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and help to keep the site free for all
About time too...
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Other law enforcement officers abroad carry guns, I find it out ours do not. It would help them deal with unrest so much more easily. Our cities are bear pits, they need these guns.
Garry Edwards
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Every single time that the Police Federation has carried out a member survey, the overwhelming response from their members is that they don't want to routinely carry guns.
And, as a member of the public who has followed news stories of (often) totally innocent members of the public being shot by the so-called highly trained police marksmen, I wouldn't be happy to see police officers routinely armed.
And maybe one of the reasons that only a tiny minority of criminals carry guns is that the police don't - in countries where the police are routinely armed, far more criminals are armed too, although I don't know which is the chicken, which is the egg or which led to the other...
And, as a member of the public who has followed news stories of (often) totally innocent members of the public being shot by the so-called highly trained police marksmen, I wouldn't be happy to see police officers routinely armed.
And maybe one of the reasons that only a tiny minority of criminals carry guns is that the police don't - in countries where the police are routinely armed, far more criminals are armed too, although I don't know which is the chicken, which is the egg or which led to the other...
Bernie174
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The article is misleading, if you don't read all of it.
This isn't anything new. DPG officers in London deal with non DPG incidents and are armed, same with armed officers at Heathrow.
Whats happening in Scotland does therefore make sense. It's simply the ARV crews having the gun strapped to them, rather than having them locked away in the boot, which was the case when armed response first started.
They are still Police and still have a responsibility for dealing with anything a Policeman should. Gone are they days when armed officers used to peddle the line they were armed so could not deal with run of the mill stuff.
No, it wouldn't, in fact in some ways it makes it harder. If you have to get all tangled up in a fight, then the officers has to keep much of his mind on the security of the weapon. Unarmed you don't have that concern.
If you aren't fighting with the yobs, it makes no real difference, they know they aren't in play to get shot.
I think you'll find it's far fewer than the number of members of the public shot by...members of the public! In fact the number is 33 people killed by Police since 1995. The vast majority of those there is no argument that they were shot perfectly lawfully. In the small number that remain, one is now sub judice, and the only others where there were proceedings resulted a finding of not guilty.
So please do tell what you base this 'unhappiness' on?
This isn't anything new. DPG officers in London deal with non DPG incidents and are armed, same with armed officers at Heathrow.
Whats happening in Scotland does therefore make sense. It's simply the ARV crews having the gun strapped to them, rather than having them locked away in the boot, which was the case when armed response first started.
They are still Police and still have a responsibility for dealing with anything a Policeman should. Gone are they days when armed officers used to peddle the line they were armed so could not deal with run of the mill stuff.
No, it wouldn't, in fact in some ways it makes it harder. If you have to get all tangled up in a fight, then the officers has to keep much of his mind on the security of the weapon. Unarmed you don't have that concern.
If you aren't fighting with the yobs, it makes no real difference, they know they aren't in play to get shot.
I think you'll find it's far fewer than the number of members of the public shot by...members of the public! In fact the number is 33 people killed by Police since 1995. The vast majority of those there is no argument that they were shot perfectly lawfully. In the small number that remain, one is now sub judice, and the only others where there were proceedings resulted a finding of not guilty.
So please do tell what you base this 'unhappiness' on?
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If you have to take public transport late at night (after 9pm) up here, you contend with drunks, rowdy blokes, neds, all of which have the real potential to pose you danger. It's not uncommon for violence to happen in the cities/trains/buses.
Its why I welcome these armed policemen with open arms to our streets, they will give a real obvious deterent. I'd love to see them ride the trains too, one per carriage. It would stop the rowdiness and unpleasantness. I'd love with if you could post without satire and sarcasm, but I will not hold my breath
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akr
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Not sure where you live. In London, where I've lived all my life, you can get by generally, and armed officers on each carriage is not really practical on the tube or trains unless we all want to pay a lot more tax. That said, I doubt an armed officer v non-armed would make much difference so someone drunk, or generally rowdy. As Garry mentions they know they won't get shot, so it won't affect them.
Personally I don't want to see armed officers on the streets, other than when needed for exceptional occasions.
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Glasgow. It's a riot on the trains with intoxicated drunks, yobs etc. I welcome this move and cannot wait to see more armed officers. Of course what I want isn't practical, but in an ideal world it would be epic.
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I do...
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I'm reminded of this story...
A wise man was sitting at the gate of a large city. A traveller approached him and asked, “Sir, I’m new here. Could you tell me the kind of people that live in this city?”
After pondering, the wise man asked in return, “And what were the people like where you came from?”
The man replied, “They were unfriendly and mean-spirited.”
The wise man responded, “That’s what they’re like here, too.”
Not long thereafter another traveller approached the city and asked the wise man again the kind of people that lived within the city. “What were the people like in the city that you’ve come from?”
The traveller replied, “Friendly, good-hearted, willing to help their neighbour,” to which the wise man responded, “And that is what they are like here, too.”
A wise man was sitting at the gate of a large city. A traveller approached him and asked, “Sir, I’m new here. Could you tell me the kind of people that live in this city?”
After pondering, the wise man asked in return, “And what were the people like where you came from?”
The man replied, “They were unfriendly and mean-spirited.”
The wise man responded, “That’s what they’re like here, too.”
Not long thereafter another traveller approached the city and asked the wise man again the kind of people that lived within the city. “What were the people like in the city that you’ve come from?”
The traveller replied, “Friendly, good-hearted, willing to help their neighbour,” to which the wise man responded, “And that is what they are like here, too.”
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Some knife yield and kick peoples faces in. Armed police will help instil a sense of public order. I think it's great.
CaveDweller
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neil_g
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maybe just drop a few grenades randomly off the bridges?
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It's a nasty city. My biggest shame was not intervening when I saw six guys kicking someone in at 830pm on the padestrianised part of suchiehall street. It's a terrible place at night
CaveDweller
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Number plate recognition gun turrets and instead of spike strips use cheese wire
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They are. Leeds, Newcastle, Glasgow I've sampled on Saturday nights. The rowdiness and drunkeness which trims violent is appalling. Armed police will set the tone and give people a second thought when they attack police officers arresting their mate. Can't wait to see more of this armed police
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Bottle yeilding, syringe yielding, knife yielding. It happens all the time
seriousrikk
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Think it through.
A gun is only a threat if there is a likelihood of use. In the situations you describe, there isn't.
Plus read all the thread. This is not a new initiative, it is just standard armed response units carrying while going about normal policing.
Nothing new here.
A gun is only a threat if there is a likelihood of use. In the situations you describe, there isn't.
Plus read all the thread. This is not a new initiative, it is just standard armed response units carrying while going about normal policing.
Nothing new here.
PaulF
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The choice of a 'junior' hacksaw is interesting, surely a whopping great big saw would have been betterI actually agree with you here.
I'm off to poke red hot knitting needles in my eyes and cut me genitals off with a rusty junior hacksaw.
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Guns work for me.
Bernie174
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I have to tell you that any of those 3 have been common Thursdays (when people were paid in cash on Thursdays!), Fridays and Saturday nights in many parts of good old London Town.
Armed Police were like Cabbies, "South of the river? Sorry mate, I'd melt, or be dissolved or sumfick", so it was down to Plod and Mr Wood to sort out.
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The choice of a 'junior' hacksaw is interesting, surely a whopping great big saw would have been better
No, because I have an extremely small penis a junior hacksaw will suffice
Garry Edwards
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With the greatest possible respect, the law in this country protects the police (or anyone else) from prosecution as long as the person using the force believed, at the time, that it was reasonable and necessary. Therefore, when a police officer shoots an innocent member of the public (or a criminal who doesn't in fact present a real danger) the police officer is still acting lawfully as long as s/he can come up with a good explanation of his/her actions, whether true or not.
Yes, there is one case that is sub judice - but how long ago did that incident take place - 8 years or was it 9? why have we only now got to the point where a police officer may finally be tried as a result of of what many people consider to be the use of nothing more than gratuituous violence? The answer to that one, and to several others, is that police officers, police forces and the so called IPCC refuse to co-operate and withhold evidence from Coroners, with the result that, in several cases, an inquest cannot be held. Why do they do that? Why are they allowed to do that?
Personally, I'm unhappy with the idea of even more police officers walking around with guns because I believe that the safety standard is nothing short of appalling. My personal experience is limited to just 3 force areas, it is of course possible that all of the armed officers in the other 40 forces may be much better trained.
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Lets just say I go down the Yoker line daily, and its not nice and there have been stabbings on this route. This is an appalling city with an appalling problem of drunken and/or drug fueled violence and robbery. Some one even tried to get my gear off me in Patrick station at 830pm (and Partick is a nice bit), you know the sort, sucked in face, pasty faced, tracksuit - rough looking. A ned.
Anyway, why is this thread about me. Its about the pro's and cons of our police being armed. I can see very few cons. Abroad police are armed. It works well.
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gramps
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Have his gun nicked in the scuffle?
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Quite likely. I have no idea about the statistics relating to guns (obviously from other countries) but it has been stated that if you carry a knife for self defence, you are more likely to have it used against you than use it yourself.
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To be fair he did say it was Glasgow...
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