Absolutely Fuming!

RandomlySet

RandomlySet

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Out droning at a nearby reservoir, and then decided to move. So heading towards town, I decided to pull over and into where a new housing development will be going (no houses up, just a few diggers etc). [still shaking with rage as I type]....

So, i park up, and get the drone up, spin it around pointing towards town (away from the "building site" ) to get the sunset in shot.

The next thing I know, some guy is walking towards me and asks why I'm flying a drone. I said "because I wanted to and I can". He said my drone was on private property, so I laughed and said "any airspace above your shoelaces is public and noone owns it."........ He starts going on about "they" are chaging the regulations etc and kept saying the developers may not want me to film over their land. At this point I politely asked him to shut up whilst I bring the drone in.

Once landed, I asked him what he wanted. He just kept harping on about regulations chaging etc. I let him have his say for a couple of minutes and then asked him if I could have my say (so I could school him). Firstly I asked what these regualtions are he's refering to - airspace regs or drone regs? He said drone. So I acknowledged that yes "they" are talking about making them licenced, but in regards to airspace, anyone can fly in public airspace as long as they take from a legal place (which I had). I then said "forgive me if I sound like a prick, but have the developers banned BA/Virgin/RyanAir from using the flight path above?" He laughed.

He mentioned that you can have sensitive information removed from Google Maps... Yes, at a request - and that usually only applied to MOD/Area /Military etc, not housing developments.

He then asked what would happen if I flew over a farm and a farmer shot it down. I said he'd be up on charges for shooting down an aircraft. He said it isn't an aircraft. To which I pointed out it is, however it's a grey area and TBH, it'd probably get thrown out in court.

He then let slip he had a drone! [This got me furious] I said as a drone owner, he should know these rules. He said the drone was given to him, and he doesn't use it much.

Oh, I finally explained why I was filming. I explained that I didn't have to justify myself to him, but would anyway. I explained there is nothing of value around to shoot, and the video won't be uploaded. I explained that I have had the drone just a few months, so practising at homewith colour grading and colour correction.....

In the end we got chatting about where he was from (Wales), and also detailing!

Just a shame he started off as a prick and ruined what was supposed to be an enjoyable evening with a stunning sunset!



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This is the first negative experience I've had whilst out with the drone. TBH, ahd it been somewhere else, I think he'd have shown a keen interest. I just think on this occasion he was being a jumped up, stereotypical, security guard.

This is also why I get annoyed when I see anything in the news about regulations - Joe Bloggs all of a sudden thinks he's an expert and doesn't realise most responsible drone owners are fairly clued up on what they can and can't do!

Oh, he also said I was on nearby CCTV and had also grabbed a photo/video of me on his phone after I said I was bringing the drone in. I also said I didn't mind being on camera as I wasn't doing anything wrong.
 
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I was well over 100m away! It's a housing development with ZERO property built - just a couple of cabins.
 
At what point does a building become a property.

Either way the exchange you describe you both sound as argumentative as each other. Same way as photographers dictating their rights gets nobody anywhere.
 
True, however, I was about 50m clear of the cabins at launch, and I flew out to about 100-150m away from them still.

I wasn't being argumentative (I think the way I typed it up is wrong without typing a full dialogue). I was trying to educate him as he started off as though he knew best, which is why I decided to fly the drone in (after telling him I was doing so), so I could focus my full attention on what he was saying and they try to tell him (poilitely) why he was wrong and give him the correct facts......

But to come up to me and start spouting that "They" (whoever he thinks "they" are) are chaging the regulations, and then now knowing what regulations are to be changed, or anything regarding airspace really riled me! (I tried to not show it).
 
Next time try something along the following..

"oh hello sir. Yes this is my drone, nice of you to notice. No of course I won't be flying it near to yourself or buildings as per the drone safe code *produce leaflet*. Ill be flying over this public space over here *point*, away from anyone else. Hope that explains what I'm doing. Yes you have a nice day too."
 
sounds like you were just being a drone dick.
hope it becomes law you you can grab and smash them awful things.
 
Just checked my flight records, I started about 200-250ft away from where he came from (that is an estimation based on distance to where I fly the drone to). The drone was then flown 700ft away from myself in a fairly straight light without heading towards him.
 
Not good to shake with rage, need to find some calming strategies if something so trivial gets you this wound up.
 
RandomlySet said:
Just checked my flight records, I started about 200-250ft away from where he came from (that is an estimation based on distance to where I fly the drone to). The drone was then flown 700ft away from myself in a fairly straight light without heading towards him.
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As above, maybe next time be polite and explain what you are doing and how it won't be anywhere near them rather than going off on a "I know my rights" tack.
 
I'm pretty sure that drones will be regulated much more stringently in the very near future. There are so many issues with these, from conflict with aorcraft, to dropping drugs into prisons, and loads in between. Unfortunately, as with most things, some will look at using what can be very useful items, in an illegal, or irresponsible way.

I was recently at an AOA safety seminar, and much of the day was spent discussing the dangers of drones to aircraft. I also doubt many users would be happy if someone parked outside their house and stared filming through their living room window, which is pretty much the equivalent of what many drone users do.
 
Mr Bump said:
sounds like you were just being a drone dick.
hope it becomes law you you can grab and smash them awful things.
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I was flying well within guidelines, minding my own business..... Why on earth would you condone the destruction of someone's property? Jeeezzz....
 
I don't own a drone, I'm waiting for my dad to get board with his DJI Phantom 3, but it always surprises my that people think that your filming them. Like what on earth makes them think they're so special that you'd want to film them in the first place - some random stranger doing f**k all but they get so uptight about it.

When I'm filming with the DSLR and it has the mic attached I've had several bizare exchanges from people telling me I'm not allowed to film yet if I whip out the iPhone no one bats an eye - yet I'm still filming just the same!!!!
 
rick448 said:
I also doubt many users would be happy if someone parked outside their house and stared filming through their living room window, which is pretty much the equivalent of what many drone users do.
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For real!? Let's say I did do that, at 50m away (which is the closest you can legally get to a building), how good do you really think the image quality would be on a drone with a small sensor? Half the users on here with their telephoto lenses can get better quality if someone wanted to invade someones privacy.
 
Angelboy said:
I don't own a drone, I'm waiting for my dad to get board with his DJI Phantom 3, but it always surprises my that people think that your filming them. Like what on earth makes them think they're so special that you'd want to film them in the first place - some random stranger doing f**k all but they get so uptight about it.

When I'm filming with the DSLR and it has the mic attached I've had several bizare exchanges from people telling me I'm not allowed to film yet if I whip out the iPhone no one bats an eye - yet I'm still filming just the same!!!!
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Nail. On. The. Head.....

I asked this guy the same. I asked if he'd have approached me if I just had my Smart Phone out which is also capeable of 4k, and also has a better zoom range (the Mavic can't zoom when in 4k).

Put a camera 200ft in the air and people lose their f**king minds!
 
RandomlySet said:
For real!? Let's say I did do that, at 50m away (which is the closest you can legally get to a building), how good do you really think the image quality would be on a drone with a small sensor? Half the users on here with their telephoto lenses can get better quality if someone wanted to invade someones privacy.
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It wasn't aimed at you, more of a general comment, but as you seem to be quick to go on the defensive and are clearly not able to understand, or probably care about others concerns, who may not be photographers, or drone users, I can easily see how you came into conflict.
 
rick448 said:
I also doubt many users would be happy if someone parked outside their house and stared filming through their living room window, which is pretty much the equivalent of what many drone users do.
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Who's? Who does that? I know a few people with drones and not one of them film people through their windows.

Firstly, it's hardly covert is it?

Secondly, if you're doing something that you don't want people to see the close the curtains :)
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to get defensive. TBH, I thought more members on here would have been more understanding - after all, a drone is just another photography/videography tool.

In regards to the conflict, I'll be childish and say "well he started it :p"
 
RandomlySet said:
Nail. On. The. Head.....

I asked this guy the same. I asked if he'd have approached me if I just had my Smart Phone out which is also capeable of 4k, and also has a better zoom range (the Mavic can't zoom when in 4k).

Put a camera 200ft in the air and people lose their f**king minds!
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I think that's because you are less likely to be challenged with a drone some way away, than pointing an iPhone at someone, when you may end up getting
Angelboy said:
Who's? Who does that? I know a few people with drones and not one of them film people through their windows.

Firstly, it's hardly covert is it?

Secondly, if you're doing something that you don't want people to see the close the curtains :)
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It was an analogy, there are plenty who fly drones over people gardens and film them.
 
RandomlySet said:
I was flying well within guidelines, minding my own business..... Why on earth would you condone the destruction of someone's property? Jeeezzz....
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people hate drones its people like you that just dont get it
 
Mr Bump said:
people hate drones its people like you that just dont get it
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People hate drones?

I've only ever seen one and that was when walking in the hills so I'd have to have a lot more sightings to hate them, are they really common enough to generate hate?

Having said all that the reports of them flying over airfields etc are worrying and anyone caught doing that should be flayed alive but honestly I've never seen one other than that one miles from anywhere.
 
I agree. There are some real numpties out there, but that applies to everything. For example, there are people who use cameras for VERY wrong reasons, or drive above the speed limit, or whatever... No matter what your hobby is, there will always be a minority that risk giving it a bad name.

It is the minority that are flying like dicks around airports*, schools and prisons etc.



*although a lot of drone "near misses" have actually turned out to not be drones, and in a few cases were carrier bags in the wind lol
 
RandomlySet said:
I agree. There are some real numpties out there, but that applies to everything. For example, there are people who use cameras for VERY wrong reasons, or drive above the speed limit, or whatever... No matter what your hobby is, there will always be a minority that risk giving it a bad name.

It is the minority that are flying like dicks around airports*, schools and prisons etc.



*although a lot of drone "near misses" have actually turned out to not be drones, and in a few cases were carrier bags in the wind lol
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As I said, it is a hot topic for the CAA, and as someone in the aviation industry, I fully understand why. The problem is that the potential consequences are so high that it needs acting upon. Look at the outrage following the Grenfell tower fire, well if a drone downed a 747 or A380 that would be multiplied by 3 or 4 in potential deaths, let alone the fact this is a well documented risk.
 
I agree something needs to be done - how they will police that I don't know (we can't even police unlicenced drivers fully).

Software updates such as geofencing prisons, airports etc would be start. So your drone essentialy hits an invisible wall and stops to a hover. Of course, there will be people who either hack the app, or create their own app to get around this....

Personally, I fly well within my comfort zone. The Mavic has a range of 8mi (13km), which is beyond LOS, yet I've barely gone beyond 1,000ft with it. Hell, I've even bought it back to land, walk to a new take off point and start again lol
 
rick448 said:
As I said, it is a hot topic for the CAA, and as someone in the aviation industry, I fully understand why. The problem is that the potential consequences are so high that it needs acting upon. Look at the outrage following the Grenfell tower fire, well if a drone downed a 747 or A380 that would be multiplied by 3 or 4 in potential deaths, let alone the fact this is a well documented risk.
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The problem is, if it's such a hot topic for the CAA then why aren't they acting quicker? They've been talking about licences and regulation for what, 18 months+, yet nothing has actually happened and regardless of some news outlets reporting 'near misses with heavy jets' - sorry, rolling out the same story every month - they're not exactly pushing through any type of regulation. Which makes you wonder if their legal team has advised to go slow whilst waiting for such an accident.......?

The thing is, the general public need educating on drones and the types of drones. Do you thInk good, honest and sensible people that have just spunked over £1000 on the latest 4K drone are the same people that are going to risk loosing it by crashing it into an airliner or having it confiscated and risk much heavier criminal charges for acting voyeristcally - I mean, some copper in a twin squirrel and a few hundred thousand pounds worth of camera gear has just been convicted for filming people having sex in their back yard so maybe we should be banning all flights over residential properties, y'know, just in case!

Nope, the people that are being nobs with their 'drones' is the £100 jobbies that disintegrate after 10 landings and have the video capabilites of a 1990's camera phone. Those are the type that the pilot coming into land won't even notice because they're like little mossies buzzing round rather than anything that can do any real damage - in fact, I bet a swan would do far more damage to an aircraft than a drone would do.

Having said all this, I hold a lapsed pilots license and my dad holds a commercial fixed wing and a helicopter licence and he also flys a drone. If you respect the rules and be mindful of others then there should be no problems but 'general public', 'video cameras' and 'drones' don't seem to mix well at present!!!!
 
Angelboy said:
The problem is, if it's such a hot topic for the CAA then why aren't they acting quicker? They've been talking about licences and regulation for what, 18 months+, yet nothing has actually happened and regardless of some news outlets reporting 'near misses with heavy jets' - sorry, rolling out the same story every month - they're not exactly pushing through any type of regulation. Which makes you wonder if their legal team has advised to go slow whilst waiting for such an accident.......?

The thing is, the general public need educating on drones and the types of drones. Do you thInk good, honest and sensible people that have just spunked over £1000 on the latest 4K drone are the same people that are going to risk loosing it by crashing it into an airliner or having it confiscated and risk much heavier criminal charges for acting voyeristcally - I mean, some copper in a twin squirrel and a few hundred thousand pounds worth of camera gear has just been convicted for filming people having sex in their back yard so maybe we should be banning all flights over residential properties, y'know, just in case!

Nope, the people that are being nobs with their 'drones' is the £100 jobbies that disintegrate after 10 landings and have the video capabilites of a 1990's camera phone. Those are the type that the pilot coming into land won't even notice because they're like little mossies buzzing round rather than anything that can do any real damage - in fact, I bet a swan would do far more damage to an aircraft than a drone would do.

Having said all this, I hold a lapsed pilots license and my dad holds a commercial fixed wing and a helicopter licence and he also flys a drone. If you respect the rules and be mindful of others then there should be no problems but 'general public', 'video cameras' and 'drones' don't seem to mix well at present!!!!
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I'm guessing you've not been involved with the CAA or indeed any governmental department. New regulations don't appear overnight, and I'd not expect anything for at least another 12 months.

I'm sure you don't actually believe anyone would want a crash to happen with possibly hundreds of fatalities to prove a point.

I agree that those who are in the know and responsible are not the problem. Unfortunately, as with most rules and regulations, they are aimed to deal with the lowest common denominator.
 
rick448 said:
I'm guessing you've not been involved with the CAA or indeed any governmental department. New regulations don't appear overnight, and I'd not expect anything for at least another 12 months.

I'm sure you don't actually believe anyone would want a crash to happen with possibly hundreds of fatalities to prove a point.

I agree that those who are in the know and responsible are not the problem. Unfortunately, as with most rules and regulations, they are aimed to deal with the lowest common denominator.
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Yes, I understand the Goliath of government and I've also had many dealings with the CAA when I was working in the aviation industry.

Of course I don't want to see an accident, it was a tounge in cheek comment.

Having had a look here https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...o-sit-safety-tests-under-new-government-rules the new idea that drones should be registered and operators take a some sort of safety test is spot on. Id expect any responsible drone operator would be happy to comply with this.

The thing that amazes me more about the use of drones as a tool to capture video content and the supposed hatred from the general public (or newspapers maybe) is that more and more TV show and movies are using them to capture epic overhead shots that would have previously been reserved for £1500/hr helicopters. So the general public are lapping up the content without fully being aware of how it was captured in the first place. I think in the medium term people will eventually accept drones because I think they're here to stay!
 
RandomlySet said:
Sorry, I didn't mean to get defensive. TBH, I thought more members on here would have been more understanding - after all, a drone is just another photography/videography tool.
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I'm not defending the other guy but you need to help yourself in your approach to people questioning your actions. Going off on the offensive helps nobody, photographers /videographers/drone users.

Sure there are a lot of cases when you're within your rights and people don't understand that but there comes a point where arguing with them isn't going to make them go away and let you carry on peacefully.
 
Used properly some of the images produced are brilliant. I've seen film footage used in a car shoot, similar to top gear tracking, just great amateur use. BUT all this needs practice.
The trouble is Uncle Bob with his drone flying in the back garden, or those flying near airfields etc is giving responsible users a bad name.

Oh and I'm always super polite when anyone approaches me angrily. Call them Sir or Madam. It diffuses things quickly
 
Angelboy said:
I don't own a drone, I'm waiting for my dad to get board with his DJI Phantom 3, but it always surprises my that people think that your filming them. Like what on earth makes them think they're so special that you'd want to film them in the first place - some random stranger doing f**k all but they get so uptight about it.

When I'm filming with the DSLR and it has the mic attached I've had several bizare exchanges from people telling me I'm not allowed to film yet if I whip out the iPhone no one bats an eye - yet I'm still filming just the same!!!!
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Exactly this!! Phonetoggers are the worst! I only fly my drone around the coast and to be honest have only had one issue with another person, at which point I reviewed the footage with her to prove that at no point was she identifiable, problem resolved.

The main issue is that all drone operators are treated the same as the assholes that fly near airports and judged before they've even had a chance to explain that they are aware of regulations etc.. everyone's a hero of aviation law at the moment...
 
I have a drone - a Mavic Pro - which I use only over my own land (it's a farm that's being used as a horse rescue charity and I'm producing films for publicity and fundraising) and, when used sensibly,I can't see why anyone can have a problem with drones.
They mustn't be used within 50m of buildings, animals or people, and at that distance the wideangle lens itself protects privacy. I suspect that the reason that there is an exclusion distance at all is that there is a very slight risk of the thing falling out of the sky and causing injury or damage, but "real" drones are very unlikely to do that, as they will automatically return to their take off point and land when the battery gets low.

Due to the size of the farm, I need to constantly return it to take off point and then use my legs to take it to another area, as I only fly it within site - possibly people who fly it when they can't see it could cause potential problems. It cost me over £1300 so I'm not going to risk flying it into trees etc that I can't see.
 
rick448 said:
It wasn't aimed at you, more of a general comment, but as you seem to be quick to go on the defensive and are clearly not able to understand, or probably care about others concerns, who may not be photographers, or drone users, I can easily see how you came into conflict.
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Actually I think it's the other way around. It's you and other people that seem to think drone pilots are spying on you when we are not. Most drones have small wide angle lenses so spying on you in your bedroom window from a distance is really not possible.

Sure, if somebody flys a drone right up to your window, shoot it out the sky. That pilots being a t***.
 
rick448 said:
As I said, it is a hot topic for the CAA, and as someone in the aviation industry, I fully understand why. The problem is that the potential consequences are so high that it needs acting upon. Look at the outrage following the Grenfell tower fire, well if a drone downed a 747 or A380 that would be multiplied by 3 or 4 in potential deaths, let alone the fact this is a well documented risk.
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The fact is that many of the reported drone near misses with aircraft turned out to not be drones.
Planes take birds strikes all the time, a drone is highly unlikely to down a 747 or A380.
DJI drones can't fly near airports, prisons, MOD.

Yes some drone pilots are prats just like some people speed and some drink and drive.

Do drones need more regulation? No I don't think so. We have regulations on the roads but it doesn't stop people speeding, drink driving or driving without licence or insurance.
 
ecoleman said:
Planes take birds strikes all the time, a drone is highly unlikely to down a 747 or A380.
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Unlike birdstrikes, which tend to be soft, mushy things when hit, drones contain far harder materials. Cranfield university have done extensive tests on this and whilst the low speed impact at takeoff and landing wouldn't damage the windscreen, other parts are more vulnerable. Birds tend to get blended into an engine, larger metal parts like motors etc, probably would cause damage to the fan blades.

Then there's the issue of the batteries. We already know when punctured they're a great source of fire.

So whilst the likelihood is small, murpheys law and statistics say that it'll probably happen at some time.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I have a drone - a Mavic Pro - which I use only over my own land (it's a farm that's being used as a horse rescue charity and I'm producing films for publicity and fundraising) and, when used sensibly,I can't see why anyone can have a problem with drones.
They mustn't be used within 50m of buildings, animals or people, and at that distance the wideangle lens itself protects privacy. I suspect that the reason that there is an exclusion distance at all is that there is a very slight risk of the thing falling out of the sky and causing injury or damage, but "real" drones are very unlikely to do that, as they will automatically return to their take off point and land when the battery gets low.

Due to the size of the farm, I need to constantly return it to take off point and then use my legs to take it to another area, as I only fly it within site - possibly people who fly it when they can't see it could cause potential problems. It cost me over £1300 so I'm not going to risk flying it into trees etc that I can't see.
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Hm, now with your expertise in lighting, I'd be expecting a flying lighting rig and a static camera :D Could be interesting at night - shades of the Canon advert.
 
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