Adobe, pirated software

[acidliam]

The other point to raise is, why do we in the UK have to pay so much more for the software?

Case in point: Adobe CS3 master collection.

US Version. $2,499
UK Version. £2,200

Work that out!

Didn't adobe claim that the price hike was to do with additional language features or something?!

Bck to the topic in hand, while piracy IS a crime and obviously very very naughty, it does generate business for software companies. ie end users may play around with some copied software, get to like it then introduce it to a commercial platform.

(I've seen this happen twice resulting in large amounts being spent on multi site licenses before anyone says rubbish.)

 

[Steep]

No matter what the software is, if you're short of cash, there's almost always a decent 'legal' cheaper or even free alternative product. OpenOffice, Ability Office, GiMP, PSP....

SourceForge is a fantastic repository of software where you can find pretty near anything you need to do the job for free.

 

[Slapo]

No matter what the software is, if you're short of cash, there's almost always a decent 'legal' cheaper or even free alternative product. OpenOffice, Ability Office, GiMP, PSP....

SourceForge is a fantastic repository of software where you can find pretty near anything you need to do the job for free.

I'm with Steep on this one, most people are just too lazy to search for alternatives.
Whatever your reason is to use pirated software, it IS an equivalent of your employer not paying you anything for your work. As far as I know, software development in commercial companies isn't just, say, a year and then they all go to Hawaii, it's actually more like Work-> Release party -> Work again on both a new version and on patches for bugs found in the old version.

There's some very nice free software out there, even if you have to learn a thing or two, it's better than theft. If you use something commercial for your work or hobby, pay for it, otherwise there might not be a next version or it gets even more expensive. Almost all software companies have at least a trial version available.

 

[Garrie]

One other thing to consider is that the keygens used to unlock such things contain malware. And more worryingly, that malware also normally consists of a rootkit!

Why? because the people who write the keygens ARE the malware writers!

So, if you want your computer to be tracking every key press (done your banking online recently) and become part of a DDoS zombie network, go ahead, it's free afterall

Surely this would show up via Anti Virus etc?

Anyone ignoring it would be a fool to do so

 

[Marcel]

Not all the time Garrie. Some keygens can be safe, some can't. Is it *really* worth the risk?

 

[Garrie]

Ahh I didn't know that

I know a lot of small businesses using pirate software, its scary really.

 

[inaneredstripe]

personaly, i would never dream of using any pirated software. its totaly immoral . yeah right.
if they werent so bloo..min expensive in the first place, theyd sell more and put piracy out of biz anyway.
how many people on here have more than one puter in the house?
i bet youve bought a seperate copy of windowstm for every one of them havent you.
mmmmmm

 

[andrewc]

Lots of small businesses are using pirate software, partly out of ignorance, and partly because a lot of small businesses can't afford the flippin' outrageous prices Adobe charge for these things, yet need the software to compete in the modern world.

 

[CraigDouglas]

I think the difference is that a nice 'L' lens that might cost a thousand pounds or more will last you 10 years or more so you dont mind spending the money for the best lens available.

I don't see why you'd need to upgrade unless you wanted more of the latest features. Think of it like buying a new camera body. It will be full of all the latest features for a yearor so, but when new features are brought out, they release a new version. The only thing making you upgrade is your desire for new features.

 

[Ross]

I have no problem running pirated software and have done for as long as I can remember. If I used my copy of Photoshop or Lightroom (or whatever) for commercial purposes then I'd buy a legit copy.

 

[Plugus Maximus]

The issue is this. Computer files can be replicated at near zero cost. The vast majority of people would not steal a lens or camera becuase not only is the risk of being caught is far higher but it cuases the individual you stole it from harm or hassle. Taking an 'alternatively sourced' copy of a file (be it software or mp3's) has no tangable impact on the owner aside from lost revenue. Even with massive piracy of software these companies are still financially viable as business's will predominantly pay for the software (though many startup/smaller companies will not). Piracy is most often for private use. If Adobe were to prevent illegal copies very few people would be able to afford the retail price as a result heir revenues would remain largely unaltered.

Technically piracy is wrong, but I feel it is harmless especially as it happens to all players in the market place equally. No company is more at a disadvantage than another. IMHO all software should be free for private use.

 

[Jonnyreb]

I'm sorry, but the point is still being missed. Who cares whether piracy is right or wrong? Its ILLEGAL. You do not get to decide to steal something just because you dont want to pay the RSP. It doesn't matter whether an individual is being "inconvenienced" or a corporation - one is not a smaller or larger crime than the other.

If you decide you want a product then you purchase it - simple equation (or so i've always thought).

What if your boss decided not to pay you for a week. I mean, hey, who cares? You can still eat, right? You wont lose your home. It'll be quite a small inconvenience won't it? Next week it'll be your buddies turn and so on, and so on, and so on...........:shrug:

:bang:

The issue is this. Computer files can be replicated at near zero cost. The vast majority of people would not steal a lens or camera becuase not only is the risk of being caught is far higher but it cuases the individual you stole it from harm or hassle. Taking an 'alternatively sourced' copy of a file (be it software or mp3's) has no tangable impact on the owner aside from lost revenue. Even with massive piracy of software these companies are still financially viable as business's will predominantly pay for the software (though many startup/smaller companies will not). Piracy is most often for private use. If Adobe were to prevent illegal copies very few people would be able to afford the retail price as a result heir revenues would remain largely unaltered.

Technically piracy is wrong, but I feel it is harmless especially as it happens to all players in the market place equally. No company is more at a disadvantage than another. IMHO all software should be free for private use.

 

[Chuckurbarla]

It doesn't help to try to justify stealing. You either pay for it or you're a thief.

End of Story.

There are no shades of grey in this one, 18% or otherwise.

 

[Yv]

so, what about these on amazon market place? American imports or copies?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B000O17CQ0/ref=sr_1_olp_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1195138245&sr=1-1

 

[NathanJT]

Surely this would show up via Anti Virus etc?

Anyone ignoring it would be a fool to do so

That's assuming your AV can detect it in the first place! Most rootkits are designed to be completely invisible to the OS let alone AV running on top of it!

 

[Ross]

I'm sorry, but the point is still being missed. Who cares whether piracy is right or wrong? Its ILLEGAL. You do not get to decide to steal something just because you dont want to pay the RSP. It doesn't matter whether an individual is being "inconvenienced" or a corporation - one is not a smaller or larger crime than the other.

If you decide you want a product then you purchase it - simple equation (or so i've always thought).

What if your boss decided not to pay you for a week. I mean, hey, who cares? You can still eat, right? You wont lose your home. It'll be quite a small inconvenience won't it? Next week it'll be your buddies turn and so on, and so on, and so on...........:shrug:

:bang:

I'm sensing you're a software developer

 

[Plugus Maximus]

Its ILLEGAL.

I don't disagree with that. It's also illegal to drive over the speed limit or ride a motorcycle with a dark visor. Millions of people do all this daily - technically they are criminals but I doubt any of them loose any sleep over it, and most people would not classify those law breakers as criminals.

It doesn't help to try to justify stealing. You either pay for it or you're a thief.

Again there is no dispute here. Legally there is no distinction between stealing a file or stealing a harrier jump jet. But most people would make a distinction between the two.

The point I am trying to get across is copyright laws for corporate software can not be adequately enforced. If it becomes endemic then everyone will be at it, the laws, barriers or business models needs to alter.

To make an analogy - let's assume you arrive at a music festival. There is one entrance which people must queue up at to pay for entry and enter the site. All of a sudden the fence is pushed over and in excess of 90% of the crowd wander freely into the site. Would you wander over to the gate and pay the £100 entrance fee or follow the crowd? Me? If everyone had stood still and remained queing I would too, I certainly wouldn't be the first to run past the fence I probably wouldn't move if even 15% jumped the queue, but there comes apoint when the switch is flicked and you'd be an idiot not to follow the masses. :shrug:

 

[Cobra]

What`s the deal with that? Would that extend to a 10 week evening course or is it only recognised courses with qualifications at the end?

I got student rates following the OU course I did on line, you will need to send in ( email) a copy of your student reg. and a copy of your driving licence, I scanned both and emailed it accross, with a covering "letter" no problem at all.
If you have these items to hand just go to adobe and order at students rates, they will NOT take payment until they are satisfied you qualify, they will email you with their requirements, I got CS3 extended in about 3 days though the "predicted" delivery time was about 3 weeks

 

[Yv]

Again there is no dispute here. Legally there is no distinction between stealing a file or stealing a harrier jump jet. But most people would make a distinction between the two.

As in fact would most courts too.... both are illegal, but would warrant different punishment, so illegal by degrees if you like.

 

[Jonnyreb]

I'm sensing you're a software developer

Lol - no, sadly not. Just an honest, hard working citizen with some ethics. I'm just amazed that the amateur togs (some pro's) on here are so frivolous with the laws that protect their own copyright.

I don't disagree with that.

Jolly good.

 

[Yv]

I got student rates following the OU course I did on line, you will need to send in ( email) a copy of your student reg. and a copy of your driving licence, I scanned both and emailed it accross, with a covering "letter" no problem at all.
If you have these items to hand just go to adobe and order at students rates, they will NOT take payment until they are satisfied you qualify, they will email you with their requirements, I got CS3 extended in about 3 days though the "predicted" delivery time was about 3 weeks

I was looking at those a short while ago - I got student copy of MS Office a few years ago whilst at college and saved a bundle - however, Adobes site does say it also allows the under 18's at acreditted primary and secondary [obviously with a parent paying] school to purchase - proof such a report card, photo ID, etc.... however, what do they mean by accreditted? Any 'official' school, or what? I mean if I can use this to purchase Adobe s/w, I wouldnt even be technically fibbing, my brat jumps on the lappy and starts messings with pics the minute I put it down

 

[Chuckurbarla]

I was looking at those a short while ago - I got student copy of MS Office a few years ago whilst at college and saved a bundle - however, Adobes site does say it also allows the under 18's at acreditted primary and secondary [obviously with a parent paying] school to purchase - proof such a report card, photo ID, etc.... however, what do they mean by accreditted? Any 'official' school, or what? I mean if I can use this to purchase Adobe s/w, I wouldnt even be technically fibbing, my brat jumps on the lappy and starts messings with pics the minute I put it down

Go ahead LL, perfectly legal and above board for you to by your 'brat' a copy.

 

[Yv]

Go ahead LL, perfectly legal and above board for you to by your 'brat' a copy.

:bonk: Wish I had known that over the last few years!

Thanks chuckurbarla, useful to know for the future!

 

[Chuckurbarla]

I got my MS Office suite when I was a student a few years ago too. Can't afford PS so I use Gimp, Paint.net, and anything else free.

 

[Ross]

Lol - no, sadly not. Just an honest, hard working citizen with some ethics. I'm just amazed that the amateur togs (some pro's) on here are so frivolous with the laws that protect their own copyright.

It's also illegal to record a television program and retain it for more than 30 days. I hope you don't do this, otherwise that makes you just as much of a thief as I am

 

[Ross]

I got my MS Office suite when I was a student a few years ago too. Can't afford PS so I use Gimp, Paint.net, and anything else free.

I'm 99% certain that you if you are no longer a student you no longer have any rights to use the software and must either remove it or pay for a full version.

Ignorance is no defence either

It's exactly the same with claiming unemployment benefits and then getting a job, but still claiming the benefits

 

[Jonnyreb]

It's also illegal to record a television program and retain it for more than 30 days. I hope you don't do this, otherwise that makes you just as much of a thief as I am

Nope - I watch cricket, rugby and Top Gear, with a narrow schedule like that i don't have the need to record anything.

Is this a "safety in mumbers" or a "hypocritcal" plea? If it makes you feel less guilty, i once gratuitously slaughtered a wasp, I quite often swear and take a perverse pleasure in upsetting those of the cloth.

 

[Ross]

No I was just wondering how far your morals go towards pirated software in comparison to say - downloading avi's of american TV shows not shown over here.

ie. If you're totally against all sorts of copyright infringements or just certain types

 

[Jonnyreb]

No I was just wondering how far your morals go towards pirated software in comparison to say - downloading avi's of american TV shows not shown over here.

ie. If you're totally against all sorts of copyright infringements or just certain types

Only like Scrubs (really not a TV person, I'm enough of a vegetable as it is) and I bought seasons 1 to 5 through Amazon. Waiting for the 6th

Copyright is important and really should be important to all of us on here. its not something you can just turn on when it suits you or your cause :shrug:

 

[Chuckurbarla]

See, that's what I joined the forum for, you learn something every day.

Unfortunately I haven't got the Office suite any more, I gave it to another student before I came to Turkey. I haven't got a VCR or the DVD equivalent either so can't unknowingly get into trouble that way.

There are plenty of other ways in which I could get into trouble here but so far I've only been fined 2 lira for paying my car road tax late (by one day).

Of course being retired and being here precludes me from claiming any benefits.

 

[Cobra]

I'm 99% certain that you if you are no longer a student you no longer have any rights to use the software and must either remove it or pay for a full version.

Ignorance is no defence either

It's exactly the same with claiming unemployment benefits and then getting a job, but still claiming the benefits

I take your point but even "Adobe" must realise that not everyone is a perpetual student and they will in future go on to possibly work in the fields covered by their products, that were bought under student licence are they going to email everyone that bought on students rates, 10 years down the line and ask if they are in full time employment and if so can we please have the "balance of payments?" by which time version CS106 is current anyway

 

[Ross]

Makes no odds what jobs they have in the future. Under the student licensing agreement you agreed to when you clicked "install" you should be removing the software if you are no longer a student. Liken it to a discounted student buss or rail pass - should you still be using that studet bus / rail pass when you're in your 40's? No of course not.

Adobe aren't going to come after you and claim xx years number of back dated payments. Same as they won't come after me for xx years of no payment at all

I'm not defending my illegal usage, I know exactly what I'm doing and I don't lose any sleep over it. If I made money from my usage of the software I would pay for it.

 

[Cobra]

Makes no odds what jobs they have in the future. Under the student licensing agreement you agreed to when you clicked "install" you should be removing the software if you are no longer a student. Liken it to a discounted student buss or rail pass - should you still be using that studet bus / rail pass when you're in your 40's? No of course not.

Adobe aren't going to come after you and claim xx years number of back dated payments. Same as they won't come after me for xx years of no payment at all

I'm not defending my illegal usage, I know exactly what I'm doing and I don't lose any sleep over it. If I made money from my usage of the software I would pay for it.

Did I? Oh well, I don't read licencing agreements anyway
I know someone else that has less than "cosha" copy they don't make any money from it either they just like "playing around" they are not into photography more "urban art" type stuff. I am not condemming you by any means, and I wouldn't have bought it either had it not been for the "cut price"

Edit : forgot to add their name is Ross as well ( what is it with you guys? )

 

[Ross]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKNBPIMsCwU

 

[Matt Charlton]

Yarr!

 

[Matt Charlton]

Oh wait a minute, that image is probably copyrighted Disney, I'm going to hell.

At least I'll have company

Sorry, I felt it was getting a little heavy in here and we needed a bit of light relief.

 

[Slapo]

Ross, have a look at the answer to this question:

Do I need to have a student in my household in order to qualify to purchase and use Office Home and Student 2007?

http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/suites/HA101655301033.aspx

It says no. So as long as you use it non-commercially at home, it should be fine.
I'm not sure it's the same case with older versions, but it's probably the same.

 

[acidliam]

I'm sorry, but the point is still being missed. Who cares whether piracy is right or wrong? Its ILLEGAL. You do not get to decide to steal something just because you dont want to pay the RSP. It doesn't matter whether an individual is being "inconvenienced" or a corporation - one is not a smaller or larger crime than the other.

If you decide you want a product then you purchase it - simple equation (or so i've always thought).

What if your boss decided not to pay you for a week. I mean, hey, who cares? You can still eat, right? You wont lose your home. It'll be quite a small inconvenience won't it? Next week it'll be your buddies turn and so on, and so on, and so on...........:shrug:

:bang:

Would you hand in a five or 10 pound note to the police if you found one on the pavement? Probably not, it would be pointless and a waste of time. Yet by your blanket statements about theft and legality you would be a hardened criminal like the rest of them.

Unfortunately its a dog eat dog world, if, theoretically, I needed software to compete with a bigger client or to produce work to a certain level as a student I wouldn't think twice about 'borrowing' it from the internet for evaluation purposes. Common decency and morality are lost vitrues in this wonderful capitalist society we embrace. (end of socialist driven speech)

 

[Jonnyreb]

Would you hand in a five or 10 pound note to the police if you found one on the pavement? Probably not, it would be pointless and a waste of time. Yet by your blanket statements about theft and legality you would be a hardened criminal like the rest of them.

I hope you pay more attention to detail in your studies sunshine - you'll notice a proliferation of the caveat 'copyright' in my posts, and the point should not have been lost that copyright is what earns togs livings.

Finding cash on the pavement is not theft - there is certainly a moral decision to make over whether to hand it in or keep it.

As for me

 

[Slapo]

Would you hand in a five or 10 pound note to the police if you found one on the pavement? Probably not, it would be pointless and a waste of time. Yet by your blanket statements about theft and legality you would be a hardened criminal like the rest of them.

Unfortunately its a dog eat dog world, if, theoretically, I needed software to compete with a bigger client or to produce work to a certain level as a student I wouldn't think twice about 'borrowing' it from the internet for evaluation purposes. Common decency and morality are lost vitrues in this wonderful capitalist society we embrace. (end of socialist driven speech)

With attitudes like yours, they really seem to be.

Now, I'm not saying I've never used any pirated software, in fact, I have an illegal copy of Matlab installed now, and that's because we use it at school to perform some simulations. So if I want to go on with my school work at home, I have to have it installed. Now, I wouldn't hesitate to ask my father to buy a license for me if I actually wanted to use it. I'm not making profit using it and I don't think I ever will. I have also looked at the prices and distributors, but $99 for Matlab + Simulink and 89 Euros for the Polynomial toolbox is quite a bit of money for me only to help me to get assignments from school done. I don't want to use it, but sometimes I have to. It only helps me finish assignments.
Sure, there is Scilab, but it doesn't match Matlab in many aspects, some of those I need.

And this is all just a petty excuse.

My point is, unlike with a note, I know who I should pay if I was about to buy it.
I do own a copy of Office XP, student edition, and I own it legally (got it from my father on request) and I hate to have Matlab illegaly, it's the only pirated software I have installed on my PC and I'll be getting rid of it in about three months.

Every software I liked and used for personal or commercial use (I did a few small things for a bit of money before) I have bought either myself or asked my father to buy me a license except for the wretched Matlab (and Mathematica I used about 5 times), which will be history soon.
That's the way I believe it should be.