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Roy1212

Roy1212

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Roy Newport
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Hi,I'm after some help if you can.
I have a canon 7d mkii which I bought for sport and wildlife mostly,The lenses I take out mostly are both L series.
The first one is a second hand 100-400 4.5 and the second is a 70-200 f4 non IS,I've been trying to photograph swallows and all I get is rubbish or blurred images.i take it it's mostly me but are these lenses good enough for this ?
Many thanks.Roy.

Ps the lenses both seem to struggle to pick up and focus in time.
 
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I don't know much about taking photos of birds, but I can't imagine swallows being very easy to get accurate focus on. I also can't comment on the quality of the camera's AF system or whether it will function fully on a lens that's higher than f/2.8 - something for you to consider and look into. However, have you got the camera in servo mode? Have you tried them on larger and more slowly moving subjects, just to check what results you get? Finally, have you attempted this sort of thing before, so you have something to relate to for comparison purposes.
 
You need to post a picture with all the exif in place (or tell us your settings.. (fstop - shutter speed - iso - camera mode things like that) before anyone can offer any real help.. its just guesswork otherwise..
 
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Swallows seem like very fast birds to me unless there's a large flock. Myself I would start practising on birds in the garden or ducks at your local pond. Both lenses are more than capable of taking the photos but bird photography comes with skill and some experience, hence starting on easier birds.

It maybe worth you spending some time on Canon 7Dii thread in the eqiupment section as there's some great advice for the use and settings for that camera.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/canon-7d-mk2-owners-thread.565222/page-43#post-6905579
 
Roy it may also help if you tell us the settings you have used to take the photos.
 
I've deleted them now but will in the future.
 
Wildlife and sport are two areas where you just have to use good equipment, and you certainly have that, but unfortunately you need much more - the gear is just the start ;) To be successful at wildlife, you need a) good kit, b) full understanding of the AF system, c) good photographic knowledge, and d) excellent camera technique. Probably most important of all is field craft and endless patience.

Basically, it takes time and effort. Fortunately, the learning process is usually both enjoyable and very rewarding :)
 
Field craft I like to think I have ,although two replacement needs don't help,lol
 
What mode do you use when taking these shots?

The image above looks like the shutter speed was not high enough.
 
Swanseajack said:
Swallows seem like very fast birds to me unless there's a large flock. Myself I would start practising on birds in the garden or ducks at your local pond. Both lenses are more than capable of taking the photos but bird photography comes with skill and some experience, hence starting on easier birds.

It maybe worth you spending some time on Canon 7Dii thread in the eqiupment section as there's some great advice for the use and settings for that camera.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/canon-7d-mk2-owners-thread.565222/page-43#post-6905579
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Unable to find the thread Jack? Found it.lol thanks.
 
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Royroy1111 said:
Unable to find the thread Jack? Found it.lol thanks.
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Maybe better to upload images to Flickr if you have an account, they keep some detail and usually the EXIF info intact so we can all see the settings. It helps for people to give advice otherwise you can add the info to the photos.

This second photo looks better and seems like good focus on the eye, we must also remember when we load to the forum theres some compression to the photos so they may look worse here than on your screen at home. It's one of the reasons why loading to flickr can also help, as we can click onto the Flickr link and see the photo in higher resolution.

Also Roy, shooting in harsh sunlight is difficult with bird phtography , part of the bird in bright sunshine, part in tree shade etc.... keep at it and have a good look at the Canon 7D thread I mentioned earlier and you will see a big improvement with some practise on more static birds.
 
Royroy1111 said:
I tend to download to iPad and then delete from the camera,I shall try not to do that in the future.I always use manual and play around with it.View attachment 40489
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Is there a reason you're using manual? Not sure anyone would use manual for this type of photography and you're probably only making life difficult for yourself.
 
Royroy1111 said:
What would you use?
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Not manual. Probably aperture priority with a sharp aperture and reasonably high ISO to eke out the most shutter speed that I could. I don't tend to shoot birds though.
Is there a reason you're choosing to use manual?
 
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Just reada article on shooting in AV mode ,I thought it was the thing to do,I'm going to try AV mode for a few weeks in still life.
 
ghoti said:
Is there a reason you're using manual? Not sure anyone would use manual for this type of photography and you're probably only making life difficult for yourself.
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I think a lot of bird photgraphers use manual mode. Myself, I can let the ISO run auto and control shutter speed and aperture off the two wheels on my body. Same with exposure compensation, can alter when camera is at eye.

These are for Nikon, not sure if it's the same with the OP who uses Canon.
 
Swanseajack said:
I think a lot of bird photgraphers use manual mode. Myself, I can let the ISO run auto and control shutter speed and aperture off the two wheels on my body. Same with exposure compensation, can alter when camera is at eye.

These are for Nikon, not sure if it's the same with the OP who uses Canon.
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I would tend to disagree with this statement. I would say most bird photographers use aperture priority and adjust ISO to obtain a fast shutter speed.
 
DerekL said:
Why would manual v Av be any different between Nikon and Canon or any other camera make?
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Button layout due to different makes??? I'm not sure what AV means for Canon.
 
Swanseajack said:
Button layout due to different makes??? I'm not sure what AV means for Canon.
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I do not want to get into a drawn out discussion about this but curiosity has got the better of me. Surely in aperture priority mode on any camera you set the aperture and press the shutter button.
Provided you keep an eye on shutter speed how is this more difficult than manual on any camera.
 
DerekL said:
I do not want to get into a drawn out discussion about this but curiosity has got the better of me. Surely in aperture priority mode on any camera you set the aperture and press the shutter button.
Provided you keep an eye on shutter speed how is this more difficult than manual on any camera.
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I haven't said it's more difficult.

For me, using manual I can alter, SS, Aperture, EC & ISO whilst the camera is at my eye, I have control of the camera. Can you do that in AV mode?

Manual works for me on my D750, so I use it. AV works for you but give manual a try to see how you get on.
 
Swanseajack said:
I haven't said it's more difficult.

For me, using manual I can alter, SS, Aperture, EC & ISO whilst the camera is at my eye, I have control of the camera. Can you do that in AV mode?

Manual works for me on my D750, so I use it. AV works for you but give manual a try to see how you get on.
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You don't need to use EC if you're shooting manual. EC is using your camera's meter so it defeats the purpose of shooting manual.
Manual just overcomplicates things. Surely it's just quicker to shoot in Av to give you a quick start point and then adjust S/S using EC if needed?
Manual seems unnecessarily complicated for this sort of photography.
 
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Swanseajack said:
I haven't said it's more difficult.

For me, using manual I can alter, SS, Aperture, EC & ISO whilst the camera is at my eye, I have control of the camera. Can you do that in AV mode?

Manual works for me on my D750, so I use it. AV works for you but give manual a try to see how you get on.
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On most Canon cameras there's no such thing as exposure compensation when in M, you set your aperture or SS to get over or under. I believe it works differently on Nikon's.
 
It seems to be Phil. It looks as if the other comments are from Canon users.

ghoti said:
You don't need to use EC if you're shooting manual. EC is using your camera's meter so it defeats the purpose of shooting manual.
Manual just overcomplicates things. Surely it's just quicker to shoot in Av to give you a quick start point and then adjust S/S using EC if needed?
Manual seems unnecessarily complicated for this sort of photography.
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When I'm using manual I have a start point of say 1/1250, f6.3, Auto ISO, EC +0.3 etc............. I can then adjust all these with the camera at my eye. I can go from auto ISO by pressing the ISO Button, the aperture and SS is then adjusted using my index and thumb using the wheel dials, the EC I can alter by pressing a button close to the wheels. Also the BBF is close by also. When you get used to it, it becomes second nature.

To me it's not overcomplicating things, I have full control of the camera. With the base settings above I'm not changing things every two seconds.

The layout of your Canons maybe not so user friendly compared to my Nikon D750, but give manual a go and see if it's any use to your style of shooting. I used to hate using BBF for years then about six months ago, I give it a go again and said I would give it a fair chance of a months use. After getting used to it I wouldn't go back now.
 
Swanseajack said:
It seems to be Phil. It looks as if the other comments are from Canon users.



When I'm using manual I have a start point of say 1/1250, f6.3, Auto ISO, EC +0.3 etc............. I can then adjust all these with the camera at my eye. I can go from auto ISO by pressing the ISO Button, the aperture and SS is then adjusted using my index and thumb using the wheel dials, the EC I can alter by pressing a button close to the wheels. Also the BBF is close by also. When you get used to it, it becomes second nature.
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Yes, but EC isn't actually doing anything at all to the camera in manual mode. All it's doing is changing the position of the indicator in the exposure meter in your viewfinder.

You could do EXACTLY the same with Av but with less fiddling. You set your aperture and EC to +0.3, your camera chooses the S/S then you simply adjust EC and the camera does the rest - using exactly the same information as it uses for the exposure meter in manual except you don't have to touch the S/S. You have full control of your camera in Av (through EC) but you can just forget about one of the settings.

I don't understand why someone would ever bother shooting manual if they're consulting the exposure meter anyway. Manual is only really necessary in situations where your exposure meter is useless.
 
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EC works in manual mode on Nikons when using Auto ISO, as the camera is still metering for the ISO level

I have been using this above method for a few weeks now and find it very useful indeed, but as said it might not work the same with Canon
 
I understand what you're saying Simon. The Canon is just as user friendly (but there's a different attitude to EC).

However. 90% of my shooting is semi auto. It's one control quicker - except where it's necessary at which point Manual is often at least one control quicker.

There is no reason for anyone ever to suggest any mode is 'correct'. If Manual was the 'target mode' (as some seem to think) then no-one would have invented auto modes. At the end of the day, what matters is the image, and whether you use P mode AV or M, what difference does it make.

BTW that's a rhetorical question, but I have had people try to tell me that the image in M mode with identical settings to an identical image shot in AV would be 'better' for having been shot Manually o_O

And just so you understand I'm comfortable with M, I shot almost exclusively with a Bronica for 10 years, my first camera had no auto mode and I didn't embrace AF till 2001.
 
rpsmith79 said:
EC works in manual mode on Nikons when using Auto ISO, as the camera is still metering for the ISO level

I have been using this above method for a few weeks now and find it very useful indeed, but as said it might not work the same with Canon
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It doesn't work the same with Canon except (IIRC) the 5dIII and 1dx
 
Phil V said:
It doesn't work the same with Canon except (IIRC) the 5dIII and 1dx
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Ahh, that would explain some of the confusion above

It really does help with wildlife shooting as you want to control both the Shutter Speed and Aperture for different situations, so for me switching between the 2 modes became a PITA, but after the Manual and Auto ISO method was explained to me, i tried it out and found it very useful as it allows full control with the added bonus of being able to dial in some EC when shooting against a bright sky for example
 
ghoti said:
Yes, but EC isn't actually doing anything at all to the camera in manual mode. All it's doing is changing the position of the indicator in the exposure meter in your viewfinder.

You could do EXACTLY the same with Av but with less fiddling. You set your aperture and EC to +0.3, your camera chooses the S/S then you simply adjust EC and the camera does the rest - using exactly the same information as it uses for the exposure meter in manual except you don't have to touch the S/S. You have full control of your camera in Av (through EC) but you can just forget about one of the settings.

I don't understand why someone would ever bother shooting manual if they're consulting the exposure meter anyway. Manual is only really necessary in situations where your exposure meter is useless.
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I hope I'm reading this wrong, but when people usually put there words in capitals they are shouting "You could do EXACTLY the same with Av but with less fiddling" I have been polite in this thread so I expect the same back.

I think Rich explains why to use EC when in manual mode. I should have mentioned it earlier in the thread, rather than relaying on people to read the link I posted earlier in thread. I have seen me dialing in upto 1.7 EC to get the underside of a bird exposed properly when shooting against a bright sky. So it's not changing the position of the indicator it's actually altering the EC.


rpsmith79 said:
Ahh, that would explain some of the confusion above

It really does help with wildlife shooting as you want to control both the Shutter Speed and Aperture for different situations, so for me switching between the 2 modes became a PITA, but after the Manual and Auto ISO method was explained to me, i tried it out and found it very useful as it allows full control with the added bonus of being able to dial in some EC when shooting against a bright sky for example
Click to expand...


As Phil has pointed out, there is no right or wrong to operate the camera in the relevant modes, I'm using what I think is best for my shooting.
 
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Swanseajack said:
I hope I'm reading this wrong, but when people usually put there words in capitals they are shouting "You could do EXACTLY the same with Av but with less fiddling" I have been polite in this thread so I expect the same back.

I think Rich explains why to use EC when in manual mode. I should have mentioned it earlier in the thread, rather than relaying on people to read the link I posted earlier in thread. I have seen me dialing in upto 1.7 EC to get the underside of a bird exposed properly when shooting against a bright sky. So it's not changing the position of the indicator it's actually altering the EC.
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I'm not "shouting", it's emphasis. It's too much faff to do italics when posting from a phone.

Okay, so what the EC is doing in this situation is altering the ISO. So you're not controlling ISO manually at all. I get you now. That just wasn't my understanding of shooting manual. If you're controlling ISO through EC it's a semi automatic mode rather than a full manual mode to my mind.
 
Phil V said:
I understand what you're saying Simon. The Canon is just as user friendly (but there's a different attitude to EC).

However. 90% of my shooting is semi auto. It's one control quicker - except where it's necessary at which point Manual is often at least one control quicker.

There is no reason for anyone ever to suggest any mode is 'correct'. If Manual was the 'target mode' (as some seem to think) then no-one would have invented auto modes. At the end of the day, what matters is the image, and whether you use P mode AV or M, what difference does it make.

BTW that's a rhetorical question, but I have had people try to tell me that the image in M mode with identical settings to an identical image shot in AV would be 'better' for having been shot Manually o_O

And just so you understand I'm comfortable with M, I shot almost exclusively with a Bronica for 10 years, my first camera had no auto mode and I didn't embrace AF till 2001.
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Never heard of manual producing photos better than auto modes.

When I changed back to Nikon late last year, I read about people using manual mode and BBF for bird photography so I have given them a go and they work for me at present. Others use other modes which is fine by me and they produce the photos they are happy with. It would be a boring old place if we were all the same.
 
My only thought is in normal situations when the needle is in the middle if I have spent the best part of a grand on all this technology I might as well use it. Same with AF having bad sight I would no longer attempt to manually focus. But as you say to each his own and in the end it's the images that matter.
 
DerekL said:
My only thought is in normal situations when the needle is in the middle if I have spent the best part of a grand on all this technology I might as well use it. Same with AF having bad sight I would no longer attempt to manually focus. But as you say to each his own and in the end it's the images that matter.
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I do hope you're kidding.
Your meter is only guessing what the subject is. In reality it has no idea whether it's looking at a black cat in a cellar or a polar bear on an ice flow. If you think getting the needle in the middle is as good as it's going to get, sorry but you're miles out.

Modern cameras have some fairly brilliant computers trying to work out what the subject is, and compared to the old 'centre weighted metering' I grew up with, they're right the vast majority of the time. But they're wrong often enough that we shouldn't blindly trust them.
 
In my defence I did say in normal conditions. I do appreciate that sometimes you need to take control and look at the histogram. I tend to shoot non league football where the light stays even and only fades during a winter game. In this situation I keep an eye on the SS and adjust the ISO accordingly.
 
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