Advice on TLR's?

squishy

squishy

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I've been enjoying shooting 35mm film alongside digital for a short while now, and I've become interested in medium format. I'm on a very limited budget so I'd only be shooting very small amounts (but I find that's a good thing as it keeps me very focused on making the most of what I do shoot), and I'm not looking to spend much on the camera.

TLR's look very appealing to me as they seem to be relatively cheap and offer a distinctly different shooting experience to SLR's.

So for someone still very new to film and completely new to medium format, are there any particularly useful pieces of advice you can give me, and what TLR models would you recommend for someone on a very tight budget (I don't really want to put a number on it until I know more what I'll get for my money, but definitely under £200, that's an absolute limit).

The yashica D and mat-124/G look quite appealing with well reputed lenses, with the 124 particularly catching my eye as it has a light meter which would save time (I'd have to constantly use my ipod app or consult tables without), and I've also seen a minolta autocord in my sort of price range, which seems to be well reputed but less popular going by the amount of information I can find.

This isn't something I'll be doing immediately, just gathering information and saving funds at the moment, so any input would be greatly appreciated :).
 
Hi Adam, I'm no expert but have just got my first TLR and I'm finding it really interesting. I bought a Yashica A which is an earlier TLR than the 2 you mentioned but it was only £40 including delivery. From what I can work out the 124 is overpriced although the light meter is useful, the D looks very nice and can be had for a reasonable price.
Keep an eye on Classic Vintage cameras, Rob has a usually got a few TLRs for sale and his descriptions are very honest in fact he generally understates the condition and you get a much better camera than you expect.

Cheers

Andy
 
Andysnap said:
Hi Adam, I'm no expert but have just got my first TLR and I'm finding it really interesting. I bought a Yashica A which is an earlier TLR than the 2 you mentioned but it was only £40 including delivery. From what I can work out the 124 is overpriced although the light meter is useful, the D looks very nice and can be had for a reasonable price.
Keep an eye on Classic Vintage cameras, Rob has a usually got a few TLRs for sale and his descriptions are very honest in fact he generally understates the condition and you get a much better camera than you expect.

Cheers

Andy
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I'll look into the A, something cheaper is probably a good idea since it'll free up more money for film/processing

Thanks!
 
Okay, here are my thoughts on it.

Firstly, medium format is great. I never fell in love with 35mm much, but a big 6x6 negative is a great thing. TLRs are considered a great way to get into medium format, although please do keep in mind that they are relatively archaic and you may just not enjoy it. Limited shutter speeds (usually 1s to 1/500s tops), relatively slow lenses (most of them will be f/3.5), flipped image on ground glass, often relatively dim viewfinders.

I'd skip the lettered Yashicas and go for the better Yashica Mats - ignore the 124(G) models, because they have exactly the same Yashinon lenses that the earlier Mats do, just with the added price tag and meter. To be honest, TLR exposure meters are primitive bits of kit at best - even the top end metered Rolleiflex's are often considered best used with a light meter. A simple light meter can often be purchased relatively cheaply. The 124G's also uses old, unavailable mercury batteries - so you'd have to use a replacement instead, which can get expensive quickly.

Autocord has a good reputation as well, I'd definitely consider them on par with (or even slightly above) the Yashicas.

£200 will get you a very good Rolleicord IV/V with money left over - and they are a definite notch above the Yashicas. They were the prosumer TLR of their day, 80% of the pro performance but for a fraction of the pro price. You could probably get a Rolleiflex Automat MX in that price range as well - its their pre-WWII camera, but many of them are still used as shooters even today and they are still fine cameras.

Buying on eBay - these are often cameras that are more than half a century old, which means half a century of gunk, dust and probably little/no servicing. Going for a listing that is done by someone who evidently knows and describes the camera in detail will cost you more, but it is probably a worthwhile additional expense. Sellers that accept returns are also favourable, for this very reason.

Personally I'd buy a reasonable nick Rolleicord IV for about £90-100, get it CLA'd by Miles Whitehead for another £40, and for less than £150 you have a TLR which functionally is identical to how it came out of the factory.

Any questions on any aspect of what I've written/TLRs in general, please feel free to ask, no matter how stupid they may seem. I've gotten very into TLRs over the last year!
 
Thanks for all the advice, could I ask what it is that makes a rolleicord better than the various yashicas? I suppose general quality of build is especially important given how old they all are now.
 
200 quid to spend on a medium format camera is not really a tight budget. With that money you have a huge choice of medium format cameras ranging from folding cameras through TLRs and into more modern Pentaxes, Bronicas and Mamiyas. The only stuff that is not available on that budget are Rollie(flex) and Hasselblads. You also have the choice between 6x6, 6x9, 6x4.5. Medium format is great but given what you have to spend, you need to decide whether your priority is TLR because of the shooting experience, or big negs.

If you want TLR experience, I agree with freecom2 (but please don’t buy a Lubitel) If on the other hand you want big negs, think a bit longer as there are a lot of options. And, unless you want square pictures, you will always crop 6x6 to 6x4.5 anyway.
 
squishy said:
Thanks for all the advice, could I ask what it is that makes a rolleicord better than the various yashicas? I suppose general quality of build is especially important given how old they all are now.
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You'll know the second you pick one up. Their build quality and feel is a completely different league.

The Xenar lens on most of the later Rolleicords is superb as well.
 
I don't disagree entirely with FC2 but I think that the build quality of the single letter Yashicas is pretty sound especially compared against 95% of the cameras made since and the picture quality is pretty impressive, have a look on flickr at the Yashica A group, some stunning work on there.
I think that for £40ish it makes more sense to give it a go and see if you enjoy using a TLR before splashing out £200 on a Rollei, although you could sell it on after for the same money I suppose if you don't like it.

Andy
 
It's respectable enough for £40 level, but I'd say the vast majority of even 35mm SLRs had significantly better build quality. Yashicas are a great budget option, but build quality is not one of their strengths. It's not the main body, but it's stuff like the waist level viewfinders and the internal winding mechanism where corners are definitely cut.
 
I agree about the WLF it is a bit tinny.:thumbs:
 
Well I give a vote to the Yashica 124G, cause I have one, the lensis creaking and the light meter works well to. You can pick up px125 type batteries (not the mercury ones) from 7Day shop for not much.
 
kenm said:
200 quid to spend on a medium format camera is not really a tight budget. With that money you have a huge choice of medium format cameras ranging from folding cameras through TLRs and into more modern Pentaxes, Bronicas and Mamiyas. The only stuff that is not available on that budget are Rollie(flex) and Hasselblads. You also have the choice between 6x6, 6x9, 6x4.5. Medium format is great but given what you have to spend, you need to decide whether your priority is TLR because of the shooting experience, or big negs.

If you want TLR experience, I agree with freecom2 (but please don’t buy a Lubitel) If on the other hand you want big negs, think a bit longer as there are a lot of options. And, unless you want square pictures, you will always crop 6x6 to 6x4.5 anyway.
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£200 wasn't a budget so much as an absolute limit to the discussion if you catch my drift. I'm not looking to spend £200 really, I just didn't want to set a definite budget below that until I knew more about the kind of camera it would buy. TLR's appeal to me because of their relatively light weight, and I like the idea of square format.

I'm now thinking more along the lines of a yashica A for a lot less cash, then I'll have some spare to get it sorted out if it shows any problems, and lots more free cash for the film and processing and maybe a light meter. That way if it turns out to not suit me I won't have lost a lot, but if I enjoy it enough to want to upgrade I still won't have spent that much extra.

Though the build quality of the yashica's won't be as good, they certainly seem to be capable of very nice results.

I'll just keep my eye on ClassicVintageCameras and ffordes, see if anything comes up (I've ruled out ebay, potentially more trouble than it's worth).
 
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Keep an eye on ffordes as they get a mix of stuff in, Yashica, Mamiyas, etc
 
I used to use the Mamiyas a lot.
First the C33, then C330 and it's successors.
Great flexibility, with interchangeable lenses, and good IQ too.
They come up on the bay quite often, and go for low prices too.
Might be worth a look?
 
Lots of good advice above. I had (until I recently sold it) a Yashica Mat LM with the Yashinon (Tessar type) lens and the quality of images was great. The quality of construction seemed good to me too - I had no problems with it at all and everything felt pretty solid.

I agree that one of these Yashica's is a great place to start in testing the water on a TLR. You can probably sell it on for what you paid and get a better one (with a better lens) if you decide that you enjoy working with TLRs and budget allows for an upgrade. TLRs are so different to other cameras (reversed and upside down viewfinder image is the most obvious difference, then add in different wind-on mechanisms, shutter release etc etc) that it's worth testing the water like this before committing further.

Personally, I decided that I didn't get on too well with the TLR approach. Having said that, I have since looked through some of my images taken with it and kind of miss it.....maybe I'll go back for a second try sometime!
 
So while I sit back and wait for something to come up, does anyone have any recommendations for 120 film? I was thinking of starting with Xp2 or Neopan 400CN as they seem to be generally liked and I can keep the processing costs down a bit (plus they seem to have a lot of latitude which will be helpful if I botch the exposures!).
 
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I use acros and hp5+ but only because I use them in 35mm and rather like them! FP4+ lacked a little with the roll I tried but I had processed it in Ilfosol 3.
 
squishy said:
So while I sit back and wait for something to come up, does anyone have any recommendations for 120 film? I was thinking of starting with Xp2 or Neopan 400CN as they seem to be generally liked and I can keep the processing costs down a bit (plus they seem to have a lot of latitude which will be helpful if I botch the exposures!).
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Something with good exposure latitude (like those mentioned) is a good start, especially if you're guessing exposure or don't have a great meter to hand.

Obviously grain is less of an issue with these big negatives, and the range of usable shutter speeds is probably smaller (with a 1/500 second fastest in most cases) so in a sense the decision about ISO is more about matching it to the conditions than it is with 35mm (where grain is more enlarged, and where cameras often have a 1/1000 or faster shutter). So if you're using it in bright sunlight, ISO400 can easily end up being too fast.

I'd go for a blend of 100 and 400 for general purposes. Acros is my favourite 100 B&W (in either 35mm or 120). For 400, something tolerant of exposure like Tri-X or HP5+ in traditional B&W, or one of the C41 versions as you suggest.
 
TheGreatSoprendo said:
TLRs are so different to other cameras (reversed and upside down viewfinder image is the most obvious difference
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Reversed, yes - upside down? I'm pretty sure they aren't :shrug:

A mix of ISO100 and 400 film in general, yes, tend to err more towards 400 because f/22 usually isn't too bad on most of these cameras.
 
The biggest problem I used to have was the parallax problem, but with the C330 that was solved with the bar that used to move down the screen the closer you focussed.
And no, the image isn't upside down, just reversed.
 
squishy said:
The yashica D and mat-124/G look quite appealing with well reputed lenses, with the 124 particularly catching my eye as it has a light meter which would save time (I'd have to constantly use my ipod app or consult tables without), and I've also seen a minolta autocord in my sort of price range, which seems to be well reputed but less popular going by the amount of information I can find.
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Yashica D.. very nice camera, love mine.. and I must get it off for a service.


Fuji Pro400H, metered with a cheap Weston Master II.

 
Now that is very tempting. That rokkor lens has an excellent reputation. Not sure if I have the money to spend right now, but thanks for the heads up!
 
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Its definitely tempting.....no must resist.

Andy
 
yeah, I'm gonna have to pass on that one. Shame as it seemed a very good deal.
 
C'mon! :D I would be so keen on it if I didn't have two TLRs already... could use a backup I guess... :bonk:
 
freecom2 said:
C'mon! :D I would be so keen on it if I didn't have two TLRs already... could use a backup I guess... :bonk:
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If you have only one of something that you want and then you lose it for whatever reason, you are stuffed and heartbroken. So you are panicking all the time in case you lose the one and only. If you have two you don’t panic all the time because you know you have a spare. But if one gets lost you have only one left, so you panic in case the other one gets lost. Since panicking is bad for you, having three is the best bet. Then if you lose one you have time to replace it without panicking.

So there, you should buy it to preserve your own sanity, as well as stopping me from buying something I don’t need, because it does look like rather a nice camera for the money. And if I did buy it, I would need another two TLRs.
 
Film & Conventional logic is always a winner :thumbs:

(but I'm not planning on actually buying it aha, I'm going to get my Yashica Mat fixed first)
 
freecom2 said:
(but I'm not planning on actually buying it aha, I'm going to get my Yashica Mat fixed first)
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Good man :thumbs:

I'm thinking about giving them a call tomorrow morning. Hadn't really considered a TLR, been looking for an MF SLR but at that price and looking at the results that can be achieved, I reckon it could be worth a punt, especially as I still have funds in my PayPal that are only gaining interest for them. :bonk:
 
I may end up reconsidering, looks like that's the best deal I'm ever likely to get. But I'll have to do it quickly! Sounds like it's going to be sold by the end of tomorrow one way or another :lol:
 
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Another question to ask while I've got a roaring thread going:
Fuji are selling 120 neopan 400CN expired 03/2012, what would it be best to rate that as? I would think metering for 1/3 stop slower sounds about right, but I have zero experience with expired film.
 
It's pretty close to expiry date so i dont think you will need to do anything, neg film is pretty resilient
 
Agree with Rob, I am presently using some Adox film some of which was OOD in May 2011 and as yet I'm making no metering adjustment. I suspect the emulsion is deteriorating but there is no noticable difference to results yet!
 
No compensation. That film will probably have a lot of latitude, and it has barely expired.
 
Thanks for the advice :)
 
This thread must be stopped......that Autocord is looking more interesting by the minute.

And breathe................OK I'm fine I shall wait until I've learnt to use the Yash before moving upwards.

Andy
 
Just called Teddington and they said that the Minolta is on hold for someone coming down from Liverpool at the weekend and should have been removed from their website. :(
 
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