Advice please

JohnPh

JohnPh

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A few months ago I sold a friend of mine some prints which he put into a local framers for framing. He has since moved away and forgot to pick his prints up and now says he can't be bothered sorting them out (I think it's a cashflow problem as the frames he ordered were a good few £)

A couple of days ago I walked past the framers and noticed they are selling my prints in the window, they were closed at the time so I couldn't go in. I'm a bit annoyed they are selling the prints on but don't really know where I stand so I thought I'd post on here before approaching the framing shop, any advice appreciated.
 
I don't know where you stand from a legal standpoint, but from a common sense stand point I guess the framers have made the best of a bad situation. They've done the work requested, and I suppose they've waiting long enough for your friend to collect and pay up. As your friend or a representative hasn't materialised they've decided to try to recoup their losses by seeing if someone else wants to pay for the framed prints.

If they are selling for a higher price than they originally quoted for the frames I would go and see if they would be willing to sell them to you at the price of the frames only and explain the situation with your friend.
 
I would say he is absoloutly NOT allowed to sell YOUR work (I am not a legal expert) .. However I wouldn't take that approach.. Pop in explain and have a chat as Tim above mentions.... These threads usually get a lot of.. Invoice him.. take him to the cleaners blah blah... just take a nice approach and if that doesn't work ,..then come back and let us know.. we will set the full wrath of TP on him :)
 
I reckon they will be within their rights to sell it. The print itself is a physical object, a one off; it's not as if they are duplicating it and selling copies.

I think you are more annoyed that they are selling it without your permission, but you kind of handed over ownership of the print when you gave it to your friend. The fact he didn't keep hold of it is outside of your control, but I suspect your frustration should be directed elsewhere rather than the frame shop.

In fact, if there aren't many frame shops in your area, you may be doing your bit to help keep them in business, so think of it as a good thing ;)
 
I'd say they can sell it. Think of a painting that changes hands, they are always being night and sold!

This isn't a copyright issue, it's the physical print which belongs to the printer until it's sold. As annoying as that is! As long as they don't make copies of course.
 
odd jim said:
This isn't a copyright issue, it's the physical print which belongs to the printer until it's sold. As annoying as that is! As long as they don't make copies of course.
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This guys is the framer.. are you saying if you take a print to have it framed then the framer owns it?

give over :)
 
Though not exactly the same type of shop but I have seen in dry cleaners a notice declaring that cleaning not collected in 6 months will by disposed of.

You sold the prints.....the owner took them for framing........not collected.....shop covers loss by selling "their completed work".

Would you be concerned in the same way if your friend had placed the framed prints in a general auction to sell if they had needed the money?

Perhaps were I in your shoes I would go talk to the framing shop and see if you could develop some print sales with them.
 
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I would have thought that once you've sold a print to someone they have the right to do whatever they chose with it. They can't duplicate it but the single physical print they've purchased is now theirs. If the framing shop has taken them in lieu of debt then I can't see why they would be in the wrong to sell them on. They're just another commodity at this point, surely?
 
KIPAX said:
This guys is the framer.. are you saying if you take a print to have it framed then the framer owns it?

give over :)
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He's saying that if you take a print to have it framed and then don't pay for and collect it then the framer has a right to attempt to recoup his loss by selling it. That's the same for most products and services; why should a print be any different?
 
You sold the prints.
The framer has taken possession of the prints due to non-payment for services
He can sell them on perfectly legally so long as he's not making copies.
It's not a copyright issue.
 
A friend of mine has a framing shop and he has a sign clearly displayed in his shop stating that orders not collected after 3 months may be sold. Maybe this isn't legally watertight but what kind of person would spend money on a legal claim instead of paying for and collecting his order?
 
KIPAX said:
This guys is the framer.. are you saying if you take a print to have it framed then the framer owns it?

give over :)
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Yes, he has a financial interest in the print due to non payment.

In this case, the framer didn't make the print but... If the customer to the framer owns the print, the framer has taken ownership in leu of payment re the customers commission, which he could feasibly then sell on. This takes it into the realms of civil dispute if the print owner should wish, to recoup the cost of the print (which would be counter productive as the customer still owes payment anyway) but unless it's worth a considerable amount of money, no one would bother surely.
 
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KIPAX said:
This guys is the framer.. are you saying if you take a print to have it framed then the framer owns it?

give over :)
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That's not the point, someone has left the framer a print to frame, so they've commissioned a work that they're no longer prepared to pay for. The only way for the contractor to recoup his costs on the job is to find s new buyer.
The friend has effectively given away the print.

If you sold a print of an U16 footballer to a mum, who gave it to gran, then the footballer got signed and grandma sold the print on, that's none of your business. It becomes so only if grandma starts making copies.
 
I'm failing to see what the problem is here, the framer is not I presume claiming ownership of the original image (copyright) and has not reproduced your image, but is selling on the original prints you sold to your friend, you've sold a print someone else is now re-selling that specific print your outrage would be akin to your local car dealer getting upset to find out that someone who purchased a car from them a couple of years ago is now selling it to someone else...once you've sold the physical print ownership of that physical item transfers to the new owner it's then there's to do with what they see fit within the scope of copyright...
 
KIPAX said:
This guys is the framer.. are you saying if you take a print to have it framed then the framer owns it?

give over :)
Click to expand...

If they have not been collected within a certain amount of time and as long as the framer has given the owner notice of some kind. A letter, email or even in their terms and conditions then they are within their rights to sell the goods to offset costs.

We had a similar clause in out T&C at a certain well known computer shop. If a customer brought their PC in for repairs and it wasn't collected within 3 months we had the right to dispose of the goods. (We never sold them, but could have)
 
Wissel said:
I think if I were in your situation I'd go and have a chat with the framer, see how much interest he has had and ask if he'd like to buy more prints to sell.
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That's my exact thought. They obviously think they're good enough to sell, why not introduce yourself & look at arranging a deal of some sort!
 
Ferj said:
That's my exact thought. They obviously think they're good enough to sell, why not introduce yourself & look at arranging a deal of some sort!
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+1 for this approach.

Regarding the OP from the dim and distant past I recall it's a right of lien the framer has to recover their debt...needs a lawyer to be sure of that one
 
A quick follow up, the owner was hard to catch up with but finally caught up with him today.

He loved the prints and said they sold very quickly and generated good interest. So we've struck up a deal and I now have another outlet for selling my prints. :D

Thanks to everyone who replied.
 
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