Advice re Workflow with RSE & Elements 4.

BobR

BobR

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Reading through some of the threads in the forum it seems that workflow is a bit of an art - and one I am struggling to get to grips with. What I have noticed from lurking in amongst the threads are that some of people tend to use a few different applications.

I have been using RAW Shooter Essentials which I like a lot - mostly for the way I can easily tag my shots (sadly the vast majority into the bin at the moment :'( ) and then convert to a different format. It is very quick to go through 30 or 40 shots and decide what to keep.

I have downloaded 30 day freebee of Elements 4 and like that for the way it stores and sorts my pictures.

My questions -

1. Am I wasting time and money using both applications - assuming I purchase Elements 4 and possibly ugrade to the premium version of RSE.

2. Does anybody else use the same combination and can suggest a workflow model I could try about.

Sorry if the questions are a bit on the vague side but I am just finding my way around at the moment. :bang:

Regards,

Bob
 
Hi Bob,

The thing with those two software packages, in that although there are functions that are similar to both packages, they are essentially two different types of package.

Raw Shooter, both Essentials and Pro, are for all intents and purposes, RAW conversion software. Elements 4 is a graphics editor.

Now personally I would actually recommend finding a workflow that incorporates both packages.

The thing with "your workflow" is that what works for one person, may not work at all with someone else. Despite you saying you're struggling to get to grips with it, it sounds like you're starting to 'nail' it down, so to speak.

You've found Rawshooter, which you like, and you have a process using RS in which you eliminate all your binners and keepers. This is usually the first (or second) stage of any workflow anyway. So you've got that bit covered.

Personally, my workflow is roughly :

Rawshooter to discard images
Tag the ones that will make the final cut (and also tag 'possibles' (to look at at a future date)).
Adjust the "finalists" in rawshooter (white balance, exposure, shadow/highlight, levels, contrast and saturation).
Convert to 16 bit TIFF

I THEN open up Photoshop (in your case elements 4), and work on the image (doing any rotating, cropping and cloning etc).
Then saving for storage and saving a JPEG for web.

So if you think about it, you're not far off a pretty good workflow yourself...give yourself some credit :thumbs:

If you want me to elaborate more on my workflow, then just let me know :)
 
Marcel said:
Then saving for storage and saving a JPEG for web.
Click to expand...
I follow pretty much the same workflow, Marcel. A question though - reference saving for storage, are you saving as a psd or tif, since there is a fair difference in file sizes.

regards
 
Stepheno, it would be tiff....or that's what I do anyway.
 
Marcel said:
Snip....
Personally, my workflow is roughly :

Rawshooter to discard images
Tag the ones that will make the final cut (and also tag 'possibles' (to look at at a future date)).
Adjust the "finalists" in rawshooter (white balance, exposure, shadow/highlight, levels, contrast and saturation).
Convert to 16 bit TIFF

I THEN open up Photoshop (in your case elements 4), and work on the image (doing any rotating, cropping and cloning etc).
Then saving for storage and saving a JPEG for web.
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same as my workflow, except, ive got RSP so I take care of the cropping and rotating aspects using that. I then only need Photoshop for cloning and exporting for web use.

I think personally RSP is a waste of money over RSE if you have a final PS type package for rotation and Cropping.
 
OK ... I got Elements 4 and have never used RSE ! :shrug:

I also have CS2 but have not yet really gotten to grips with what it offers - however in the processing stage I do try to use Photoshop for editing as it is offered in the Edit drop-down and I need to practice with it ! ;)

It makes no real odds because whether you choose E4 or Photoshop a new window is opened for editing anyways ... :p

E4 seems to me, at any rate, to do exactly the same as what you are looking for in that;

My work flow (still being streamlined) goes something like ... :suspect:

1. Load files from Camera/CF via E4 downloader
2. E4 opens automatically after download to intake files
3. Easily Sort, Delete & Tag all files in E4
4. Process files as required to suit style/outputs
5. Save TIFF storage & JPEG (web/printing as necessary)

Over-simplified I know, but I cannot see what another bit of software, i.e. RSE would provide that I don't already get from E4 ? Speaking purely as a one-stop-shop fan who has no idea precisely what RSE offers. :gag:

My input for what it is worth ... HTH ? :thinking:
 
KenCo1964 said:
Stepheno, it would be tiff....or that's what I do anyway.
Click to expand...
Thanks Ken your remark got me thinking about storage and file sizes so I did me a little test on one image -

Original RAW - file size 8.4mgb
Converted to TIF in RSP - file size 47 mgb
Saved as PSD with 2 adjustment layers, in CS2 - file size 88 mgb
Saved as TIF with 1 adjustment layer in CS2 - file size 115 mgb

Methinks I'll just keep on storing the original RAW file and work on it each time I need to.

regards
 
Well I will admit my workflow isn't the most space conscious thing it could be...but then again, I have the space, and storage is cheap so........:lol:

Anyway, a little breakdown of my workflow

01. Original RAW file copied to dated folder on my HD (eg for today, it would be for eg "06.19 Flower Macros")
02. Load up CKRename, and change filenames, replacing IMG_ with 060619_ (which is todays date). This is the filename I'll use for that shot from now on.
03. Load up RSP, and sort through, deleting rubbish, marking the "best" shots with a "1", "Possible" shots with a "2", and leaving further possibles for a later look.
04. Select to view all "1" shots, and go through them, adjusting settings ready for conversion.
05. Select all "1" shots, duly adjusted, and hit the insert key, to convert them to the following folder on my HD, as 16 bit TIFFs....
"01. Working"

I then open up Photoshop and Adobe Bridge, and select the above folder.
Starting off with the first shot in there, I go through them one by one with the following actions, repeating for each image.

01. Open 16bit TIFF into Photoshop.
02. Hit F2 which runs an action, which saves a TIFF copy into "04. Master Tiffs. This is so if I ever lose the Rawshooter settings cache and I ever need to reprocess the RAW, I have an unedited, uncropped and messed about with image.
03. I then work on the image, using layers for things like level adjustments, so I can adjust them again at a later date.
04. Once done, I resave the image (back into 01. Working)
05. I then run a script which flattens the image, resizes it to 600 pixels, sharpens it, borders it and opens up the save for web dialog.
06. I save the bordered, websized version into 03. Ready for web
07. The "action" automatically closes the image for me.
08. Back to Adobe bridge, move the image from 01. Working to 02. Processed, and then I start again on the next one.

It may seem a bit long winded for some, but it really is quick, and I have backups at certain points where needed, and can always nip back to any stage in my workflow. :)

I also don't save any sharpened or noisewared versions of my shots (only in the websized one), which helps for future submissions to stock agencies etc ;)
 
stepheno said:
Thanks Ken your remark got me thinking about storage and file sizes so I did me a little test on one image -

Original RAW - file size 8.4mgb
Converted to TIF in RSP - file size 47 mgb
Saved as PSD with 2 adjustment layers, in CS2 - file size 88 mgb
Saved as TIF with 1 adjustment layer in CS2 - file size 115 mgb

Methinks I'll just keep on storing the original RAW file and work on it each time I need to.

regards
Click to expand...
Yes but you are saving layers which bumps it up....only save as layers if you are not finished working on it. If you flatten image then save as tiff it will be less than 50meg.
 
KenCo1964 said:
Yes but you are saving layers which bumps it up....only save as layers if you are not finished working on it. If you flatten image then save as tiff it will be less than 50meg.
Click to expand...
Yes - I appreciate that. But still...50mgb an image....phew.

regards
 
Hmm, I use the Canon Viewer Utility to go through mine first and sort out the keepers and recycle bin. No point using Raw shooters as it doesn't let you view jpegs which I use 99% of the time. To be honest I don't/didn't really like RSE anyway, always just felt like an extra step in the process and I can't tell the difference between finished shots from it or anything else. But that's for another thread ;)

Once rubbish binned batch groups of about 20 using premade actions in photoshop and save in a separate file from the originals
 
I use RSP and I'm getting to grips with some sort of workflow now. The first thing I do is download all the RAW files to the PC into a folder specific to the location/date/ subject. If there are a lot of files go and brew up while they download. Once they're on the PC my card is available for use straight away and the pressure is off as far as having to sort them straight away.

Next step is to go throught the files and be merciless in deleting the crap and the mediocre. Of the remainder I'll pick the best and just do levels, curves etc in RSP (if necessary). Then it's output to PSP as a TIFF for final sharpening and tweaking.

You should always keep the RAW data files as you can always go back to them should you need to. They're also about a third of the size of a full size TIFF sitting on your hard drive.
 
CT said:
You should always keep the RAW data files as you can always go back to them should you need to. They're also about a third of the size of a full size TIFF sitting on your hard drive.
Click to expand...
Thats my reasoning CT.

regards
 
Lots of food for thought there for me... thanks for all the responses and good advice.

Regards,

Bob
 
Marcel said:
I ashamedly keep both...and a backup TIFF :nuts:
Click to expand...
Makes sense to me, for if you wanted/needed a print you'd have to reprocess otherwise. Although I don't keep a copy of the tiff and only keep that one until I may try to reprocess and it's better.
 
Marcel, you should have a look at a little program called DIM, a great little app that moves your images off the memory card and renames them in a user specified date format automatically. It also creates the date based directory structure as it goes. I have it setup to auto-run when I put a card in the card-reader. Makes life lovely and easy as I can make a cup of tea while they download and re-name!

Then it's onto rse for image tagging and adjustments, saved out as 16bit tiff
good ones then go into CS2 to be cropped, dusted, etc.
Those going to stock get upsized to 48Mb bit TIFF, saved LZW(lossless) compression.
I then save out a jpeg for my website and dispay here and for viewing on the pc at home.
Original RAW folder with the converted tiffs is then burnt onto dvd and deleted, leaving just the unsharpened tiff and jpeg on my HD.

HTH?
 
When you chaps talk about "tagging" in RSE, what do you mean? Giving the photo's keywords and ratings etc? If you do this in RSE, does Photoshop pick it up too? One of my beefs is that if I adjust a RAW file in RSE, the changes aren't picked up by Photoshop.

Matt
 
Tagging in RSP is just giving a shot a rating eg 1,2,3 or Bin. Gives you the option to sort your shots into keepers, maybes, bins etc. PS wont pick up RSP tags, but then I dont need it to.

I'm not sure what you mean by PS picking up adjustments. If I've altered the WB in RSP then that's it, done. I wont be adjusting it again in CS2. I may be missing your point here. HTH Feenster.

regards
 
Well, if I adjust a RAW file in RSE, and then open up Adobe Bridge, the adjustments don't show on the RAW file. I think this is because RSE saves the adjustments in a seperate file which Adobe doesn't pay any attention to.

Matt
 
Ah...gotcha. What you are opening in PS is still the unprocessed RAW file. When you process a RAW file in RSP you need to convert it to a JPG or a TIF (Batch Convert Tab). Then your adjustments will show in PS and you can carry on with sharpening, borders whatever. HTH.

regards
 
Ah, i think I am approaching it differently. I like RSE to browse my pictures, as it is nice and lightweight, and simple to use. I find Adobe Bridge very slow.

No matter - I will try and do more in RSE I think.

Matt
 
I'm glad someone else finds Adobe Bridge slow. It's so slow it sucks and I just dont use it at all.

regards
 
stepheno said:
I'm glad someone else finds Adobe Bridge slow. It's so slow it sucks and I just dont use it at all.

regards
Click to expand...
Me too!
 
I use RSP and do very similar.

1 - Copy omages to a folder on hdd
2 - Fire up RSP
3 - Use RSP to rename the images
4 - Sort the keepers from the binners
5 - Adjust & crop in RSP - sometimes make several different conversions of the same image for blending or both colour & monochrome versions
6 - Convert to 16 bit tiff in a subfolder called RSP Tiff
7 - Backup RAW files & Tiff files to DVD including the RSP folder '.RWSettings'
8 - Final adjustments in CS2 & save as full size jpg in sub- folder called 'Final Jpg'
9 - Resize any images for web use and save for web in sub folder calle 'web'
10 - Save all final jpg's to DVD when there are enough to fill a DVD
 
Keltic Ice Man said:
rather than using Bridge - which I find really poor and slow - I prefer the freebie - Faststone Image Viewer http://www.faststone.org/FSViewerDetail.htm

Thanks for the workflow ideas - only thing I would add is I take a backup immediately just incase I delete a good pic by mistake :( no faith in my skills.

Allan
Click to expand...


Just downloaded it now and it looks really good.
 
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