A9 SPECs cameras turn on

Can you save us all some effort by telling us what the link is about?
 
I'm amazed at the amount of drivers who DON'T understand the word AVERAGE.

The amount I see blasting past and then slowing down to the limit going past SPECS is amazing.
 
neil_g said:
im assuming by the thread title that SPECs speed cameras on the A9 have been installed?
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Either that or it's something to do with a new Sony camera ;)

It's just me being grumpy at the number of threads that are just a link to the BBC. 2 lines of explanation or even comment would be cool :)
 
I have someone investigating the times for passing these cameras as we speak;) obviously there will be a bit of leeway and it will be different for different vehicle classes. It's handy having a friend who's a policewoman but I don't know if she'll be able to find anything out though. It will be handy if she does because my daily commute to work consists of 30miles on the A9 to Inverness in heavy HGV time :(

To me the cameras are just a big waste of time. People will always drive like dicks and it's not the A9 that's the problem.
 
mattyg said:
I'm amazed at the amount of drivers who DON'T understand the word AVERAGE.

The amount I see blasting past and then slowing down to the limit going past SPECS is amazing.
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Yes, that happens and also some drivers suddenly become aware that they have been speeding in a measured section of road then slow to a crawl before reaching the exit camera so as to get their average speed down.

Edit ............ my statement looks like it is wrong. It would appear that the cameras used are SPECS3 and that they measure compliance throughout each measured section (some detail here http://www.vysionics.com/services/permanent-specs)
The system also has the capability to accept the use of additional portable cameras.

Don't speed - nowt to worry about.
 
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Terrible news indeed. Luckily I hardly ever go that way. f*****g M8 is bad enough and invariably gets avoided every morning. Local government must be really bankrupt to unleash such draconian measures. Maybe just go for 20 plenty straight away!
 
You may be surprised to hear this. It's not a bad idea. There will be the odd one silly enough to speed with these about, but what they will ensure is near complete compliance with the speed limit - which as far as I can tell is the sole aim of the Scottish government.

However, there are a lot of sections of that road, that are not DCW and people attempt some pretty looney tunes overtakes on it to try pass dawdling lorries. It might well cut those back as they'll be scared to go over the set average speed. I've driven up and down it many times, and some of the overtaking manouvers done on that road are suicidal IMHO and if this measure cuts it back. Great. Before, there were seldom car drivers obeying the law on that road and driving well above 60mph then catching up with lorries and doing really quite bad overtaking manouvers.

The long term solution needs to be additional crawler lanes to allow traffic to pass the lorries, and more DCW sections. Inverness to Perth is a little over 100 miles. If it were a 70 most of the way, you'd get that journey time down to 90mins or so. Thats plenty fast
 
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time to invest in a car with cruise control if you live in a average camera area
 
the black fox said:
time to invest in a car with cruise control if you live in a average camera area
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Or....you know....just take note of the signage and cameras, and drive accordingly. ;)
 
the black fox said:
time to invest in a car with cruise control if you live in a average camera area
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Most have it. It's not too difficult to adhere to the speed limit. Yes you might stray 1-2mph above it every now and then, but you won't be done. The system will have some tolerance. It's not a bad idea this. You are not meant to speed, this will completely deter ANY ambitions of people speeding. It will be interesting to see how this corresponds to the number of KSI incidents on the A9.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I generally stick cruise control on when I'm going through roadworks with a 50 limit. It's one less thing to worry about while I check Facebook.
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...and drinking coffee.
 
ST4 said:
You may be surprised to hear this. It's not a bad idea. There will be the odd one silly enough to speed with these about, but what they will ensure is near complete compliance with the speed limit - which as far as I can tell is the sole aim of the Scottish government.

However, there are a lot of sections of that road, that are not DCW and people attempt some pretty looney tunes overtakes on it to try pass dawdling lorries. It might well cut those back as they'll be scared to go over the set average speed. I've driven up and down it many times, and some of the overtaking manouvers done on that road are suicidal IMHO and if this measure cuts it back. Great. Before, there were seldom car drivers obeying the law on that road and driving well above 60mph then catching up with lorries and doing really quite bad overtaking manouvers.

The long term solution needs to be additional crawler lanes to allow traffic to pass the lorries, and more DCW sections. Inverness to Perth is a little over 100 miles. If it were a 70 most of the way, you'd get that journey time down to 90mins or so. Thats plenty fast
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Maybe, however in practice the traffic will crawl at 38mph and people will be terrified to overtake even in very good clear stretch. There should be some measures to deter 20 plenty pensioner loonies from hogging our single carriageway roads. They are the ones that effectively cause mad and dangerous overtakes.
 
daugirdas said:
Maybe, however in practice the traffic will crawl at 38mph and people will be terrified to overtake even in very good clear stretch. There should be some measures to deter 20 plenty pensioner loonies from hogging our single carriageway roads. They are the ones that effectively cause mad and dangerous overtakes.
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I'd like to think the public won't be stupid enough not to overtake something do 38mph in a 60 limit just because of a specs camera. If you've travelled the A77 they are not the menace people see them as unless you are intent on breaking the speed limit.
 
Why is it suddenly safe to let HGVs do 50? So now if you DO want to pass a truck you have to crawl past with only a 10mph speed difference spending a lot longer on the "wrong" side of the road.
Also, is it just me being cynical having them go live just when the tourist season is stopping which will make the accident stats look a lot better because the road's quieter?
 
DavieW said:
Why is it suddenly safe to let HGVs do 50? So now if you DO want to pass a truck you have to crawl past with only a 10mph speed difference spending a lot longer on the "wrong" side of the road.
Also, is it just me being cynical having them go live just when the tourist season is stopping which will make the accident stats look a lot better because the road's quieter?
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Why not just drive at 50 until the nearest DCW and overtake there. The road has plenty of DCW sections that are not awfully far apart to overtake on. You still have the option of breaking the law and exceeding the speed limit to pass safely of course, and so long as your speed avergages 60 or less between points, you won't be done. Although, if you have the break the limit to pass safely, is the maneuver really that safe?

We need to see how this pans out over several years to see whether they are effective. It will stop speeding and the bulk of questionable overtakes you do see on the road. Lets see if this measure will work first.
 
neil_g said:
i have cruise control. its called my right foot ;)
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I come across plenty with that form of cruise control, come to a hill. or even a moderate incline and it's surprising how much speed they lose because their "cruise control" doesn't work.
 
nightmare, I'm on that road everyweek, often early in the morning with little or no traffic on it. They should be looking at how to increase the speed of that road, not choke it.
 
ST4 said:
Why not just drive at 50 until the nearest DCW and overtake there. The road has plenty of DCW sections that are not awfully far apart to overtake on. You still have the option of breaking the law and exceeding the speed limit to pass safely of course, and so long as your speed avergages 60 or less between points, you won't be done. Although, if you have the break the limit to pass safely, is the maneuver really that safe?

We need to see how this pans out over several years to see whether they are effective. It will stop speeding and the bulk of questionable overtakes you do see on the road. Lets see if this measure will work first.
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It sounds like you've never driven there or have taken up the 20 plenty dogma :) Yes you can drive at 40 or 50, then blast past a few slow drivers and in a less than half a mile you will be again stuck behind another one.

Driving on speed managed motorways is a nightmare. People are watching their speedos more than road, there are so many hogs and it is just an awful experience. You become more afraid of points than massive collision.
 
It'll cause grief for a few weeks and then those who regularly use it will become accustomed to it and just get on with driving it.
For a few years I drove a speed limited van, annoyed the hell out of me at first but when I saw that it didn't really make the trip times longer I began to learn patience and now stick pretty much to 50 even though the van can go much faster. The cameras on the A9 will do the same for everyone, they certainly won't make people act like idiots, anyone who does will have done that anyway.
 
DavieW said:
Why is it suddenly safe to let HGVs do 50? So now if you DO want to pass a truck you have to crawl past with only a 10mph speed difference spending a lot longer on the "wrong" side of the road.
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It'll be good if it actually slows most of them down to 50 as the last few times I've been on the A9 I've been getting tailgated at an indicated 60 on my speedo. I stand to be corrected on this, but I've never heard of any lorry drivers getting done by the camera vans for exceeding 40, and I'm now wondering if these fabby new cameras actually pick up the fact that it is a lorry doing 60 and therefore exceeding the new limit by 20%? :thinking:
 
All the discussions so far are regarding the A9 from Perth to Inverness. What about the A9 south of Perth to Stirling which is all dual carriageway yet has cameras installed? That's not a road that has a bad record for accidents so looks more like a money making scheme.
 
daugirdas said:
It sounds like you've never driven there or have taken up the 20 plenty dogma :) Yes you can drive at 40 or 50, then blast past a few slow drivers and in a less than half a mile you will be again stuck behind another one.

Driving on speed managed motorways is a nightmare. People are watching their speedos more than road, there are so many hogs and it is just an awful experience. You become more afraid of points than massive collision.
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I've probably driven on more managed motorways, and SPECs zones than you given the annual milage I cover(ed). I know the A9 extremely well and have driven it many many times. This will not be an issue. Managed motorways like the M25 and M42 are very different as the speed limit changes regularly, but it is easy, look at the signs with red circles round numbers, don't go faster than that. Other than at Ballinluig junction, its all NSL single carriage way and NSL DCW. There are not too many speed limit changes. Give it a try. Drive up it and see if you lose your licence.
 
DavieW said:
All the discussions so far are regarding the A9 from Perth to Inverness. What about the A9 south of Perth to Stirling which is all dual carriageway yet has cameras installed? That's not a road that has a bad record for accidents so looks more like a money making scheme.
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You mean Perth to Dunblane, its the M9 from Dunblane to Stirling. The cameras will operate on the A9 from Dunblane. It is not a money making scheme, unlike hidden gatso's, camera vans operated by dibble on overtime, or dibble in unmarked cars, the SPECs cameras are a) clearly visible b) clearly signed to ensure you are not going to speed. Only a complete and utter f**ktard will speed in an average speed camera zone.

There are a few bad junctions along that, at Glen Eagles and further up at Auchterarder I've heard of a few offs. They've however put Gatso's there to mitigate.

I don't see why the TP membership would have such an issue about these cameras. Hardly any of you speed, and hardly any of you condone speeding from what I've read, so surely something that makes other drivers do the same has to be a good thing.
 
mattyg said:
I'm amazed at the amount of drivers who DON'T understand the word AVERAGE.

The amount I see blasting past and then slowing down to the limit going past SPECS is amazing.
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Yeah it always makes me laugh when I see the red brake lights on the cars in front when their passing the SPECS.
DavieW said:
All the discussions so far are regarding the A9 from Perth to Inverness. What about the A9 south of Perth to Stirling which is all dual carriageway yet has cameras installed? That's not a road that has a bad record for accidents so looks more like a money making scheme.
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And yet A9 from Perth to inverness is known as the killer A9 because of the fatalities on that stretch.

Edit sorry just seen the Perth to Sterling bit, but there are fatalities on that stretch too.
 
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jakeblu said:
And yet A9 from Perth to inverness is known as the killer A9 because of the fatalities on that stretch.
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Which is why, short of major improvements to the road which are needed (as are to the A1 between Dunbar and Newcastle upon Tyne) they've put in SPECs to see if reducing the speed of traffic (or rather reducing it to the legal maximum) will have an effect on road safety. It it does, great. if not, then they might have to think differently.
 
ST4 said:
I've probably driven on more managed motorways, and SPECs zones than you given the annual milage I cover(ed). I know the A9 extremely well and have driven it many many times. This will not be an issue. Managed motorways like the M25 and M42 are very different as the speed limit changes regularly, but it is easy, look at the signs with red circles round numbers, don't go faster than that. Other than at Ballinluig junction, its all NSL single carriage way and NSL DCW. There are not too many speed limit changes. Give it a try. Drive up it and see if you lose your licence.
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I don't get any thrill going past dibble or SPECs. I've been there a few times, it is awful road littered with slow caravans, lorries and fossils. NSL is just a far cry wish down there. I doubt I'll be back as even the scenery is not that special.

I am also going to bet that it won't stop too many dangerous overtakes, because some Yobus chavus fauna can't grasp the concept of average speed camera. They'll just do it further away from yellow posts and it doesn't matter if they get points later on. In fact you can overtake, then slow down to 30 then speed up again and avoid getting booked (I doubt they are that clever though).

P.S. What happened to your theory of relaxing driving laws?
 
It's my local road.

I can't remember the exact figure but (due to being stuck behind lorries and tractors etc) the average speed between Perth and Inverness was published recently as being only about 50 mph.

The cameras are now switched on making sure we don't average more than 60mph

Seems it will still be a case of 80mph for a while, 100mph risky overtaking then back to 30mph for next 20 mins or so.
 
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daugirdas said:
I don't get any thrill going past dibble or SPECs. I've been there a few times, it is awful road littered with slow caravans, lorries and fossils. NSL is just a far cry wish down there. I doubt I'll be back as even the scenery is not that special.

I am also going to bet that it won't stop too many dangerous overtakes, because some Yobus chavus fauna can't grasp the concept of average speed camera. They'll just do it further away from yellow posts and it doesn't matter if they get points later on. In fact you can overtake, then slow down to 30 then speed up again and avoid getting booked (I doubt they are that clever though).

P.S. What happened to your theory of relaxing driving laws?
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dinners said:
It's my local road.

I can't remember the exact figure but (due to being stuck behind lorries and tractors etc) the average speed between Perth and Inverness was published recently as being only about 50 mph.

The cameras are now switched on making sure we don't average more than 60mph

Seems it will still be a case of 80mph for a while, 100mph risky overtaking then back to 30mph for next 20 mins or so.
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They won't. People aren't that clever. They'll just not speed through it. Frequently I've covered vast distances on that road and seen some dreadful overtakes on it due to peoples inability to work out that speed = distance divided by time and that really, its not over 15mins to any dcw section to get past the HGV thats inevitibly holding you up. The increase to 50mph for them will ease that pressure as opposed to being held up at 40, you'll be held up at 50, and if you blast past 1 or 2 in your zone, you may push your speed above 60 and get done. People aren't pocket calculators and will err on the side of caution and not do such bad manouvers.

It's not a road that carries many yobs. Vast tracks of it go through the middle of nowhere, by Dunkeld there are no Perth Yobs and by Aviemore all the Inverness yobs are no where to be seen.

Anyway, I suspect, the real reason behind this is to cut speeding, and see if that saves lives. If it does, great. If not, err, they'll need to improve the road. I for one have never understood how so many come off that road, but there you go. I am all for relaxed driving laws, which this is, the HGV's get to go 10mph faster. Whats not to like.

Dinners, an average speed of 50mph actually isn't that bad. Its a 2hr run. I am sure that beats the train. And the scenery is ok, its a nice run.
 
How do the fines work - if there is a stretch of say 10 miles with 5 cameras and you do 90 from end to end is that 1 fine or 5 (thinking 1 as surely you can't be hit 5 times for 1 offence)?
 
HGVs doing 40mph on a single carriageway road out in the countryside?

That's certainly new to me!
 
Used to see Tesco lorries doing 40 up the A9 overnight but rarely see hgvs going that slowly in daytime, as others have said they are more likely to be doing 50+
 
the cameras on the a1 in Northumberland can distinguish vehicle size, so assume these can as well.
 
ST4 said:
They won't. People aren't that clever. They'll just not speed through it. Frequently I've covered vast distances on that road and seen some dreadful overtakes on it due to peoples inability to work out that speed = distance divided by time and that really, its not over 15mins to any dcw section to get past the HGV thats inevitibly holding you up. The increase to 50mph for them will ease that pressure as opposed to being held up at 40, you'll be held up at 50, and if you blast past 1 or 2 in your zone, you may push your speed above 60 and get done. People aren't pocket calculators and will err on the side of caution and not do such bad manouvers.

It's not a road that carries many yobs. Vast tracks of it go through the middle of nowhere, by Dunkeld there are no Perth Yobs and by Aviemore all the Inverness yobs are no where to be seen.

Anyway, I suspect, the real reason behind this is to cut speeding, and see if that saves lives. If it does, great. If not, err, they'll need to improve the road. I for one have never understood how so many come off that road, but there you go. I am all for relaxed driving laws, which this is, the HGV's get to go 10mph faster. Whats not to like.

Dinners, an average speed of 50mph actually isn't that bad. Its a 2hr run. I am sure that beats the train. And the scenery is ok, its a nice run.
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I will tell you precisely what SPECs will do:
1. Aunt Dorris will still drive at 38mph
2. The new Corsa with green square sticker on the back will hardly hit 50mph
3. The caravans will still be slow as elsewhere
4. lorries will speed up to, but no more than 50
5. Many cars have wildly inaccurate speedos. Mine does maybe 54-56mph instead of 60. Guess if I'll take the risk pushing the speedo up to 65 through SPECs. {The correct answer is a NO.} There were are - 55 is the max realistic speed.
6. People will be vague and slow in DCW sections, with many failing to overtake all slow traffic

Now the main one.

7. At the end of DCW you get to see some real brilliant manoeuvres through the painted white middle section. It will almost certainly get worse and that is where most of the real dangerous s*** happens.

A9 is hardly relevant to me, but they will infest other roads following "successful" pilot scheme. They need to get stopped.

They should just widen the road. If DCW can't be done at least they could do 3 lanes where middle one is shared. It can work and it does in many places.
 
How do the fines work - if there is a stretch of say 10 miles with 5 cameras and you do 90 from end to end is that 1 fine or 5 (thinking 1 as surely you can't be hit 5 times for 1 offence)?
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From today's Inverness Courier - Q&A with Transport Scotland

1) Average speeds are taken between 2 cameras and any driver caught over the limit faces a fine and penalty points. (there are 27 camera locations listed)

2) Yes it is possible to commit more than one offence during a single journey along the A9

3) It is at the discretion of the Lord Advocate to decide how much over the limit constitutes an offence
 
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