A very sad story..............

CT said:
I can't understand some of the logic going on here. If he'd killed four children of another family, which he could just as easily have done, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this soul searching. He's killed four of his children due to his own stupidity, and he has to live with that, but all of us who drive vehicles on the road every day have a responsibility for the roadworthiness of them. It could have been your family he killed or mine. I'm not seeing any pressing reasons as to why he shouldn't face whatever sentence the court imposes. I'm sure all the circumstances were taken into consideration.
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NorthernNikon said:
I wholeheartedly agree. I doubt people would have been so sympathetic if the children had died of neglect or abuse, and yet failing to ensure the safety of children in your care is exactly that, neglect and abuse.
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KayJay said:
Sending him to prison shows other people that if you're stupid enough to build a car from 4 seperate vehicles, and do the modifications yourself, some of which were down right stupid, then you should think again before taking your children for a drive in it.

A fair punishment in my opinion.
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Having followed the whole thing since the day it happened, I agree with all of the above. Plus if you do a bit of a search about the tragedy, you will find some very interesting reading. Then of course there are reports of the trial, detailing actual events from that night/day. They leave me with no doubt he should have gone to prison, and for longer than he has IMO ... that is until I think it over some more, and I start to think like like Marcel below:

Marcel said:
I'm not sympathetic per se. He did a stupid thing and does deserve to be punished for that.

However, if it was my children or someone elses children then I would say yes, imprisonment is a fair punishment.
However, he has lost four of his own children, and that, I think...is punishment enough.

Infact, why do we as a society send people to prison?
Is it for punishment, or is it to protect society until they reform?
Well if it's for punishment then surely he has been punished enough by his actions?
If it is for reform, do you think he will be so cavalier about car modifications in future? Do you not think that being responsible for the deaths of four of his own children will have had the desired effect on him to reform?

That's why I don't understand why he should be sent to prison....who benefits from him being imprisoned?
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I hope I never have to serve on a jury, as I would never be able to decide, and it would haunt me forever having to do a trial like this one :shake:
 
Jo said:
I hope I never have to serve on a jury, as I would never be able to decide, and it would haunt me forever having to do a trial like this one :shake:
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I also hope I never have to serve on a jury (but if the call comes, then so be it), but as jurors we would be there to weigh the evidence and decide innocence or guilt. The sentencing isn't up to us; nor is administering rough justice; but we can campaign and vote for change.
 
He chose to make alterations to his car.He chose to put different sized calipers on his car.
He chose to take his children in the car knowing about the amendments to the car.
He is responsible for the car, and he is responsible for the children.
I cannot imagine the pain of losing four children.
I would think the fact it is a prison sentence is because it went to trial, as he had pleaded not guilty.
Perhaps he has to accept it was his fault.
 
Jo said:
Having followed the whole thing since the day it happened, I agree with all of the above. Plus if you do a bit of a search about the tragedy, you will find some very interesting reading. Then of course there are reports of the trial, detailing actual events from that night/day. They leave me with no doubt he should have gone to prison, and for longer than he has IMO ... that is until I think it over some more, and I start to think like like Marcel below:
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Similar to me. My initial thoughts were - what an idiotic man. I know a thing or two about motors and about off roading (Having done a reasonable amount in years past) and I know that is is perfectly possible to make an off road vehicle that is also safe at road & motorway speeds.
The off road community are also pretty damn helpful in this respect - to the point of telling you when you have been a clot and made your landy unsafe.
I know what it feels like to take a difficult part off the car only to realise the new one is a different size - only it does not take a rocket scientist to decide to simply refit the old part and get the correct part. Or take the vehicle out of service until you have the new part.
His incompetence coupled with his over confidence is what put him where he is now. I thought he deserved to be in prison when I first read it. But I couldn't help thinking how will prison benefit anyone. I know the law is the law and I don't think he has 'paid enough' as it is (I'm a heartless b'stud) but I really cannot see what prison will achieve.

turnip said:
I would think the fact it is a prison sentence is because it went to trial, as he had pleaded not guilty.
Perhaps he has to accept it was his fault.
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You make a very good point here.
I wonder how the outcome would have been if he went into the court room with a 'I really really screwed up, my life is now a mess and it is all my fault' kind of attitude. We don't know the man, maybe the judge feel remorse in the courtroom that day. Who knows. :thinking:
 
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He is guilty, wether through stupidity or negligence is not something I feel qualified to judge myself. Having been found guilty, the judge would have had no option but a custodial sentence though I suspect that time served will only be a very small part of his punishment, he'll be punishing himself for the rest of his life. I hope that when he comes out, if he decides to come back we'll all have the good grace to allow him to do so with a clean slate.
 
hypnotic said:
I cannot see the justification of a prison sentence in this case ... :thumbsdown:

What purpose will it serve?
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I agree, but his wife seems to insinuate that she doesn't think the sentence is long enough. I guess they're not calling it an accident because of the state of the vehicle, but whatever the state of the vehicle, I don't see how they arrive at the conclusion it is worth of a prison sentence. There was clearly no malicious intent in this, so I think quite frankly, the weight of the guilt on his conscience is more than enough. That said, I don't suppose the prison sentence is what he is upset about...

On a more general note, I can think of many others that get let off that I would like to see put in prison. I don't see how this guy gets two years, and the people responsible for this get the same sentence...
 
hypnotic said:
I cannot see the justification of a prison sentence in this case ... :thumbsdown:

What purpose will it serve?
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As I said, I don't think the judge would have had an option, but for what it's worth I think the sentence was very light, it could have been much longer.
 
fabs said:
I have to agree with the prison sayers. The man went to prison because his negligence and stupidity caused deaths. It shouldn't matter who those people were, whether they were adults or children, his children or other peoples' children. And that is probably how the judge will have looked at it.
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But how much will it cost us to keep him there when there is no future danger to the public. A fine and or community service would be a much better punishment if one is needed.
 
Well my reply to that is that you can't really put a cost on the 4 lives he extinguished. His prison sentence will act as a deterrent to those who lack common sense. Giving community service to someone who wiped out 4 people would be a mockery of the justice system.
 
The thing is - where do you draw the line of going to prison/already having being punished enough..

Sure losing your kids in a car accident because of your overconfidence in modding a car is surely enough punishment..

But then what if it was someone elses kids in his car as well? would that be enough of a punishment..?

Or what if he hit some kids at a zebra crossing? you would probably go down for Death for dangerous driving but surely the image scarred in your head of hitting the kids is enough punishment?

So like I said.. it really is where do you draw the line... I think the judge handled it well, 2 years isnt too bad, he couldve gone down for a very long time. I think more than anything the judge err'd on the side of caution of "Well if I dont send him down, can this not be used as an example by other similar cases"

Like someone above said.. it is a hard case and I think it does raise question with morals and the like within the law.

Regards, James
 
I think we need to remember he was found guilty of four counts of causing death by dangerous driving and he was driving far too fast for the conditions on that road.

That's what the 2 years are for!
 
I do hope that all the people out there that tinker with their cars and modify them extensively also, take note of this case. It is very sad that children have lost their lives due to stupidty.
It scares me somedays when my MOT tester shows me what some people do to their cars. Its nothing more than bodging and we do our best to keep them off the roads.
I havent read the full details of this car, but it baffles me how/if it got through an MOT. If it has a recent MOT certificate, we can be sure of one more station losing its licence. It deserves to too.


Kev.
 
CT said:
I can't understand some of the logic going on here. If he'd killed four children of another family, which he could just as easily have done, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this soul searching. He's killed four of his children due to his own stupidity, and he has to live with that, but all of us who drive vehicles on the road every day have a responsibility for the roadworthiness of them. It could have been your family he killed or mine. I'm not seeing any pressing reasons as to why he shouldn't face whatever sentence the court imposes. I'm sure all the circumstances were taken into consideration.
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I fully agree.


So he's been punished enough already? No he hasn't, not a bit of it. It would be bad enough endangering other road users by driving that wreck and in that manner. But this bloke endangered his own family. He deserves 100 fold what would be the norm for endangering others. He's got off extremely lightly with two years.
 
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