Advice on Using Flash with Entirely Manual, Non TTL Camera

[s162216]

Hi,

I have just ordered an external hotshoe with PC sync lead so that I can use a flash on my Zenit EM as flash sync leads don't seem to come less than 1m anymore for a reasonable price. As I do some macro shots, the flash will be very useful as I will not have to wait for the light coming in the window to be bright enough.

I have two questions:

1. The flash has a table on its side for what aperture to use. Is this the same for all flash sync speeds as mine syncs at 1/30 sec?
2. What in terms of adding stops on do I have to do if using a teleconverter or my 80 - 200 zoom lens? Do I still have to add on 2 stops?
3. From reading around I know that diffusing the flash is a good way of reducing hard shadows. If I simply use a bit of foam in front of the flash, will this affect what aperture I will have to use?

The flash is a National PE-200.

BTW, don't laugh like some people do at the fact that I use a Zenit EM , it can actually take some really good pictures and besides, being totally manual makes it more fun. Hopefully my parents are giving me the lightmeter I asked for, for Christmas as then my pictures will hopefully look even better due to greater lightmeter accuracy!

 

[Richard King]

Hi,

I have just ordered an external hotshoe with PC sync lead so that I can use a flash on my Zenit EM as flash sync leads don't seem to come less than 1m anymore for a reasonable price. As I do some macro shots, the flash will be very useful as I will not have to wait for the light coming in the window to be bright enough.

I have two questions:

1. The flash has a table on its side for what aperture to use. Is this the same for all flash sync speeds as mine syncs at 1/30 sec?
2. What in terms of adding stops on do I have to do if using a teleconverter or my 80 - 200 zoom lens? Do I still have to add on 2 stops?
3. From reading around I know that diffusing the flash is a good way of reducing hard shadows. If I simply use a bit of foam in front of the flash, will this affect what aperture I will have to use?

The flash is a National PE-200.

BTW, don't laugh like some people do at the fact that I use a Zenit EM , it can actually take some really good pictures and besides, being totally manual makes it more fun. Hopefully my parents are giving me the lightmeter I asked for, for Christmas as then my pictures will hopefully look even better due to greater lightmeter accuracy!

Your GN will be 20 for that flash

Plug the numbers in here: http://oregoncoastphotoclub.tripod.com/calcs/flash.htm. If you use a modifier, light output is reduced

I used a Zenit E as my first SLR, there are some very good lenses avail for it. Don't assume the shutter speed is accurate

 

[s162216]

Are you sure that calculator works correctly? According to the table on the side of the flash, at 200 ISO, 6 ft away from subject, the aperture I should use should be 16 yet the calculator tells me it should be about 2.5 when using a guide number of 20.
Other calculators such as this one:http://www.steveszone.co.uk/aperture_calculator.shtmlMatch up with the table.

 

[Richard King]

Are you sure that calculator works correctly? According to the table on the side of the flash, at 200 ISO, 6 ft away from subject, the aperture I should use should be 16 yet the calculator tells me it should be about 2.5 when using a guide number of 20.
Other calculators such as this one:http://www.steveszone.co.uk/aperture_calculator.shtmlMatch up with the table.

I agree with you. looks like they stuffed up the formula, or are (not) converting to metres or similar

 

[HoppyUK]

Hi,

I have just ordered an external hotshoe with PC sync lead so that I can use a flash on my Zenit EM as flash sync leads don't seem to come less than 1m anymore for a reasonable price. As I do some macro shots, the flash will be very useful as I will not have to wait for the light coming in the window to be bright enough.

I have two questions:

1. The flash has a table on its side for what aperture to use. Is this the same for all flash sync speeds as mine syncs at 1/30 sec?

1. 
   
   Yes.
   
   

   [*]What in terms of adding stops on do I have to do if using a teleconverter or my 80 - 200 zoom lens? Do I still have to add on 2 stops?

   
   Yes, two stops for a 2x teleconverter.
   
   
   

   [*]From reading around I know that diffusing the flash is a good way of reducing hard shadows. If I simply use a bit of foam in front of the flash, will this affect what aperture I will have to use?

Foam will block most of the light. Use tracing paper, or greaseproof cooking paper, or even a thin sheet of printing paper. You will still have to adjust the exposure, by one or two stops as a very rough guess and starting point for experiments. The exposure factor will also vary depending on the distance from the flash to the paper, as well as the paper to the subject, so take notes.

The exposure table is only a very rough guide and actual exposure depends on lots of circumstances. In the absence of a flash meter, make your best guess and shoot a wide range of exposures either side, taking careful notes for future reference, varying the lens aperture and flash-to-subject distance.

The flash is a National PE-200.

BTW, don't laugh like some people do at the fact that I use a Zenit EM , it can actually take some really good pictures and besides, being totally manual makes it more fun. Hopefully my parents are giving me the lightmeter I asked for, for Christmas as then my pictures will hopefully look even better due to greater lightmeter accuracy!

I'm not laughing, and I took some great pictures on my Zenit 3M, which was even more basic than the EM Can't say I miss it much though, it was a mechanically crude camera even in the 70s, and for this kind of thing, the instant replay of digital is an absolute Godsend.

 

[Lensflare]

Do you have a light meter that will read flash? If not borrow one - for about an hour.

For softening, a white handkerchief was the standard diffuser for the savvy photographer on the move in those days, a handkerchief and a rubber band - greasepoof paper turns the light grey, so you need to warm it up.

Tracing paper is much better - but an 80-20 diffuser is only £45 and is excellent and you can use it on ANY flashgun of hot shoe size.

having borrowed your flah meter and decided on your easiest/cheapest form of diffusion (how about some polystyrene roof tiles and bounce the flash off them - or a big polystyrene packing out of a fridge/stereo/microwave...somethng like that - free because otherwise they have to dispose of it!)

Now, get a piece of string about 8 feet long. Tie a knot in one end. Set up your set-up. Put something where you are going to have your subject (it doesn't matter what it is). Camera on tripod and flash attached - just so it stays in the same place. Sellotape the knot on the string to the flash head, under the tube. An inch isn't going ot matter.

Choose an aperture to set the camera to (f8 is a good starting point). Now, with the flash meter at the subject pointing at your flash, set up on the tripod, to keep it in one place. Fire the flash. What does the meter say - if it says much less than f8 move the camera/flash forward a bit. If it is says f11 - move it back a bit. Find the position (distance) you get exactly f8 on the flash meter when the flash fires.

Now take your piece of string and tie a knot in it, accurately, at the distance from your flash to the subject at this f8 distance. It is now indelibly marked forever in your piece of string. That distance is f8 at that power on your flash, wherever you are, whatever you are shooting whatever ambient light is around - that distance gives you f8 from your flash.

Move the flash a bit closer until you get exactly f11. Tie two knots together here. You now have a string meter for f8 and f11. Guess what. The same distance from f8 to f11 on your string done the other way will give you f5.6. Move the camera/flash/tripod back until you have it the same distance away from the subject of your f8 position PLUS your f11 extra 9between f8 and f11)

example:
f8 = 5 feet away. (It might not be, these are just figures out of my head to explain).

f11 = 3 feet away.

SO, f5.6 SHOULD be 5 feet + 3 feet. = 8 feet away....but check it with the meter just to be on the safe side. When you find the exact distance that gives f5.6. Tie a knot in your string.

You now have a light meter that will wrap around your flash gun.....two knots to end of string = f11. 1 knot = f8 (in the middle of your knots) and one knot other way - longest end = f5.6.

SIMPLES. You can modify your knot system and the number of f stops you meter for to suit yourself. BUT the thing is, once you have the distance that flash gives EXACTLY f8 - thats ut, it will always be that distance (unless you stick something in front - in which case do it again with aanother piece fo string and your chosen diffuser - use a string with a red marker on it to tell which is which.

 

[s162216]

Unfortunately I don't know anyone that I can borrow a flash meter off and I don't really want to have to buy one as I will only use it once or twice probably.

Is there any other way of doing it? I could I suppose try shooting off a cheap roll of film that I got free and with the flash diffused and using different distances to work out what one was best.

 

[Lensflare]

Put in where you are on your name board and there willbe bound to be someone from here close toyou who could come round and act as meter man for you...there is no short cut route, unless you want to waste a roll of film on EVERY aperture.

 

[CT]

Do you have a light meter that will read flash? If not borrow one - for about an hour.

For softening, a white handkerchief was the standard diffuser for the savvy photographer on the move in those days, a handkerchief and a rubber band - greasepoof paper turns the light grey, so you need to warm it up.

Tracing paper is much better - but an 80-20 diffuser is only £45 and is excellent and you can use it on ANY flashgun of hot shoe size.

having borrowed your flah meter and decided on your easiest/cheapest form of diffusion (how about some polystyrene roof tiles and bounce the flash off them - or a big polystyrene packing out of a fridge/stereo/microwave...somethng like that - free because otherwise they have to dispose of it!)

Now, get a piece of string about 8 feet long. Tie a knot in one end. Set up your set-up. Put something where you are going to have your subject (it doesn't matter what it is). Camera on tripod and flash attached - just so it stays in the same place. Sellotape the knot on the string to the flash head, under the tube. An inch isn't going ot matter.

Choose an aperture to set the camera to (f8 is a good starting point). Now, with the flash meter at the subject pointing at your flash, set up on the tripod, to keep it in one place. Fire the flash. What does the meter say - if it says much less than f8 move the camera/flash forward a bit. If it is says f11 - move it back a bit. Find the position (distance) you get exactly f8 on the flash meter when the flash fires.

Now take your piece of string and tie a knot in it, accurately, at the distance from your flash to the subject at this f8 distance. It is now indelibly marked forever in your piece of string. That distance is f8 at that power on your flash, wherever you are, whatever you are shooting whatever ambient light is around - that distance gives you f8 from your flash.

Move the flash a bit closer until you get exactly f11. Tie two knots together here. You now have a string meter for f8 and f11. Guess what. The same distance from f8 to f11 on your string done the other way will give you f5.6. Move the camera/flash/tripod back until you have it the same distance away from the subject of your f8 position PLUS your f11 extra 9between f8 and f11)

example:
f8 = 5 feet away. (It might not be, these are just figures out of my head to explain).

f11 = 3 feet away.

SO, f5.6 SHOULD be 5 feet + 3 feet. = 8 feet away....but check it with the meter just to be on the safe side. When you find the exact distance that gives f5.6. Tie a knot in your string.

You now have a light meter that will wrap around your flash gun.....two knots to end of string = f11. 1 knot = f8 (in the middle of your knots) and one knot other way - longest end = f5.6.

SIMPLES. You can modify your knot system and the number of f stops you meter for to suit yourself. BUT the thing is, once you have the distance that flash gives EXACTLY f8 - thats ut, it will always be that distance (unless you stick something in front - in which case do it again with aanother piece fo string and your chosen diffuser - use a string with a red marker on it to tell which is which.

That's one of the most practical, helpful posts on using manual flash I've seen.