to the person who is messaging me she is unhappy with the prints and wants digital copy's to reprint, my understanding is that if I did send her the digital copies they would print out the same as I printed them anyway.

It depends on who is doing the printing, I mean a domestic printer is never likely to output prints to the standard of a lab....also this assumes a correctly calibrated screen as this is a potential issue that could cause prints to be different in reality to what you or the client for that matter saw on there screen...it's possible that the colours your client viewed on there screen were vastly different from the real/true colours

 

[hayley.price]

It depends on who is doing the printing, I mean a domestic printer is never likely to output prints to the standard of a lab....also this assumes a correctly calibrated screen as this is a potential issue that could cause prints to be different in reality to what you or the client for that matter saw on there screen...it's possible that the colours your client viewed on there screen were vastly different from the real/true colours

Hmm I didn't think about the calibration of there screen :/ photos where the same as they looked on my screen and they were printed using photo box online.

 

[MWHCVT]

Hmm I didn't think about the calibration of there screen :/ photos where the same as they looked on my screen and they were printed using photo box online.

So you have seen the photos then that's good then....to be honest I'd stick with the fact the customer needs to be the one contacting you...

 

[hayley.price]

So you have seen the photos then that's good then....to be honest I'd stick with the fact the customer needs to be the one contacting you...

Okay I'll just tell her that. Would you offer a refund if the complaints turn out to be true or digital copies??

 

[cw318is]

I'd get to the bottom of why she isn't happy with them. If its because she doesn't like the image, how would a digital copy help? If its because of the quality of the print then you need to get them back and see whats wrong. It may be that the printer was having a bad day - in which case FOC reprint and take it up with the printer you used (assuming it wasn't done in house).

it may be a token gesture would help - eg an additional free print included.

 

[MWHCVT]

Okay I'll just tell her that. Would you offer a refund if the complaints turn out to be true or digital copies??

I'm not sure that I would to be honest, if the prints are accurate she is not going to get any different prints if you provide the digital files or reprint...if you don't already have such a disclaimer I'd be adding to my ordering/website that products ordered are bespoke and as such refunds are not available once the order has been processed or words to that effect and that variations on colours are possible due to differences in users viewing display, however all orders are processed on calibrated monitors....

 

[simonkit]

I guess it does depend on the type of photography you're involved in but giving away digital copies allows customers to reproduce as many prints as they like, you need to make sure you fix your pricing accordingly

As already recommended you should only deal with the actual customer


Simon

 

[hayley.price]

I'd get to the bottom of why she isn't happy with them. If its because she doesn't like the image, how would a digital copy help? If its because of the quality of the print then you need to get them back and see whats wrong. It may be that the printer was having a bad day - in which case FOC reprint and take it up with the printer you used (assuming it wasn't done in house). it may be a token gesture would help - eg an additional free print included.

The main problems being stated are with the colours. One problem was there is a green line on the photo that is not on the digital image and when I checked the photo before delivering it to them was not apparent on the photo.

 

[cw318is]

I'd go the FOC reprint route then and try a different printer or double check your colour profiles, once you have released digital copies you will have no idea where they end up.

 

[hayley.price]

I guess it does depend on the type of photography you're involved in but giving away digital copies allows customers to reproduce as many prints as they like, you need to make sure you fix your pricing accordingly As already recommended you should only deal with the actual customer Simon

I do equine photography x

 

[hayley.price]

I'd go the FOC reprint route then and try a different printer or double check your colour profiles, once you have released digital copies you will have no idea where they end up.

The prints matched my images on the computer, after a few issues with over exposure pointed out on here I re calibrate my screen often to try and combat colours being wrong but I will order in one of the photos in discussion from else where and check twice.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

The main problems being stated are with the colours. One problem was there is a green line on the photo that is not on the digital image and when I checked the photo before delivering it to them was not apparent on the photo.

I would suspect they simply want free digital copies. Ask them to show you in person what is wrong with them exactly before you do anything else. Oh and ask for the payment they owe. If they haven't paid I wouldn't even spend a minute thinking about them unless they are an important customer to you (I guess not).

The prints would be bespoke, so unless they are of poor quality they legally have little they can do.

 

[DemiLion]

There's a fair standard proceedure for this. You ask them to return the print to you for a QA check and if its duff you contact the lab for a reprint. I've been through this with Photobox a couple of times -they're fairly switched on.

As for the digital files, sure, they can have them. At an uplift cost of £xyz - whatever value you place on them. You don't hand them out for free, unless they've been prepaid for.

Refund AND digitalis??? Jog on would be my rough reply.


Edit - I was going to correct the typo, but its funnier with it left in!

 

[hayley.price]

I would suspect they simply want free digital copies. Ask them to show you in person what is wrong with them exactly before you do anything else. Oh and ask for the payment they owe. If they haven't paid I wouldn't even spend a minute thinking about them unless they are an important customer to you (I guess not).

The prints would be bespoke, so unless they are of poor quality they legally have little they can do.

yea thats a good idea thank you.

There's a fair standard proceedure for this. You ask them to return the print to you for a QA check and if its duff you contact the lab for a reprint. I've been through this with Photobox a couple of times -they're fairly switched on.

As for the digital files, sure, they can have them. At an uplift cost of £xyz - whatever value you place on them. You don't hand them out for free, unless they've been prepaid for.

Refund AND digitalis??? Jog on would be my rough reply.


Edit - I was going to correct the typo, but its funnier with it left in!

hmm okay then thank you, will see if i can get the prints back.

 

[KIPAX]

You should already ahve a returns policy in place..

Mine is....Return the pictures for full refund.. thats it.. nothing else

 

[realspeed]

hey guys just looking for a bit of advice.


if you sell your photos using online proofs for them to look at and order from, and they choose to order them from the online proofs received them then 2 weeks+ after receiving the photos, someone who didn't even purchase the photos but is messaging you on behalf of the said people who did purchase the photos saying that they don't like the photos and want a refund but also want digital copies of the photos thrown in.

how would you react to this situation?

the person who is messaging me is saying about 1 person who i have previously spoken too and given her digital copies free of charge, another person who told me she was happy with the photos she received, and the last received photos but is yet to pay for the photos.

thanks for your replys hayley.

Quote " someone who didn't even purchase the photos" is the answer. You have no contract with them only with the people who bought them. So I would tell them to butt out.

It may be worth adding in the contract something to the effect that the photos are for the buyers consumption only and seeing you still own the copywrite they are in actual breach of selling/passing on your own product without your permission, or something similar.
If doing on line proofs do make sure they have a heavy watermark right across them so they can't be used.

It also may be worth adding a time limit to refusal to accept usually 14 days is sufficient. Unfortunately this day and age everyone is out to screw the business owner and try and get away with something.
We also have had people try it on and now have a very strict terms and conditions policy of which clients are given a copy. We still occassionally have clients who either didn't read or thought if they complained enough we would give way, unfortunately they can't and mentioning small claims court seem to do the trickto get them to pay up.

My advise would be tighten up your contract and make it clear your terms of acceptance. Even if it requires a solicitor to glance over it for you.

Remember business is business and personal life is your own, never ever try and mix the two, it doesn't work. Be pleasant at all times with clients but be firm as well.

 

[hayley.price]

You should already ahve a returns policy in place..

Mine is....Return the pictures for full refund.. thats it.. nothing else

well i have never really had issues like this before as never had any complaints about the pictures people have bought from me before.

so as bad as it is hadn't really thought about returns.

Quote " someone who didn't even purchase the photos" is the answer. You have no contract with them only with the people who bought them. So I would tell them to butt out.

It may be worth adding in the contract something to the effect that the photos are for the buyers consumption only and seeing you still own the copywrite they are in actual breach of selling/passing on your own product without your permission, or something similar.
If doing on line proofs do make sure they have a heavy watermark right across them so they can't be used.

It also may be worth adding a time limit to refusal to accept usually 14 days is sufficient. Unfortunately this day and age everyone is out to screw the business owner and try and get away with something.
We also have had people try it on and now have a very strict terms and conditions policy of which clients are given a copy. We still occassionally have clients who either didn't read or thought if they complained enough we would give way, unfortunately they can't and mentioning small claims court seem to do the trickto get them to pay up.

My advise would be tighten up your contract and make it clear your terms of acceptance. Even if it requires a solicitor to glance over it for you.

hmm, yea im going to right up a full conditions policy today, make sure nothing happens again. and yes i will do a time limit thats a good idea. thank you

 

[Tugster]

To prevent this issue again you really need to tighten up on your colour management too.

To say that you didn't think about calibration tells me you shouldn't be selling just yet.
You are just opening yourself up to further issues.

 

[hayley.price]

To prevent this issue again you really need to tighten up on your colour management too.

To say that you didn't think about calibration tells me you shouldn't be selling just yet.
You are just opening yourself up to further issues.

i thought about my calibration but not theres. :/

 

[realspeed]

having a contract is really a must nowadays to protect yourself. Remember to watch your back against being sued, so think about adding an indemnity clause limiting claims against you. May not be necessary but better to add than not, also maybe add about any third party policy you may have. Of course this would be in addition to fees-charges -rates- cancellations-alternate photographer if your unavailable etc, which may be necessary in the contract.

Not being a legal beagle I can't advise as to actual law but only that related to our own experience

 

[dod]

how would you react to this situation?

If, and only if, you're confident the print was good:

tell her she's at it and you know she's at it.

YOu've given files away to someone for nothing and now this one wants the same deal but she doesn't want to ask directly, hence the mate doing it for her.

 

[MartynK]

Yip. It sounds as if the client knows you've given someone else free images - files - and is looking for the same concession, but asking for a refund and free files is bordering on the ridiculous.

Responding to the person who contacted you is quite simple. Just reply, and explain - politely and firmly - that you can only discuss this with the client. Ignore any further contact from them.

You have a few choices if the client gets in touch with you directly. Ask them to return the prints and offer a full refund contingent on this, but don't give them files, and move on. Draw up a contract as others have suggested, and sort out any quality control issues with your prints before you offer them for sale.

This is pretty trivial, so don't let it get to you. Just learn from it. All the best.

 

[hayley.price]

having a contract is really a must nowadays to protect yourself. Remember to watch your back against being sued, so think about adding an indemnity clause limiting claims against you. May not be necessary but better to add than not, also maybe add about any third party policy you may have. Of course this would be in addition to fees-charges -rates- cancellations-alternate photographer if your unavailable etc, which may be necessary in the contract.

Not being a legal beagle I can't advise as to actual law but only that related to our own experience

what is a indemnity clause?

If, and only if, you're confident the print was good:

tell her she's at it and you know she's at it.

YOu've given files away to someone for nothing and now this one wants the same deal but she doesn't want to ask directly, hence the mate doing it for her.

hmm thats a good point.

Yip. It sounds as if the client knows you've given someone else free images - files - and is looking for the same concession, but asking for a refund and free files is bordering on the ridiculous.

Responding to the person who contacted you is quite simple. Just reply, and explain - politely and firmly - that you can only discuss this with the client. Ignore any further contact from them.

You have a few choices if the client gets in touch with you directly. Ask them to return the prints and offer a full refund contingent on this, but don't give them files, and move on. Draw up a contract as others have suggested, and sort out any quality control issues with your prints before you offer them for sale.

This is pretty trivial, so don't let it get to you. Just learn from it. All the best.

i have sent her a message saying that if they have any issues they need to contact me directly neither her or the person who purchased the photos has messaged me back from that.

thanks everyone for your help