Advice on domestic CCTV installation please

paulcamcas

paulcamcas

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We'd like to pop some CCTV up at the front and back of our house to keep an eye on the activities of a problem neighbour. Watching our land not theirs of course. I'd like a camera at the front and one at the back of the house sending images to my mac to be recorded with the possibility of viewing real-time and recordings on a web browser from work or wherever. If that makes any sense.

I've started to look into it, googled like mad and searched this forum but the options seem endless and I can't tell what's good and what's not, so...

1. Would I be better off paying a professional installer to sort it and how do I pick one?

2. If DIY is best (I hope so), which kit should I buy?

Any tips or pointers welcome. Many thanks for any advice.
 
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I would DIY.
Start with something like this http://www.maplin.co.uk/4-channel-h.264-network-cctv-dvr-with-smart-phone-access-389123 then add the cameras.

The police told me "CCTV must not be used to record conversations between members of the public as this is highly intrusive and unlikely to be justified. I should choose a system without this facility if possible. If your system comes equipped with a sound recording facility then I should turn this off or disable".
 
k4stn said:
The police told me "CCTV must not be used to record conversations between members of the public as this is highly intrusive and unlikely to be justified. I should choose a system without this facility if possible. If your system comes equipped with a sound recording facility then I should turn this off or disable".
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It's no different to recording images of them. If people want to talk loud enough to be heard on your property, there is no reason not to record it.

Why switch it off it can record something which might be of use?

And DIY. It's not rocket surgery.


Steve.
 
paulcamcas said:
1. Would I be better off paying a professional installer to sort it and how do I pick one?

Any tips or pointers welcome. Many thanks for any advice.
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Yes, a professional installer will have access to a better range of kit, the necessary installation materials and design knowledge and importantly gives you somewhere to go back to in the unlikely event of you having problems with the installation.
Choose from someone registered with www.ssaib.org or www.nsi.org.uk

Then will come the question of infrared or non-infrared for night vision - most infrared illumination will 'white-out' any people if it's too close to them -there is now an 'intelligent' infrared that will illuminate but not 'white-out'.
Cameras seeing in the dark without infrared rely on a slower shutter speed and whilst the image looks really impressive when there's nothing moving, get someone moving in the scene and it all goes to pot ... like a slug through vaseline!

Of course if you aren't using a good DVR to record the images it's pretty pointless anyway unless you sit in front of the monitor all day and that would have limited evidential value.
 
Steve Smith said:
It's no different to recording images of them. If people want to talk loud enough to be heard on your property, there is no reason not to record it.

Why switch it off it can record something which might be of use?

And DIY. It's not rocket surgery.


Steve.
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Sorry Steve but you are wrong.

http://www.ico.org.uk/~/media/docum...led_specialist_guides/ICO_CCTVFINAL_2301.ashx


"There are limited circumstances in which audio recording may be justified, subject to sufficient
safeguards. These could include:
Audio based alert systems (such as those triggered by changes in noise patterns such as
sudden shouting). Conversations must not be recorded, and operators should not listen in.
Two-way audio feeds from ‘help points’ covered by CCTV cameras, where these are
activated by the person requiring assistance.
Conversations between staff and particular individuals where a reliable record is needed of
what was said, such as in the charging area of a police custody suite6
.
Where recording is triggered due to a specific threat, e.g. a ‘panic button’ in a taxi cab.
In the limited circumstances where audio recording is justified, signs must make it very clear that
audio recording is being or may be carried out."
 
That's a code of practice. I would like to see evidence of actual law banning it.

And the OP is talking about recording on his own property, not a business. If I had the option to record sound, I would do it. You can always take it off later.


Steve.
 
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DPA doesn't apply to domestic situations.

The Information Commissioner recognises that there is increasing public concern about domestic use of CCTV systems, such as use by neighbours. As CCTV and surveillance equipment becomes more affordable and readily available, the Commissioner receives more calls relating to its use by private individuals. But in practical terms domestic use of CCTV is largely exempt from the requirements of the DPA and this is made clear in the Information Commissioner’s CCTV code of practice. This means that where CCTV is put on a residential property by an individual for limited purposes, such as protecting their property from burglary, then it is exempt from the data protection principles and householders do not have to register with the Information Commissioner’s Office.
Although the DPA provisions are unlikely to apply to individuals who install CCTV on their properties for their own purposes, other legislation may do so. For example, planning law can be relevant to the siting of cameras and criminal law may apply depending on how the collected images are used. If the CCTV images are used for voyeuristic purposes, harassment, anti social behaviour or other matters dealt with under the criminal law, then these are matters for the police to investigate.
It would appear to be a big jump from regulating the use of CCTV by police and local authorities to regulating the use of such systems by individuals. Initially, it may be better to focus on extending the legislation to central government departments and agencies, especially the Highways Agency and the DVLA; public transport providers such as Transport for London; and private organisations surveillance of public spaces, rather than individuals’ use of CCTV cameras.
Click to expand...

http://www.ico.org.uk/~/media/docum...on_surveillance_cameras_code_of_practice.ashx
 
And anyway, regardless of any law, even if it did apply, I would still record what I wanted on my own property.


Steve.
 
Thank you all for the info so far.

I'm going to have a bash at DIY. Pleased to hear Maplins recommended - there's one in town and their prices seem okay.
 
I self installed my 4 camera CCTV system. It is easy enough if you have a drill, basic tools and a bit of DIY know how. I also manage our CCTV systems and installations at work across 60 offices around the uk.

The best way to record footage at home is still via a dedicated DVR and analogue cameras - many people will insist you get IP cameras but these are expensive, you need some way of recording like a NAS or pc left on all the time and for domestic install are abit OTT IMHO.

If you make sure you buy a realtime DVR - in other words it can record at 25fps per camera or on a 4ch DVR can record at 100fps (the cheaper ones may say they record at 25fps but that is across all cameras - so a 25fps dvr will only be capable of recording at approx 6fps per camera) and that it has pentaplex operation - it can record, playback, be accessed over the network/internet and backup all at the same time (the cheaper ones stop recording if you try and play back for example) you won't go far wrong.

You mention Mac - I have a 4ch DVR and it uses an ActiveX control which means it is only viewable on a computer via Internet Explorer and the viewing/config software only runs on windows - so I have windows 7 installed via boot camp.

My DVR does have an iOS and android app so can be viewed on smartphones and tablets - I only venture into the windows software if I need to backup some potentially interesting footage.

To view from the outside world over the Internet you need to setup your router to port forward - fairly easy and well documented in the web.

As for cameras - make sure the camera is at least 600TVL (TV lines - the number of lines the picture is made up of) the higher the number the better but a standard TV is 576 so under that and the picture will potentially be less detailed. Also try and buy cameras with a decent CMOS/CCD sensor.

The camera should be mounted as high as possible to avoid tampering but think about over looking issues with neighbours - as already mentioned, the domestic CCTV install is exempt from the data protection act but your neighbours still have a right to privacy - I showed my neighbour the live view the camera was covering to put them at ease that it wasn't looking in their bedroom window.

You also might want to think about improving the lighting at night with security lights too - the better the light levels the less chance of the camera infra red washing out details on faces for example.

Finally, I ran my camera wiring over cat5 cable and used things called baluns to convert at each end to the traditional CCTV connections - that way you only have to run one cable as the power and signal are sent through the cat5. The traditional coax cable for CCTV will need power to each camera too.

It is a fun project and can also be used for thngs like proving to the courier company that the driver didn't leave a card because he never even came to the front door or watching what your cat gets up to in the garden whilst sitting at work on your iPad, or capturing on camera when I chopped the end of my finger in the lawnmower :lol:
 
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That maplin one above only does ...

Recording Frame Rate PAL:100fps@CIF 25fps@D1, 50fps@HD1
Playback Resolution PAL:CIF(352x288),HD1(704x288), D1(704x576)

Not much good recording at 352x288 resolution as it will be poor quality - as soon as you bump up to D1 (or 4CIF) resolution it drops to 25fps across 4ch which is approx 6fps per channel. I would avoid that one.

The problem with recording at such poor frame rates is that anything moving across the camera frame such as a car or person will only appear in one or two frames and they'll be out of view. At 25fps you stand a much better chance of identifying someone or getting a registration number as you'll have more data to play with and they'll be onscreen for longer.
 
Alan, that is some superb information, thank you very much. I was thinking of spending about £300 on a DIY set up. Is that realistic?
 
This DVR seems to tick all the boxes if you choose the 500gb drive option http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AVTECH-KP...867686104?pt=UK_CCTV&var=&hash=item27c881fad8

So far you're under budget and only need to buy the cables and power supply for the cameras...

This is another trusted eBay seller I use regularly...


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-5A...-/320705278105?pt=UK_CCTV&hash=item4aab863099

How far away from the DVR are you ntendng to mount the cameras? Because they do pre-made wiring quite cheaply too..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30M-BNC-V...-/320749813629?pt=UK_CCTV&hash=item4aae2dbf7d
 
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to throw a spanner in the works the latest cctv is now full hd known as hd sdi
the biggest problem i find with cctv is the resolution especially if you are planning on monitoring a large area standard definition cameras can get pretty vague
the key is to only monitor the essential area of importance to keep the detail

bl0at3r's link to the camera on ebay are not a bad choice i have a similar model badged qvis but has zoom capability and 36 infrared led's they work down to reasonably low light but the infrared led's tend to give it tunnel vision to a degree i find a little ambient light from a wall light works well at night
ip cameras are basically on there way out as far as cctv goes being superseded by the above mentioned hd sdi cameras which are as easy to install as standard analogue cctv cameras rather than messing with ip addresses and ports
the biggest problem with all cctv cameras is they really don't see well at night if you can set up a night light with motion detection it will do a far better job than the infrared leds on most cameras

the cheap maplin dvr's arn't all bad for the money but the cheap cameras they tend to bundle with them are poor i wouldn't worry to much about 5 fps it's usually enough to capture most things although saying that obviously a higher frame rate is better but don't be put off too much by it
 
On the budget given I wasn't even going to mention hd sdi's.

We have had successful convictions from CCTV evidence at work on numerous occasions using 600 & 700 tvl cameras and the police have commented on how good the footage was - but again, we supplemented the ambient lighting with security lighting and in some scenarios opt for cameras without infrared.

I still maintain for a home system you don't need anything more but as with anything, the more money you have the more bells and whistles the DVRs have and the better quality the footage is.
 
More good stuff. Thank you again Alan and thank you too Mark for the extra info.

I'm going to put all this together in my head now and work to get something sorted next weekend.
 
bl0at3r said:
On the budget given I wasn't even going to mention hd sdi's.

I still maintain for a home system you don't need anything more but as with anything, the more money you have the more bells and whistles the DVRs have and the better quality the footage is.
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i agree
i mentioned hd sdi because they are getting cheaper and it's the future of cctv domestic and business ( in my opinion )
it's the way i will be going some time in the future probably starting with a hybrid so i can still use my existing cameras until i replace them with hd sdi versions

you have given some good info out and the OP won't go far wrong if they followed it
 
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