Advice please! Affordable wide angle for Sony A7II?

LotusExige

LotusExige

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Hi guys,

Firstly, hi, I'm new and I'm a complete novice so please excuse any stupid questions...

A bit of background
For around the last year I have been using a Sony NEX6 with a Sony SEL55210 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 and a Sony DT 16–50mm F2.8 SSM (SAL1650). This set up wasn't by choice, a good friend was selling the NEX with the telephoto for a price I couldn't refuse and although it was good enough for me to get up to speed, I soon realised I needed a wide angle and the A-Mount lens was very affordable. This was all fine but I was starting to get to the point where I wanted to print my images and get a bit better performance all round so had been considering an upgrade to full frame for a couple of months. However, I've had my hand forced as I dropped my camera over a wall and it fell a good distance over the other side. The NEX6 and telephoto are now sadly departed.
I shoot 60% landscapes, 40% wildlife. Increasingly my landscape shots have been happening prior to sunrise or post sunset and along with the wildlife shots, ramping up the ISO has obviously given me a noise problem with the old kit I've been using.

Of course I could just replace what I had for reasonably cheap money but it seems silly to do that if I was already thinking about moving to full frame anyway.

So, I've done some thinking and I'm going to bite the bullet and move up to a Sony A7II and get a Sony SEL70300G E 70-300mm F/4.5-5.6 Oss G, hopefully with some Black Friday discounts!

My problem is the wide angle. The A7II and the 70-300 is going to pretty much wipe out my budget for the time being so I need an affordable wide lens until I can get something better, which realistically will probably be this time next year. My 16-50 was in my bag at the time of the fall so I still have that and I know I can use it on the A7II with an adapter but I have no idea if that's going to be acceptable or if it's going to cause bad vignetting or other issues. In addition, I'd like to start doing a bit of astrophotography (although this definitely isn't a priority) so obviously a faster lens is better but as I'm looking for something affordable I think that may be out of the question?

I've had a good look around and educated myself as much as I can, but oh wow, it's a minefield! So, your thoughts or advice on an affordable E-Mount wide angle (a prime lens would be no problem as long as it's wide enough) would be greatly appreciated. I'm happy to buy used if that helps too, as it's only a short term solution.

Sorry if any of this sounds decidedly novice, I'm aware I still have lots to learn!

Cheers

P.
 
The 16-50 will work in crop-mode so you'll get around 10-12MP images using that.

Budget wide angle:
there's a 28-70 kit zoom that can be had used for £150 upwards, and is probably better than a typical kit zoom.
Also the 28 f2 seems pretty good, and be had used for £250 upwards.
Samyang make tiny 35 f2.8 and 24 f2.8 lenses, available used around £200 each. I have the 35 and it's a good lens, but the 24 has a slightly mixed reputation.
Samyang recently released an 18 f2.8 that can be had grey for about £270 new.

Alternatively you can buy a used LA-EA4 adapter with built in AF for Minilta/Sony A mount lenses, cost around £150-£170 used and then there's a world of cheap (but often slightly less good) lenses open to you. Plenty of inexpensive 28-70 f2.8s, 28 f2.8 etc. in A mount.

Avoid - the Zeiss 24-70 f4. It's not a bad lens, but doesn't seem significantly better than the kit lens for 2-3 times the price. I also had a 50 f1.8 bought from Amazon on a sale day for £135 - sent it back because focussing was really poor.
 
ancient_mariner said:
The 16-50 will work in crop-mode so you'll get around 10-12MP images using that.

Budget wide angle:
there's a 28-70 kit zoom that can be had used for £150 upwards, and is probably better than a typical kit zoom.
Also the 28 f2 seems pretty good, and be had used for £250 upwards.
Samyang make tiny 35 f2.8 and 24 f2.8 lenses, available used around £200 each. I have the 35 and it's a good lens, but the 24 has a slightly mixed reputation.
Samyang recently released an 18 f2.8 that can be had grey for about £270 new.

Alternatively you can buy a used LA-EA4 adapter with built in AF for Minilta/Sony A mount lenses, cost around £150-£170 used and then there's a world of cheap (but often slightly less good) lenses open to you. Plenty of inexpensive 28-70 f2.8s, 28 f2.8 etc. in A mount.

Avoid - the Zeiss 24-70 f4. It's not a bad lens, but doesn't seem significantly better than the kit lens for 2-3 times the price. I also had a 50 f1.8 bought from Amazon on a sale day for £135 - sent it back because focussing was really poor.
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Hi Toni, thanks for taking the time to write all that out. Much appreciated. That Samyang 18mm f2.8 is looking like it might be a good temporary solution. But given what you have said, the extra flexibility of my existing 16-50 would be nice, although obviously having to use crop mode seems silly if I'm moving to FF anyway.

Decisions still to be made I guess but at least I know there's a workable option for the time being.

Cheers and have a good day.

P.
 
If you're ok with MF you could get a film era 17, 19 or 24mm. Camera brand lenses can be expensive but third party ones can be cheaper. I have 17mm Tokiona, 19mm Vivitar and 24mm Miranda lenses which were all reasonably priced, and an adapter from £10 or so and up and you're good to go.
 
woof woof said:
If you're ok with MF you could get a film era 17, 19 or 24mm. Camera brand lenses can be expensive but third party ones can be cheaper. I have 17mm Tokiona, 19mm Vivitar and 24mm Miranda lenses which were all reasonably priced, and an adapter from £10 or so and up and you're good to go.
Click to expand...

Hi Alan, thanks for this. When I started taking photographs around this time last year I was under the impression that I needed to go full manual for everything, so I spent at least the first 3 months only using MF. :D I'd have no trouble at all with manual only!

As I said, it's only a stop gap until I have the funds for something more serious anyway. Thanks for the extra points to consider.
 
LotusExige said:
Hi Alan, thanks for this. When I started taking photographs around this time last year I was under the impression that I needed to go full manual for everything, so I spent at least the first 3 months only using MF. :D I'd have no trouble at all with manual only!

As I said, it's only a stop gap until I have the funds for something more serious anyway. Thanks for the extra points to consider.
Click to expand...

Oh dear, who have you been talking to? :D We've had auto focus for weeks now :D
 
woof woof said:
Oh dear, who have you been talking to? :D We've had auto focus for weeks now :D
Click to expand...

Ha!

I'm sure you can imagine how amazed I was when I first tried AF and it actually worked! I was under the impression that to do things properly I had to be full manual everything. Then I discovered AF. And aperture priority...

Every day is a school day right?

:)
 
On a budget (un-adapted) kit zoom or one of the Samyang primes. You can always stitch images (especially if using a tripod)

I have a Samyang 24/1.4 (Canon mount) for Astro - picked it up used for £210 >>> EDIT - it is a bit of a lump though for everyday shooting.
 
LeeRatters said:
On a budget (un-adapted) kit zoom or one of the Samyang primes. You can always stitch images (especially if using a tripod)

I have a Samyang 24/1.4 (Canon mount) for Astro - picked it up used for £210 >>> EDIT - it is a bit of a lump though for everyday shooting.
Click to expand...

Cheers Lee. I'm definitely edging towards the Samyang but probably the 18mm f2.8
 
LotusExige said:
Cheers Lee. I'm definitely edging towards the Samyang but probably the 18mm f2.8
Click to expand...

I can't really recommend them from personal use as I don't own them. Well, I swapped my Zony 35/2.8 out for the Samyang 35/2.8 early this year, took some test shots with it, bought my boy an A6000 & 12/2 for Astro, he borrowed the 35mm & I haven't seen it since......!!
 
LotusExige said:
Cheers Lee. I'm definitely edging towards the Samyang but probably the 18mm f2.8
Click to expand...

The one comment I'd make about that is that it's EXTREMELY wide compared to the 16-50 on crop (equivalent of 24-75 FF). If you know what you're doing then there's no reason you shouldn't buy it, but there will be a very large gap in coverage between the 70-300 and the 18mm. If you're not certain then I'd quite strongly recommend the kit zoom & buy something wider later if you feel the need.

FWIW I do have some quite wide lenses here: Voigtlander 19-35 (sony A mount) Sigma 21-35 and 12-24 (Nikon mount). None of them are really suitable for general use, although the 2 zooms with 35mm at the long end can be OK in a street setting. The 12-24 is a special-purpose lens only, that I carry if I think there will be some interior work or I want to distort perspective outside.
 
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LeeRatters said:
I can't really recommend them from personal use as I don't own them. Well, I swapped my Zony 35/2.8 out for the Samyang 35/2.8 early this year, took some test shots with it, bought my boy an A6000 & 12/2 for Astro, he borrowed the 35mm & I haven't seen it since......!!
Click to expand...

Ha! I'd see that as a good favour to be cashed in further down the line mate!
 
ancient_mariner said:
The one comment I'd make about that is that it's EXTREMELY wide compared to the 16-50 on crop (equivalent of 24-75 FF). If you know what you're doing then there's no reason you shouldn't buy it, but there will be a very large gap in coverage between the 70-300 and the 18mm. If you're not certain then I'd quite strongly recommend the kit zoom & buy something wider later if you feel the need.

FWIW I do have some quite wide lenses here: Voigtlander 19-35 (sony A mount) Sigma 21-35 and 12-24 (Nikon mount). None of them are really suitable for general use, although the 2 zooms with 35mm at the long end can be OK in a street setting.
Click to expand...

Toni, you have voiced my concerns much better than I had them in my head. Thank you.

"If you know what you're doing..." erm, honestly not even vaguely. I'm just one step up from complete novice I'd say. That's why I'm here! :) My training consists of watching a few videos about how the exposure triangle works and then I've been winging it from there and working it out as I go along. I didn't really think I'd gain much from going too far into technical stuff to begin with so immersed myself in the more theoretical side. But I'm ready to learn properly now I think.

I can tell you that I've had a good look through a lot of images I took with the 16-50 and I'd guess around 60% were at 16mm. So yeah, the majority but I know I'd miss the flexibility. Often when shooting landscapes, I'm at the edge of a drop so walking further isn't an option of course. But, also for the first I don't know how long, all I had was the 55-210 so was used to the opposite restriction! I shot lots of panos :LOL:

But then there isn't really a work around the other way around!

See, writing all this out is making me wonder if I wouldn't be better sticking with the old 16-50 (which I've been reasonably happy with) turning the auto crop off and dealing with it as best I can with some cropping and vignette adjustment in post. Again, it's just a stop gap until I can afford something proper. Also bear in mind what I've been shooting with so far, it wouldn't be like I was losing anything, just not gaining the bigger pixel count. Temporarily...

Thanks for listening!
 
woof woof said:
If you're ok with MF you could get a film era 17, 19 or 24mm. Camera brand lenses can be expensive but third party ones can be cheaper. I have 17mm Tokiona, 19mm Vivitar and 24mm Miranda lenses which were all reasonably priced, and an adapter from £10 or so and up and you're good to go.
Click to expand...
+1.
I would go along with Alan and for not a lot of money, think about a legacy lens - even more affordable if you go 28mm instead of something wider.
given your planned usage (60% landscape, 40% wildlife), I’m guessing that almost all of the wide stuff will be landscape. If so, manual focus, etc shouldn’t be an issue.
I say this as someone who purchased an A73 earlier this year with the main aim of using legacy lenses for most of what I do. I currently have a 24mm Canon FD and three 28mms which ranged in price from a paltry £20/25 for my third party lens to £200 for my Zeiss. On top, I had to add £15 for a Sony E adapter (I use K&F) and unlike some, I don’t have a separate adapter for each lens. About the only thing I won’t use these lenses for as fast moving grandchildren!
 
No reason not to *try* the 16-50 as a stop gap, but in your situation I'd try to PX it against that 28-70, which I think would give substantially higher image quality because it would use all of the sensor.

Or as suggested, you could grab a manual 24mm FF lens (equivalent to 16mm on crop) and a £20 manual adapter.
 
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goinggreynow said:
+1.
I would go along with Alan and for not a lot of money, think about a legacy lens - even more affordable if you go 28mm instead of something wider.
given your planned usage (60% landscape, 40% wildlife), I’m guessing that almost all of the wide stuff will be landscape. If so, manual focus, etc shouldn’t be an issue.
I say this as someone who purchased an A73 earlier this year with the main aim of using legacy lenses for most of what I do. I currently have a 24mm Canon FD and three 28mms which ranged in price from a paltry £20/25 for my third party lens to £200 for my Zeiss. On top, I had to add £15 for a Sony E adapter (I use K&F) and unlike some, I don’t have a separate adapter for each lens. About the only thing I won’t use these lenses for as fast moving grandchildren!
Click to expand...

ancient_mariner said:
No reason not to *try* the 16-50 as a stop gap, but in your situation I'd try to PX it against that 28-70, which I think would give substantially higher image quality because it would use all of the sensor.

Or as suggested, you could grab a manual 24mm FF lens (equivalent to 16mm on crop) and a £20 manual adapter.
Click to expand...

You guys are awesome thank you.

@ancient_mariner you mean this one?
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/sony-fe-28-70mm-f3-5-5-6-oss-lens-used-1723141/

If so I have a bit more budget to play with than that. Double easily. Anything that would be a worthy step up?

@goinggreynow you're absolutely right. All the wide angle shooting has been landscapes and maybe 75% of that on a tripod. So yeah, MF isn't an issue.

And to both of you...

Ok, I'm intrigued. What would be a better move, going with the 28-70 Sony (or similar) or spending £3-400 on something older with an adapter? Is faster always better? Does any of this really matter if I'm planning on getting something proper in a year or less?

:)

Cheers guys, owe you one already!
 
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LotusExige said:
you mean this one?
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/sony-fe-28-70mm-f3-5-5-6-oss-lens-used-1723141/
Click to expand...

Yup, that's the one. The lens that's the obvious step up - Zeiss Sony 24-70 f4 - seems to be sharp in the middle but soft at the edges at all apertures. I wonder a little if they have a consistency problem because I've seen images taken with that lens both in reviews and as raw files from someone here, that were quite soft at the sides. However I've also seen a few other pictures shot with that lens which appeared crisp edge-to-edge. I would not buy one, but they seem to start at £400 used.

The next step up is the 24-105G f4 which is quite expensive (£800+ used) but very good. Above that is the 24-70 f2.8 GM, and that's quite a lot of money.

If you want to try the adapter route for that much money then consider a used Sigma MC11 and a Canon 24-105 that will probably autofocus OK with the Sony.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Yup, that's the one. The lens that's the obvious step up - Zeiss Sony 24-70 f4 - seems to be sharp in the middle but soft at the edges at all apertures. I wonder a little if they have a consistency problem because I've seen images taken with that lens both in reviews and as raw files from someone here, that were quite soft at the sides. However I've also seen a few other pictures shot with that lens which appeared crisp edge-to-edge. I would not buy one, but they seem to start at £400 used.

The next step up is the 24-105G f4 which is quite expensive (£800+ used) but very good. Above that is the 24-70 f2.8 GM, and that's quite a lot of money.

If you want to try the adapter route for that much money then consider a used Sigma MC11 and a Canon 24-105 that will probably autofocus OK with the Sony.
Click to expand...

Toni, once again, you're awesome. Really appreciate your help.

So you're saving me money! That's not a bad thing right? :)

The G Master is exactly what I'd be aiming for next year. Hmmm... so maybe the kit lens then. As you said right at the start!

I'm going to have a good look at those adapted lenses you mentioned and see what I think.

Thank you!
 
FWIW I moved across from Nikon to Sony early this year, buying a used A7III body. I didn't really like manual adapted lenses, even though I happily used those same lenses on my Nikon system, and ended up selling the 50 f1.4 I bought expecting to use manual lenses for a lot of stuff, so that I could buy the 24-105. I loved the 50 f1.4, but it was the right decision, and it's a good lens.
 
LotusExige said:
You guys are awesome thank you.

@ancient_mariner you mean this one?
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/sony-fe-28-70mm-f3-5-5-6-oss-lens-used-1723141/

If so I have a bit more budget to play with than that. Double easily. Anything that would be a worthy step up?

@goinggreynow you're absolutely right. All the wide angle shooting has been landscapes and maybe 75% of that on a tripod. So yeah, MF isn't an issue.

And to both of you...

Ok, I'm intrigued. What would be a better move, going with the 28-70 Sony (or similar) or spending £3-400 on something older with an adapter? Is faster always better? Does any of this really matter if I'm planning on getting something proper in a year or less?

:)

Cheers guys, owe you one already!
Click to expand...
I bought a new A7ii last week with the 28-70mm lens.
So far it's my only lens, and I've been pleasantly surprised with the results.
Bought the kit brand new on Ebay for £650.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
No reason not to *try* the 16-50 as a stop gap, but in your situation I'd try to PX it against that 28-70, which I think would give substantially higher image quality because it would use all of the sensor.
Click to expand...

^^^^ This.

The standard kit lens isn't a bad buy for the amount of money they fetch imo Just don't expect to easily sell it on afterwards unless for peanuts ;)

I have one ......at my son's house!! :rolleyes:

My most used "landscape" lens is 40mm f/1.2
 
If I was on a low budget and as a stop gap I would go with the 28-70 kit lens. It can be had for a good price and may be easier to shift on eBay etc later though probably at a lower price. I’d stay away from anything really wide (ie wider than 24mm). 16mm on full frame is really wide especially if you’re used to what it 24mm on a crop body.

I’m guessing your end goal is a combination of 24-105 and 70-300. I’ve currently got the 24-105 and 100-400. Between the two they cover majority of my needs.
 
LotusExige said:
You guys are awesome thank you.

@ancient_mariner you mean this one?
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/sony-fe-28-70mm-f3-5-5-6-oss-lens-used-1723141/

If so I have a bit more budget to play with than that. Double easily. Anything that would be a worthy step up?

@goinggreynow you're absolutely right. All the wide angle shooting has been landscapes and maybe 75% of that on a tripod. So yeah, MF isn't an issue.

And to both of you...

Ok, I'm intrigued. What would be a better move, going with the 28-70 Sony (or similar) or spending £3-400 on something older with an adapter? Is faster always better? Does any of this really matter if I'm planning on getting something proper in a year or less?

:)

Cheers guys, owe you one already!
Click to expand...
sorry that I can’t comment on the 28-70 as I’ve never used one. When I purchased my A73 it was body only and I added a Samyang 35mm so that I had at least one AF lens. Other than this, I have around 15/16 manual lenses to play with.
if you really are looking at something wide as a stop-gap only (and assuming you’re OK with manual everything) then I would have thought that picking up a legacy lens with adapter would be one of the cheapest/cost effective options. selling on when you’re ready to upgrade shouldn’t mean you lose too much in terms of depreciation.
There should be no need to spend any more than say £100 for a decent (middle of the road) lens with adapter - less if you’re happy to go 3rd party. this does assume that. 28mm would be OK. If 24mm or wider then the cost will ramp up.
One thing to look out for though is the quality/condition of the lens. Dust is not the main issue but haze and fungus on the elements can be. Over the last few years I’ve been lucky with most of the lenses I’ve picked up, but along the way I’ve acquired a few with fungus on the glass. Although often possible to clean, it’s not something I would recommend to anyone!
Other than auction sites, there are a number of high street and on-line retailers who sell legacy lenses for sensible money & this should give you added peace of mind and even a 3/6 month guarantee in some cases.
if you’d like any further info, don’t hesitate to drop me a PM.
Hope some of the above is if help. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
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LotusExige said:
Ha!

I'm sure you can imagine how amazed I was when I first tried AF and it actually worked! I was under the impression that to do things properly I had to be full manual everything. Then I discovered AF. And aperture priority...

Every day is a school day right?

:)
Click to expand...

Some people say this and it's often possibly not the absolutely optimum way to do things :D You might find instances in which doing everything manually is the best way but maybe these instances will be for few and specialised uses.

I usually use aperture priority with auto ISO until the light level drops and causes the shutter speed to become too low then I switch to manual exposure mode and dial in suitable aperture and shutter speed settings, again with auto ISO. I'd only select the ISO manually as a deliberate decision in specific instances and although I do like manual focus lenses when anything requires or pushes me towards doing things quicker, such as people shots or when I'm with other people and don't want to be the geek with the camera slowing everything up AF is usually the answer.

Hope you settle on a lens soon :D
 
goinggreynow said:
sorry that I can’t comment on the 28-70 as I’ve never used one.
Click to expand...

I think it's a very capable standard range variable aperture zoom. Not that I've used hundreds of kit lenses but of those I've used this lens is probably the best. Any optical nasties such as vignetting and distortion and the like are IMO well within reason and well within the range that popular image processing software can easily correct and the lens is sharp enough from wide open plus it's relatively compact, light and cheap. This lens plus a wide aperture prime could well satisfy many peoples uses, including mine :D It's only real limitation is the f3.5-5.6 aperture range but it's fine for good light use and being f2.8 would almost certainly make it bigger, heavier and more expensive.
 
rob-nikon said:
If you’re willing to go used Camera Jungle currently have 20% off. There is a good condition A7ii there for £589 so £471 after the 20%. That may leave a bit more budget for a wide lens.

https://www.camerajungle.co.uk/products/67782/sony-a7-mkii-mirrorless-camera-body/179156
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Rob, thanks a lot for that link!

I have no problem buying used BUT... it's rated as "good". Now I have zero need for it to look brand new, I don't at all mind signs of wear, as long as it performs as it should. My experience of buying used camera gear is the purchase of just one lens. Which has been great but it was rated as "like new".

What do you think? Am I worrying too much? I always think if something seems too good to be true, there's a reason! Budget is tight but not quite that tight. Would I be better spending around £650 and go with something in a bit better condition / lower shutter count from WEX or MPB etc?

Good to know I'm not missing much in the classifieds! :)

And thanks for your thoughts on the kit lens. At the price it's available for, it seems silly not to if I'm intending to upgrade properly further down the line.

Really appreciate the help mate.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I bought a new A7ii last week with the 28-70mm lens.
So far it's my only lens, and I've been pleasantly surprised with the results.
Bought the kit brand new on Ebay for £650.
Click to expand...

Brand new body and kit lens for £650???!!! That's an absolute steal mate. I'd have jumped all over that. I may well end up spending more than that on a used one! Jealous.

And thanks for your thoughts on the kit lens. The more I hear and look into it, it seems a no brainer.
 
LeeRatters said:
^^^^ This.

The standard kit lens isn't a bad buy for the amount of money they fetch imo Just don't expect to easily sell it on afterwards unless for peanuts ;)

I have one ......at my son's house!! :rolleyes:

My most used "landscape" lens is 40mm f/1.2
Click to expand...

Cheers Lee. And given the purchase price, resell value just isn't an issue.
 
woof woof said:
Some people say this and it's often possibly not the absolutely optimum way to do things :D You might find instances in which doing everything manually is the best way but maybe these instances will be for few and specialised uses.

I usually use aperture priority with auto ISO until the light level drops and causes the shutter speed to become too low then I switch to manual exposure mode and dial in suitable aperture and shutter speed settings, again with auto ISO. I'd only select the ISO manually as a deliberate decision in specific instances and although I do like manual focus lenses when anything requires or pushes me towards doing things quicker, such as people shots or when I'm with other people and don't want to be the geek with the camera slowing everything up AF is usually the answer.

Hope you settle on a lens soon :D
Click to expand...

Cheers Alan.

Given that most of my shooting up until now has been on a tripod, of course it's much easier as ISO just gets set to its lowest and I just have to think about DoF and then dial in the shutter speed to get the exposure right. And I pretty much always bracket too.

Obviously now I'm taking a lot more wildlife shots handheld, I've got SO much to learn. But I'm absolutely loving the learning process and the successes are a thrill even though they're few and far between!
 
LotusExige said:
Rob, thanks a lot for that link!

I have no problem buying used BUT... it's rated as "good". Now I have zero need for it to look brand new, I don't at all mind signs of wear, as long as it performs as it should. My experience of buying used camera gear is the purchase of just one lens. Which has been great but it was rated as "like new".
Click to expand...

Two weeks ago, I bought the last A7ii that CJ had at the exact same price. I think that was also rated as 'good'.

I am very happy with it - minor bugbear is the protective screen on the LCD is delaminating a bit (a distraction rather than a problem, and easily fixable when I can get around to it). Cosmetically, the previous owner has blacked-out the white Sony logo on the 'prism' bump (weird!) and there's a little bit of paint wear on the underside from tripod mount/dismount.

You can always return it via CJ's no-quibble process. (14 days I think).
 
goldtop said:
Two weeks ago, I bought the last A7ii that CJ had at the exact same price. I think that was also rated as 'good'.

I am very happy with it - minor bugbear is the protective screen on the LCD is delaminating a bit (a distraction rather than a problem, and easily fixable when I can get around to it). Cosmetically, the previous owner has blacked-out the white Sony logo on the 'prism' bump (weird!) and there's a little bit of paint wear on the underside from tripod mount/dismount.

You can always return it via CJ's no-quibble process. (14 days I think).
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Goldtop. I'm pretty happy with your report there. I think I'll wait to see what Black Friday turns up and if nothing, I'll go with that one from CJ, presuming it's still there of course!
 
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