Advice on flashguns

Will James

Will James

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Hi all,

I'm looking to move into portraiture photography more, and my setup at the moment consists of 500D, 18-55 IS kit lens and a 50 1.8. What I really want is a flashgun, but having read all of the reviews I'm still not sure which would be best for me.

I've primarily been looking at the 430 EX ii and 580 EX ii - I am slanted towards the 430 as I don't believe I need the extra power of the 580....

My friend's parents have kindly asked me to shoot some portraits at their wedding anniversary in a few weeks, in a hotel, which I believe isn't going to very well lit. ALthough I have the 50 1.8 if the room is crowded I would need to use a wider angle. So I'm thinking a 430 EX ii would do the job, and from what I've read the best thing to do is bounce the flash off of the ceiling or walls? I'm not sure what kind of effect this gives off so it would be good to see any of your shots if you have any?

Other uses will include nightclub portraits (something I want to get into aswell), and portraits of models for fill-in flash or dramatic effect.

Any help will be appreciated

Will.
 
As no-one else is pitching in, I'll offer a few cents or shillings.. Get a 430ex2, a diffuser (someone else can recommend which one) and an off-camera cord that allows eTTL. Then start practicing, ASAP :)

You would probably want to bounce most of the light off the ceiling, and some should go direct, to help with shadows and get a catchlight in their eyes. Preferably get the flash off the camera (with the cord and a bracket or something).

A pretty comprehensive treatise on EOS & flash at http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ but it's not a light read. The one section that you should DEFINITELY read & understand & experiment with is how P, Tv, Av and M modes work differently with flash. Direct link: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#flashmodes. Read it now and read it again when you think your camera and flash are possessed by demons. Yes, really.

That's the tech. The rest comes with practise practise practise.
 
Just get the best flash you can afford. Probably the 430EXii will be fine and is better value than the 580, which has master functions you won't be able to use yet, but you need as much power as you can get for bouncing and high speed sync (for fill-in outdoors).

Photonotes is good, but hard going as said above (his book is better) but a really good book for Canon users is Syl Arena's Speedliter's Handbook (£18 Amazon). Easy to understand technical stuff and lots of excellent practical advice for just the things you want to do, and more.

Then just get stuck in :thumbs:
 
I use a Metz 45-cl4 digi and would use nothing else, don't overlook the better hammer heads
 
vaizki said:
As no-one else is pitching in, I'll offer a few cents or shillings.. Get a 430ex2, a diffuser (someone else can recommend which one) and an off-camera cord that allows eTTL. Then start practicing, ASAP :)

You would probably want to bounce most of the light off the ceiling, and some should go direct, to help with shadows and get a catchlight in their eyes. Preferably get the flash off the camera (with the cord and a bracket or something).

A pretty comprehensive treatise on EOS & flash at http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ but it's not a light read. The one section that you should DEFINITELY read & understand & experiment with is how P, Tv, Av and M modes work differently with flash. Direct link: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#flashmodes. Read it now and read it again when you think your camera and flash are possessed by demons. Yes, really.

That's the tech. The rest comes with practise practise practise.
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Hi Jukka, thanks very much for your advice. You're right it's not a light read but one day soon I'll sit down and give it a go, it looks very good. When you say bounce most off of the ceiling and some direct, how would this be done? Do you mean that I would point the flash at the ceiling but say at a 45 degree angle so that some light is diffused onto the faces but some is on the ceiling?

HoppyUK said:
Just get the best flash you can afford. Probably the 430EXii will be fine and is better value than the 580, which has master functions you won't be able to use yet, but you need as much power as you can get for bouncing and high speed sync (for fill-in outdoors).

Photonotes is good, but hard going as said above (his book is better) but a really good book for Canon users is Syl Arena's Speedliter's Handbook (£18 Amazon). Easy to understand technical stuff and lots of excellent practical advice for just the things you want to do, and more.

Then just get stuck in :thumbs:
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Hi Richard, thanks for the advice, I'll take a look at them!

JSER said:
I use a Metz 45-cl4 digi and would use nothing else, don't overlook the better hammer heads
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Hi Jeremy, that looks good I'll do some research, thanks.
 
I have the Canon 580exII and the Nissin di866. Although the Canon is slightly better for what I use it for (weathersealing and slightly higher sync with a pro body) and gets more use, the Nissin is just about as good, if not slightly more powerful. For the price of the 430 you are into Nissin di866 territory and in my opinion its a much better flash in every single respect. If you have the cash for a 580exII then buying two Nissin di866 units would be even better still.
 
AndyB1976 said:
I had a read at this site and opted for the 580s additional features.

http://photo-tips-online.com/review/canon-430ex-ii-vs-canon-580ex-ii/
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Hi Andy, thanks for that link it's a good read. Definitely helps with trying to decide.

Chris Primadona said:
I have the Canon 580exII and the Nissin di866. Although the Canon is slightly better for what I use it for (weathersealing and slightly higher sync with a pro body) and gets more use, the Nissin is just about as good, if not slightly more powerful. For the price of the 430 you are into Nissin di866 territory and in my opinion its a much better flash in every single respect. If you have the cash for a 580exII then buying two Nissin di866 units would be even better still.
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Hi Chris, very helpful advice thank you. The Nissin di866 does seem much better than the 430exII, I've never heard of the brand though. Are they quite well known, provide reliable electronics, etc?

Which diffuser would you recommend to go with it? I think I'm leaning towards the Nissin di866, sems really good value for money considering it's a high quality flash.

Will.
 
The Nissin are not as "user friendly" as Metz etc, do they have the LCD on the back most flashguns have today the 600 doesn't.

Als remember buy a dedicated flash made by Nikon or Canon etc and that is the ONLY camera you can use it on, my Metz will fit ANY camera.
 
vaizki said:
"an off-camera cord that allows eTTL. Then start practicing, ASAP :)"

"Preferably get the flash off the camera (with the cord and a bracket or something). "
Click to expand...

I couldn't stress this more!
 
Will James said:
Hi Andy, thanks for that link it's a good read. Definitely helps with trying to decide.



Hi Chris, very helpful advice thank you. The Nissin di866 does seem much better than the 430exII, I've never heard of the brand though. Are they quite well known, provide reliable electronics, etc?

Which diffuser would you recommend to go with it? I think I'm leaning towards the Nissin di866, sems really good value for money considering it's a high quality flash.

Will.
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Hey Will, the Nissin di866 is very highly regarded, excellent idiot proof speedlight. Nissin have been making speedlights since 1967 so they know what they are doing. The only thing it lacks over the 580exII is weathersealing and sync speed on a pro body like the 1d. Other than that I actually has more features.
 
Just to throw a cheaper option in....I use a Nissin di622 Mark 2, and it's a great flash for the price (£120) it's powerful, simple to use, can be used as a slave, has manual power settings, has wireless options built in...to be honest, for the use you mention this flash would more than meet your needs.
 
I looked at this, but I am sorry to say dismissed it.

GOOD flash but as compared with the Metz PZ42X (£99 inc delivery from mifsuds) , 44 AF-1 and 45 CL-4 digital which I have all of and often use all together for wildlife off one camera, the di622 has a rather slow recycle time of 5 secs+ as compared to the 3.5 of the Metz, enough to matter in wildlife, also and more importantly these days people like an LCD screen the Nissin does not have one, when you have the LCD screen it is amazing how often you check it when setting the guns up.

Good flash, GN of 44 but a little outdated (my view only).

By the way, the 44 - AF1, at £139 is a good flash BUT..... Again I miss the PZ42X's LCD on the back. Once you have it, yu wish it were on all the guns.

I do find that like most things, faster recycle times are with Alcaline, though I use NiMh, as I refuse to ruin the planet with disposable batteries, as should everyone.
 
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JSER said:
The Nissin are not as "user friendly" as Metz etc, do they have the LCD on the back most flashguns have today the 600 doesn't.

Als remember buy a dedicated flash made by Nikon or Canon etc and that is the ONLY camera you can use it on, my Metz will fit ANY camera.
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Lightstalker said:
I couldn't stress this more!
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Chris Primadona said:
Hey Will, the Nissin di866 is very highly regarded, excellent idiot proof speedlight. Nissin have been making speedlights since 1967 so they know what they are doing. The only thing it lacks over the 580exII is weathersealing and sync speed on a pro body like the 1d. Other than that I actually has more features.
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JSER said:
Good advice, I shoot wildlife in the back garden, a GOOD off camera cord is a boon
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mc_mclovin said:
Just to throw a cheaper option in....I use a Nissin di622 Mark 2, and it's a great flash for the price (£120) it's powerful, simple to use, can be used as a slave, has manual power settings, has wireless options built in...to be honest, for the use you mention this flash would more than meet your needs.
Click to expand...

JSER said:
I looked at this, but I am sorry to say dismissed it.

GOOD flash but as compared with the Metz PZ42X (£99 inc delivery from mifsuds) , 44 AF-1 and 45 CL-4 digital which I have all of and often use all together for wildlife off one camera, the di622 has a rather slow recycle time of 5 secs+ as compared to the 3.5 of the Metz, enough to matter in wildlife, also and more importantly these days people like an LCD screen the Nissin does not have one, when you have the LCD screen it is amazing how often you check it when setting the guns up.

Good flash, GN of 44 but a little outdated (my view only).

By the way, the 44 - AF1, at £139 is a good flash BUT..... Again I miss the PZ42X's LCD on the back. Once you have it, yu wish it were on all the guns.

I do find that like most things, faster recycle times are with Alcaline, though I use NiMh, as I refuse to ruin the planet with disposable batteries, as should everyone.
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Thanks everyone for the great advice, looks like I'll be doing some more research over the next few days! I'll post again once I've had a look at these other options...

With regards to the diffuser, is there a particular type that people can recommend? Also, if the hotel has high ceilings and therefore I don't have the option for bouncing light off of them, will it be OK to use direct on-camera flash with a diffuser or would this not provide a soft enough light to look flattering?
 
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JUST REMEMBER .......

In the end the decision is and has to be yours, despite what people may sy, we are ALL bias in soma way towards what we have, either because we know it to be better through use and experience or because we bought it and that is it.

Take the advice on board and make YOUR choice.

Remember there are 100% unbias sites such as

http://www.dpreview.com/

This in my opinion is a site worth it's weight in filters.
 
Will James said:
Thanks everyone for the great advice, looks like I'll be doing some more research over the next few days! I'll post again once I've had a look at these other options...

With regards to the diffuser, is there a particular type that people can recommend? Also, if the hotel has high ceilings and therefore I don't have the option for bouncing light off of them, will it be OK to use direct on-camera flash with a diffuser or would this not provide a soft enough light to look flattering?
Click to expand...

I've tried a few and the best by miles is the Lumiquest Quik Bounce - very versatile and fast to adjust, does bounce-fill (variable with flash head zoom) or direct fill-in outside, doesn't waste light, horizontal or vertical, folds away flat :thumbs: £40 http://www.lumiquest.com/products/quik-bounce.htm

The softness of the shadows depends entirely on the size of light source, relative to the subject. Which is why bouncing works - the light becomes the size of the ceiling. You can improve on direct flash with things like the LQ Quik Bounce, but anything much bigger quickly gets impractical.
 
HoppyUK said:
I've tried a few and the best by miles is the Lumiquest Quik Bounce - very versatile and fast to adjust, does bounce-fill (variable with flash head zoom) or direct fill-in outside, doesn't waste light, horizontal or vertical, folds away flat :thumbs: £40 http://www.lumiquest.com/products/quik-bounce.htm

The softness of the shadows depends entirely on the size of light source, relative to the subject. Which is why bouncing works - the light becomes the size of the ceiling. You can improve on direct flash with things like the LQ Quik Bounce, but anything much bigger quickly gets impractical.
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Just make sure your ceiling is "white" even dull three year old off white can make a difference to the final result, I use lumiquest and yes they are VERY good I agree but I prefer

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-lumiquest-pocket-bounce/p1007295

£12 NEW on Ebay

Get the gold/silver attachments also for skin tone if portrait, I don't do portrait but for outdoor nature gives a good sunny tone
 
JSER said:
Just make sure your ceiling is "white" even dull three year old off white can make a difference to the final result, I use lumiquest and yes they are VERY good I agree but I prefer

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-lumiquest-pocket-bounce/p1007295

£12 NEW on Ebay

Get the gold/silver attachments also for skin tone if portrait, I don't do portrait but for outdoor nature gives a good sunny tone
Click to expand...

Pocket Bouncer is the original Lumiquest product and has been going for decades. It's cheap, and does what it does very well (as do the even cheaper clones on Amazon) but it's very limited, mainly because it has no ceiling bounce facility.

The Quik Bounce does, and because of the way it works you can vary the bounce-fill ratio by zooming the flash head. Zooming to 105mm on my 580EX puts an extra stop out of the top, and corresponding about a stop less out of the front - that's a very handy option for higher ceilings.

Then, because it mounts with the flash head rotated, it also works for vertical framing. Close the flaps, and it's identical to the Pocket Bouncer. It may be expensive for what it is, though it's cheaper than some and a bargain for what it does.

I have loads of these things - Pocket Bouncer, UltaSoft, Fong, Stofen, bounce cards etc - but I haven't used any of them since getting the Quik Bounce. Many of those are as good in some situations, but none so versatile or fast to use. If it was only for outdoors shooting, I would probably get something bigger, like one of LQ's mini-softboxes but they don't do bounce-fill, which is the key trick indoors, and you have to strike a balance between practicality and looking increasingly ridiculous ;)

BTW, lots of good info on the Lumiquest site, vids and tutorials about how light works with flash. Brief, factual, and largely free of the usual marketing bulcrap.
 
Agree with the above, remember we are all different with different needs, I use the pocket bounce with everything frfom my Metz 45 CL-4 Digital to my smaller on camera metz guns outdoor for wildlife, I "need" nothing more.

Most (99%) ow what I use is home made, flash extenders, snoots etc, not because of the cost but because for the photography I do I can tailor what I need myself, for example a kirk flash extender is £40, better made for what I need £5.

By the way it is simple to make a Lumiquest equal, better suited to ones own requirements for £10 inc. bounce off ceilings.

I got over the "I need to do this so what can I buy" ages ago, now it is "I need to do this, What can I make", and the pleaseure and learning experience, is priceless.

When it works the way you want, and it has been made, you un knowingly have "learnt" a great deal about that part of photography.

E.G. Yesterday I wanted to place one of my kits near a pond, bird photos, do I buy a camouflage cover (waterproof not needed), can I get one that fits a hammerhead Metz with 400mm lens and redio trigger etc, etx, yes, but two needed, total £69. Instead I bought two £1.99 camo. bandanas on ebay even getting 50p off. £64 saved.
 
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HoppyUK said:
I've tried a few and the best by miles is the Lumiquest Quik Bounce - very versatile and fast to adjust, does bounce-fill (variable with flash head zoom) or direct fill-in outside, doesn't waste light, horizontal or vertical, folds away flat :thumbs: £40 http://www.lumiquest.com/products/quik-bounce.htm

The softness of the shadows depends entirely on the size of light source, relative to the subject. Which is why bouncing works - the light becomes the size of the ceiling. You can improve on direct flash with things like the LQ Quik Bounce, but anything much bigger quickly gets impractical.
Click to expand...

Richard - this looks perfect for how I intend to be using my flash most of the time. Do you have a photo or two where you used the Quik Bounce you could post on here? Would be great to see what kind of results I could get.

Do you think it's versatile enough to use for outdoor fill-in flash? If not, I guess the best thing for that would be the mini softbox?

Oo sorry almost forgot - does it attach to any flash head or just Canon's? Sorry for all of the newbie questions but I'm learning a lot here already! Thanks very much for the help.

In terms of my use I think it'll be 60-70% indoors and 40-30% outdoors....the Quik Bounce looks like the ideal solution.....
 
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Will James said:
Richard - this looks perfect for how I intend to be using my flash most of the time. Do you have a photo or two where you used the Quik Bounce you could post on here? Would be great to see what kind of results I could get.

Do you think it's versatile enough to use for outdoor fill-in flash? If not, I guess the best thing for that would be the mini softbox?

Oo sorry almost forgot - does it attach to any flash head or just Canon's? Sorry for all of the newbie questions but I'm learning a lot here already! Thanks very much for the help.

In terms of my use I think it'll be 60-70% indoors and 40-30% outdoors....the Quik Bounce looks like the ideal solution.....
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I've got loads of pictures Will, but TBH I don't like posting photos of other people at their own private gatherings. There's no secret to it - it's mainly just bounce-fill like you get with a biggish bounce card. The advanatge of the Quik Bounce is that it's much faster and easier to use than DIY solutions.

Like all these things, the result you get is 75% dependent on the nature of the bounce surface you're using, ie ceiling height, colour etc. Ultimately that is the main light source, (and that's the bit you rarely see mentioned in marketing blurb). The direct fill-in component is to lift the shadows under eyes and chins that the bounced element misses.

It is effectively two light souces in one, the bounce and the direct fill-in, and there's a third if you also use the exposure controls to balance with the ambient light. The ambient balance comes automatically if you shoot on Av, then you can use the independent +/- compensation controls on the camera and the gun to moderate the flash/ambinet ratio, as well as zooming the flash head to adjust the bounce-fill ratio. To take it one step further, gel the flash with a CTO to match the colour of the ambient light and you have a huge amount of control.

But you don't need to worry about any of that yet. Just set the flash zoom head to 50mm, open the flaps and shoot. In a normal room, you will get a very good result. Outdoors, just close the flaps (and switch on high speed sync if it's bright) :thumbs:

Couple more tips. Bearing in mind that the larger the light source the softer the shadows, and the Quik Bounce gets smaller relative to the subject with distance, which you'll notice if you're shooting groups outside as the softening effect is reduced. You need a massive brolly to do that properly. I've got one of those on a bracket too, and the light is fantastic, but it's the most unwieldly thing imaginable and you look like a total goon. With the Quik Bounce, you can maximise the softening by zooming the flash head back to 24mm outdoors. It just ensures it is filled right to the edges and makes a (very!) small amount of difference. You can do it indoors too, but that reduces the amount of light that goes out of the top for bouncing.

Final thing, outside in bright sun, switch on high speed sync as mentioned above - it will automatically turn itself on and off when the shutter speed demands, but you might well need it. This is a brilliant feature of all Canon guns, but a lot of the cheaper third party jobbies don't have it. Only caveat with HSS, it uses a lot of power so if you get under exposure with large groups, that's probably because the gun has run out of puff. Move closer, adjust settings to find another way.

Sorry, too much info :D Just buy it, stick it on and shoot. It comes with self adhesive Velcro tabs to fit any gun or they sell detachable quick-release straps if you pefer.
 
That's definitely not too much info., it's just what I need to be honest, so thanks very much for taking the time to give me the advice :thumbs:, really appreciate it.
 
Right, I've had a look at lots of reviews and I think I've got it down to two different flashes in particular.

I've looked at the Metz 50-AF1, Nissin Di866 Mark II and Canon 430EX II - as these are within my budget as I'm not prepared to shell out £300 for a 580EX II or the Metz 45-CL4 just yet.

Unfortunately I have disregarded the 50-AF1 due to the fact it cannot be used as a master flash (even though my knowledge on this type of use in limited), it comes with no accessories (case, stand) and the fact it is classed as a mid-range whereas the Di866 Mark II is classed between mid-range and pro.

Really I'm trying to decide between the Nissin Di866 Mark II and Canon 430EX II. I believe the Nissin has more functionality (extra power, can be used as a master), is designed more towards pro use (better for when I improve my skills in the long-term), but it has a recycle time of around 5 seconds (vs. 3 seconds) (although can be shortened with a battery pack). It also doesn't have the sensor size zoom function.

What I want to know is whether you think the 5 seconds as opposed to 3 seconds on the Canon will limit me that much? Is it that much slower in reality? In particular when photographing at nightclubs, parties, etc?

My second question is whether I will need the extra power of the Nissin, as I have never used a flashgun before so I'm not sure how powerful the 430EX II is. I would like the flash I purchase to be able to light a group of people (i.e. 5) so that I can tog bigger groups in clubs, or fill-in flash outdoors for small groups.

My third question is regarding using the flash off-camera. If I used a bracket and a cord for my flash, would that mean it acts as a 'master' and therefore the 430ex II wouldn't be compatible in this form? From reading all the reviews my head is spinning in terms of this area of the topic. According to the reviews, the Nissin has two type of remote slave capabilities, whereas the 430EX II has none. Does this not apply to me considering I have a 500D and therefore no ability to control the flash remotely?

My final question is whether I can still use E-TTL mode when using the Di866 II off-camera (cord or remote) i.e. will the flash power adjust automatically like it would if it was mounted on the hotshoe? I believe that if I want to use manual mode on the Di866 II, I won't be able to do this through the camera body's menu and will have to set the settings with the flash itself (a nuisance when on a stand at least a few metres away?).

The reason I've kept the 430EX II in the picture is because of the claimed better build quality and the fact I can control the flash settings remotely using my camera body's menu (to my understanding). And, it has so many positive reviews.

Once I have a better picture of the questions above then I'll be ready to order and start practising this week!

Thanks very much for all of your help, I very much appreciate it. (Sorry for all of the questions)
 
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You need power for bouncing and HSS - tons more than when used direct.

Re-cycle times are not comparable because the big Nissin has almost twice the power of the 430EX, ie if you turn it down to say 70%-ish, it will probably be close to the Canon. Not so far off anyway.

You don't need a master facility because you can't use it without having a second off-camera gun, but yes, you can put any of these guns on a cord and they function as if on-camera.
 
Chris Primadona said:
I'm pretty sure the Canon 430EX II can't be used as a master either
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Hi Chris, yes you're right I meant to put that in my comparison.

HoppyUK said:
You need power for bouncing and HSS - tons more than when used direct.

Re-cycle times are not comparable because the big Nissin has almost twice the power of the 430EX, ie if you turn it down to say 70%-ish, it will probably be close to the Canon. Not so far off anyway.

You don't need a master facility because you can't use it without having a second off-camera gun, but yes, you can put any of these guns on a cord and they function as if on-camera.
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Hi Richard, yes I guess the more power the better, which is a big advantage of the Nissin di866 flashguns.

That's a good point you made about comparison of recycle times, makes me feel :bang: for not realising that!

Yes true about the master facility, but in the long-term hopefully I'll be buying a second once I've learnt how to use flashes properly and have gained some experience.
 
I appreciate that this will be a matter of personal choice, but, one thing to remember, most professional photographers chose Metz, Canon and Nikon flash for a reason, and it isn't because they are rich.

If a pro could rely on Nissin, Jessops, Samsun, Sigma etc, then they would, especially financially, they, like me chose Metz for reliability, same for Canon and Nikon.

I am not a Pro, but I want to know that whatever and whenever I want my guns, they are there, 100% working, and at GNs of 45 and 48 for Metz I doubt that except under lab conditions you will notice any difference from a 50+ Nissin. Which are VERY good guns and rate highly in the amcam market.

Offer an advanced amateur or pro a choice, side by side, on a table, pick one, Nissin or Metz, I know what the answer will be most of the time, I bet you have never seen a photographer that relies on his flash, on tv shooting a wedding, event or other story with a Nissin.

Also I would place any Nissin against my £500 Metz even my Metz 48 AF-1 on recycle times. I shoot at 5fps with my 45 CL-4 digi when shooting wildlife.

Finally as I have said before, we have four guns, one Nikon (Metz) three Canon (Metz), and all four have ben used together / at the same time wirelessly either on the Nikon or Canon.

Img_4689a.jpg


Though like everything it is a personal choice and as I have stated on many occasions Nissin are VERY good guns.
 
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add my 2p to this thread
I currently have a Nissin mk1 866 and a Canon 430ex2 - I did have a 580ex2 but some lucky devil got lucky when the zipper on my backpack came loose and dropped out resulting in me never seeing it again !!! Ouch
regardless of that I now own and use the top two.. the Nissin is very very easy to use and even a slow coach like me picked it up in a matter of minutes and the color LCD on the Nissin is a joy to use far better to view than the Canon LCD

the thing I dont like about the Nissin is the support if you have a problem emailng the asian factory and waiting days for a reply to even the simplest of questions
the Power output of it though amazed me - more power than the 580ex2 even though the guide numbers are pretty much the same the Nissin definatly fires out more light than my top end Canon did

adding to this mix I use the new pocket wizard mini flex combo and with the Nissin I always seem to have niggling problems with not firing etc and that really does bug me

the 430ex2 is an absolute joy to use on everytning i use it on - it just works 1st time every time - even with the wizards, my Nissin does not which I find very frustrating indeed
it suddenly decides to work and it works well.. but its the in between non firing that I find the most annoying
on Camera and with a cord it works like a champ
but 9 times out of 10 I take my 430ex2 as I have 100% confidence that it works ALL the time and the trigger firing range with the wizards is much further than any other flash I have used
regards
Chris
 
Looking for a flash myself and by what you have said the 430ex2 looks to be the most reliable one.
 
I have read it but as i am new to all this dont you think i would be wise to stick with Canon? At least then i will know it will work with my camera. Wouldn't know where to start with Metz etc.
 
cam1986 said:
I have read it but as i am new to all this dont you think i would be wise to stick with Canon? At least then i will know it will work with my camera. Wouldn't know where to start with Metz etc.
Click to expand...

If you bought a Panasonic TV would you "have to buy a Panasonic DVD!"

If you had British Telecom telephone line would you have to have a BT phone.

NO, Pros use Canon, Metz and Nikon they dont own a Metz camera because there isn't one, or Sunpak.

Ask any PRO what they think of Metz, Sunpak have been around for 40 years, the brakes on your car aren't made by the manufacturer of the car.

How would you know where to start with Canon! rather than Metz or Sunpak or Nissin its a flash. Put it on the camera, press the shutter release.

Just get one with automatic zoom, most are pref. to 105, some stop at 75-80.

The canon is a superb gun, = to Metz, just a lot more for the same thing.
 
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This is what I use for nature, metz on camera and lead to separate pod. ALL on manual NO ttl itt est or pst

Dsc_1272.jpg


The NIKON (and this will surprise you, the NIKON) Sunpak flash is also used with the Canon as a 3rd fill in set on Wireless.
 
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cam1986 said:
Which Metz would you recommend then?
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Hi Anthony,

After reading loads of reviews and all of the posts on this thread (very helpful, thanks everyone), I'm now torn between the 430EX II and the Metz 50 AF-1.

As Jeremy said, the Metz has just as much functionality and compatibility as the Canon - you'll find this out when you read through reviews. You'll also find that a lot of Pro toggers use Metz as they are ultra-reliable like Canon, and I believe you can control the settings of the flash through the Canon menu system on your camera, whereas the Nissin doesn't have this functionality.

As you know, I'm just starting out with this stuff too so it's very hard to decide which one to go for. The thing I don't like about the Metz is that it doesn't come with any accessories, not even a little stand or a soft case. Might not sound like a 'biggy' but it's just annoying and means you have to buy other stuff.

For the Canon, I'm not sure if it's powerful enough for my needs. Because I haven't used a flashgun before, I can't relate to the guide numbers of each flash other than relative to the other flashes on the market. The Metz 50 AF-1 is more powerful than the 430EX II, with a guide number of 50m (hence the 50 AF-1). For all I know the 430EX II may be powerful enough to bounce off of ceilings at weddings/anniversaries/events, and powerful enough to light a small group of people in a nightclub. Until I experience one or someone can show me photos to prove its capability I cannot commit to buying one. Might go into a high street retailer this weekend and try out the Canon.
 
Will James said:
Hi Anthony,

After reading loads of reviews and all of the posts on this thread (very helpful, thanks everyone), I'm now torn between the 430EX II and the Metz 50 AF-1.

As Jeremy said, the Metz has just as much functionality and compatibility as the Canon - you'll find this out when you read through reviews. You'll also find that a lot of Pro toggers use Metz as they are ultra-reliable like Canon, and I believe you can control the settings of the flash through the Canon menu system on your camera, whereas the Nissin doesn't have this functionality.

As you know, I'm just starting out with this stuff too so it's very hard to decide which one to go for. The thing I don't like about the Metz is that it doesn't come with any accessories, not even a little stand or a soft case. Might not sound like a 'biggy' but it's just annoying and means you have to buy other stuff.

For the Canon, I'm not sure if it's powerful enough for my needs. Because I haven't used a flashgun before, I can't relate to the guide numbers of each flash other than relative to the other flashes on the market. The Metz 50 AF-1 is more powerful than the 430EX II, with a guide number of 50m (hence the 50 AF-1). For all I know the 430EX II may be powerful enough to bounce off of ceilings at weddings/anniversaries/events, and powerful enough to light a small group of people in a nightclub. Until I experience one or someone can show me photos to prove its capability I cannot commit to buying one. Might go into a high street retailer this weekend and try out the Canon.
Click to expand...

Metz make good guns, always have. But so do Canon.

Difference in power is minimal, roughly a third of a stop. Other differences are that the 430EXii doesn't have a pull-out hilight panel, and the head only rotates 180 degrees in one direction, potentially a bit more limiting for bouncing behind.

Against that, the Canon is 100% future-proofed with new cameras, whereas Metz might need a fimware upgrade. I believe it has a download port for this.
 
Oh the metz also has a dedicated slave function for Canon/Nikon too

And remember absolute power is meaninless unless used.

This was taken last night at MIDNIGHT pitch black 40' away with my Metz 45 AF-1 and 60D AUTOFCUSED and this is cropped to 1/4 the frame and I have shot the same pics 80' it the dark and could easily go further, power! 45.

Img_4878.jpg


How much power do you need, the GN45 Metz is a PRO gun 45-CL4 digital I use, you want 50/60/70 dont get carried away with GNs or a free 99p bag

camera.jpg


how about this, its battery powered.

http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/product/calumet_genesis_300b_flash_head/cf0507

I am NOT being rude but people place far too much importance on having 30MP and studio lighting attached to their cameras.
 
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