Adult Dental Xray film onto 127 paper = half frame 127?

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beanfoto2

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I own several Bencini Comets that can use the rare 127 half(?) frame 3 x4.
I also have a Baby Yashica that looks cool on a shelf, but would look even cooler in my hands burning film
I also plan to use X ray film for 5 x 4 (in) photography.
Looking at X ray prices I noticed that Adult Dental Xray film is 3 x 4
I have bought the cheapest oldest 127 film off eBay, (almost 50 years past Expiry date), and so have a supply of backing paper without a 120 to 127 jig
Now Dental Xray film comes in a pack of 150 and the cheapest price I have found is £10.
Attractive compared with £10 for 1 roll of Efke, no?
Problem is that Dental Xray comes in individual frames, usually in a nice pastel blue shaded pouch I can't see how you get into.
Apart from the faff of mounting individual frames onto the backing sheet ACCURATELY in the dark or under darkroom light, anybody any idea how you can secure it safely into place?

Bean
 
You can pick up standard 127 film from Maco Direct and fotoimpex not as cheap as dental X-ray film but as least you know it's fresh and will give you results.
 
beanfoto2 said:
I own several Bencini Comets that can use the rare 127 half(?) frame 3 x4.
I also have a Baby Yashica that looks cool on a shelf, but would look even cooler in my hands burning film
I also plan to use X ray film for 5 x 4 (in) photography.
Looking at X ray prices I noticed that Adult Dental Xray film is 3 x 4
I have bought the cheapest oldest 127 film off eBay, (almost 50 years past Expiry date), and so have a supply of backing paper without a 120 to 127 jig
Now Dental Xray film comes in a pack of 150 and the cheapest price I have found is £10.
Attractive compared with £10 for 1 roll of Efke, no?
Problem is that Dental Xray comes in individual frames, usually in a nice pastel blue shaded pouch I can't see how you get into.
Apart from the faff of mounting individual frames onto the backing sheet ACCURATELY in the dark or under darkroom light, anybody any idea how you can secure it safely into place?

Bean
Click to expand...

Bean, it sounds quite an interesting idea, but there seem to be many problems...

Do you know what the effective ISO of the film is to visible light? I see from a manufacturers site that one is described as D-speed (bright room), and another as E-speed (dark room), from memory. It looks like the latter is faster, but given the amount of time taken to take a dental X ray, you might be looking at quite long exposure times (minutes?) to get contrasty images from visible light.

I'm not very good at manipulating things with my hands, but the only way I could imagine you mounting these accurately in the dark (or gloom if it's VERY slow film) would be to use some sort of template, maybe cut-out cardboard, above the backing paper, and use that to guide where you attach each frame. That way you could place it reasonably accurately wrt the frame numbers on the backing paper. I've no idea how you could attach it to the backing paper strongly enough to survive being rolled, unrolled during winding, and re-rolled in camera.

In a way it might be good to take the back off one of the cameras and use some sort of dark slide, as they use in large format. To experiment you might be able to make one out of cardboard... but accurately positioning it would be pretty hard. The advantage would be you don't have to fasten the film to anything, or roll/unroll it. And you could shoot a couple of frames and experiment with the processing... which is another thing! Standard black and white chems? What timings? I suppose this info must be available for the Xray use; once there's an image the processing would presumably be the same.

To me it's an intriguing challenge, but not one I would be tempted to take on. But I'm interested! Do please give it a go, and let us know how you get on. I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions if you come across problems. Post some pics, please!
 
Using x-ray film is pretty common with large format, 8x10 is relatively cheap and can be cut down for the smaller formats. I'm not sure how easy it is to cut these things open nor mount it to the paper or single shot it in the film gate.
 
*someone* obviously needs to invent a double-dark-slide back for half-frame 127 cameras.
 
abdoujaparov said:
*someone* obviously needs to invent a double-dark-slide back for half-frame 127 cameras.
Click to expand...
Good idea, if only we knew *someone* with that sort of ability :whistle:
 
you can use 35mm in most 127 cameras with some fiddling about
 
If it was me...I'd be using the hinged back of the camera as the holder rather than trying to build a clip on double holder unless you have access to a 3D printer. You'd have to carry a dark bag to swap the film after each shot but this isn't going to be a run and gun camera anyway :0)

Looking at pictures of Bencini Comets (assuming yours is the 'traditional' camera style), the rear door is hinged on the right so I'd open the back, take a piece of the X-ray film and hold it against the film gate so you know where is needs to be mounted. Once there, it will take some trial and error but you need to measure the distance to the rear door so you can build a simple mount for the sheet of film that will be attached to the rear door. There would need to be a slot on each side of the face of the mount for the sheet of film to slot into then the camera door could be shut and locked with the film in the right place.

Good luck!

Cheers
Steve
 
Thanks people.
I am aware you can roll 35mm in 127 paper, and intend to try this, especially now I have a 35mm bulk loader.
I like the idea of ChrisR's cardboard template, but am stuck on how to securely secure(...) the individual frames to survive the rigors of film transport.
As to times/ISOs/ dev and whatever, there are enough Large format ers using XRay film, (Have you seen the price of even B&W 4 by 5???) to tap into as a resource.
As to devising a holder, I DO have potential access to a 3D printer, but believe me, getting to the actual printing stage can be an enormous faff, if someone hasn't already PDed a CAD file for your exact part. (,And that with access to a 3D scanner too..)
It is a thought I hadn't considered tho'
As to Bencini Comets, even the non Comet IIIs, (to those not in the know the one that looks like a Super 8 cine camera, comparatively pricey, and rare with it), there are several changes thru their history, maybe just for the fun of it maybe.
I just eBayed a Comet and was shocked when I opened the package and the back fell out. After stilling my beating heart, I looked at the camera calmly and saw a mechanism on both sides of the camera back, and after several minutes fiddling hear a satisfying click as the back plate seated itself and I could close up.
I still have to suss the technique and how you could do it quickly in the field with a following wind.
However this design would make it absolutely ideal for some film holder design that involved cutting and bodging a spare back, possibly involving hole cutters, drills and Superglue, if not also TIG welding, (I believe the whole body may be cast aluminium).
Bean
 
You will have to take the entire camera into a dark bag even if the back is fully removable unless you can slot a dark slide into the base of the rear camera section so you can mount s piece of film then slide the cover over it. After you re-attach it to the camera body you could then pull the dark slide down to make the film ready to be exposed.

It's definitely going to be more fiddly than a dedicated film holder with built in dark slides but potentially easier to make.
 
Oh come on, @stevelmx5, when have you ever taken the simple option?

Actually I find this all intensely interesting. I've been reading up on LF with Xray film; it seems to be "medical" Xray film as opposed to dental. Comments about it being very soft and easily scratched; I'd guess the dental Xray film was different stuff, as it actually goes inside your mouth (although maybe in some Xray-translucent holder, I've not been paying attention at the appropriate moments!). The LF guys seem to rate theirs at somewhere between ISO 200 and 25. There are clearly 3 speeds of dental film (D, E and F in increasing speed order); I found a plea from the US medical authorities that dentists should pay the extra few cents for the faster stuff, to reduce Xray exposure on their patients. Apparently not red sensitive, so you could maybe do some fiddling under a 7-watt red safety lamp. Somewhere I saw that it's thicker than normal photo film, which can apparently cause problems with film holders, and I suppose would make it even harder to get it to bend into a roll. Some is double-sided; there seemed to be an implication that you could get an image from both sides of the film in one exposure, the second image fainter and possibly OOF. The portrait images I saw were fantastic, with a very different quality to them.

So, more power to your elbow, Bean. Please keep up the good work, and do report progress here. If you tease @stevelmx5 enough you might end up with CAD designs for the film-holder/dark slide for your backless Comet, for your 3D printer to make... :)

Oh and welcome to TP, and the best bit of TP: F&C!:welcome:
 
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