About time I asked........

[Cobra]

........Another daft question
I will try and put this across, I know what I mean and I hope someone else will too...
I have a 400D which as you know has a 1.6x sensor so I put a 200mm lens and get a focal length of 320mm or there abouts
that all seems reasonable enough.
So what is the advantage of a full frame sensor camera?
( ignoring the build quality at this time)
hypothetically I spend a lot of money on a full frame and loose 120 odd mm off the focal length, off my lenses.........:shrug:
Ta

 

[RobertP]

I think they are made for us oldies that think they know what 50mm should look like

Bigger sensor = lower noise and higher dynamic range as the pixels are bigger. Big bright view finder and generally just seems right

Might be more technical reasons but I'm loving the 5D just for doing what a slr should do!

 

[CT]

It depends what you want to do. With long lenses and full frame, you just end up cropping more- that would be my major problem with bird shots.

With landscape, portrait, wedding shots or anything where you can really fill the frame, then the advantage with full frame is very real - very high quality images. :shrug:

 

[Cobra]

Might be more technical reasons but I'm loving the 5D just for doing what a slr should do!

Thanks Robert, un-technical is always good for me

It depends what you want to do. With long lenses and full frame, you just end up cropping more- that would be my major problem with bird shots.

With landscape, portrait, wedding shots or anything where you can really fill the frame, then the advantage with full frame is very real - very high quality images. :shrug:

Ah thats a little clear, thanks CT. So to cover a whole range of subjects, idealy a full frame and a crop sensor DSLR would be good

 

[digitalfailure]

Full frame means that the 17mm lens really is a 17mm and not a 27.2 mm lens

 

[Canon Bob]

[COLOR="Bluehypothetically I spend a lot of money on a full frame and loose 120 odd mm off the focal length, off my lenses.........:shrug:
Ta[/COLOR]

Your lenses are the same focal length whatever the size of the sensor. It is only the appearance of the image that changes. You are "cropping" the FOV not increasing the focal length.
If you were to compare 10Mp full frame to a 10Mp crop sensor then clearly you'd have more pixels in your image (the featured point of your image, that is) for the crop sensor camera when using the same f/l lens. The pixels would be smaller and closer and therefore theoretically noisier.
The question you need to be asking is....
Does having 1.6x more pixels of a smaller size and more densely packed give better or worse image quality.

I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that one !

Bob

 

[Skypilot]

Canon Bob - You are "cropping" the FOV not increasing the focal length.

Good point.

Quite a good explanation - with pictures Here

 

[Gandhi]

it also means that perspective in the image corresponds with the focal length correctly.

I was thinking about this the other day. to get 50mm on a crop body you need to use a 35mm lens (ish) However, as it's a fov crop you're still going to get the slightly more spaced out perspective that you start to get as lenses get wider. Not the same depth as you'd get with a proper 50mm.


For me, full frame is going to be so much better as most of my stuff is at the wide end, so lenses aren't going to be struggling with being ultra wide. My 10-20mm will be obsolete as I can use a 17-whatever and get a proper w/a fov and image quality!

 

[Cobra]

Good point.

Quite a good explanation - with pictures Here

Thanks for the Info everyone!
An explanation with pictures is always good thanks
I am still struggling a little with this but its seems to be coming clearer

 

[Cobra]

Your lenses are the same focal length whatever the size of the sensor. It is only the appearance of the image that changes. You are "cropping" the FOV not increasing the focal length............

.........The question you need to be asking is....
Does having 1.6x more pixels of a smaller size and more densely packed give better or worse image quality.

I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that one !

Bob

Thanks Bob I wish I had the answer too

 

[CT]

The new IDSMK3 just might put a new slant on the whole thing with 21 million pixels.

This sample shot started out as a 63mb image cropped in half and then in half again, to around 17mb. Then interpolated up to around 60mb -well over stock library minimum size.

 

[Cobra]

Oh WOW! not that I am about to rush out and buy a new camera just yet though

 

[CT]

It'll be a snip at £6K.

 

[Canon Bob]

Thanks Bob I wish I had the answer too

Sadly, due to an involuntary twitch of my index finger whilst holding the mouse, I should be able to answer this one in a day or two.

I'll report back when the beast arrives (5D) and the swelling has gone down (impact with rolling pin)

Bob

 

[apodo]

So what is the advantage of a full frame sensor camera?
( ignoring the build quality at this time)
hypothetically I spend a lot of money on a full frame and loose 120 odd mm off the focal length, off my lenses

6mm on a compact digital camera is
22mm on a Canon APS-C DSLR is
36mm on a 35mm frame camera is
58mm on a 645 medium format camera is
84mm on a 6x9cm medium format camera is
127mm on a 4x5in large format camera

The point being the larger the format the higher the quality of image produced. It is not so simple as the amount of magnification you get for a given focal length or we would all having weeny compact-sized sensors.

Also in creative terms, the larger the format the more shallow the depth of field you can get for the same angle of view and the same aperture.

With a larger format you can always stop down if you want more DoF, but there is nothing you can do if you want less other than hope there are (much more expensive) lenses available with a large aperture.

They also allow you to go much wider with less perspective distortion because you do not need such a small focal length. This is why compact cameras are not as good at supporting even conventional wide angle with many stopping at 36mm (as a 35mm equivalent angle of view).

Obviously the difference between APS-C and 35mm is not so great as that between a compact digital sensor and large format, but the it is the same concept just on a lesser scale.

To some extent though I think 35mm is held up too much as something more than just one of many different standards. The only reason everything is referred to in 35mm terms is simply because that is what most people are used to and because most DSLRs share the same lens systems as 35mm film cameras.

If an APS-C sized sensor delivers what you need then that is all that matters, worry now and you can just as easily go to 35mm frame and then instead start worrying about whether you would be better with medium format.

it also means that perspective in the image corresponds with the focal length correctly.

There is nothing more correct about it, it is simply more conventional to people familiar with 35mm photography.

Michael.

 

[Cobra]

Sadly, due to an involuntary twitch of my index finger whilst holding the mouse, I should be able to answer this one in a day or two.

I'll report back when the beast arrives (5D) and the swelling has gone down (impact with rolling pin)

Bob

OUCH!
When the concussion wears off I will be interested to read of your expliots, Bob

[QUOTE)...........The point being the larger the format the higher the quality of image produced. It is not so simple as the amount of magnification you get for a given focal length or we would all having weeny compact-sized sensors.[/QUOTE]

Very comprehensive thanks Michael

 

[Bob]

Cobra ,Bob didnt say where the rolling pin landed If it were me my misses would make sure I still had tears in my eyes every time Iwent to use my camera

Bob:lol

 

[Canon Bob]

Cobra ,Bob didnt say where the rolling pin landed If it were me my misses would make sure I still had tears in my eyes every time Iwent to use my camera

Bob:lol

The tears are not from the initial impact, it's where she decided to deposit the rolling pin afterwards

Bob

 

[tuttonp]

Sadly, due to an involuntary twitch of my index finger whilst holding the mouse, I should be able to answer this one in a day or two.

I'll report back when the beast arrives (5D) and the swelling has gone down (impact with rolling pin)

Bob

Bob
Can I just say thank you for saving me about £1200 and the bruises that would have gone with it!!.

 

[Canon Bob]

Bob
Can I just say thank you for saving me about £1200 and the bruises that would have gone with it!!.

You owe me one....in fact quite a few people around here must owe me one.

I'll count on you doing the honours if an EF600 f4 appears.

Bob