A question to PMN (Paul)

excalibur2

excalibur2

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Brian
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Hi
If you drum scanned at 1800dpi, would it show more detail compared to a V500 or V750 or Plustek etc when they are set for say 3,200dpi..for 35mm neg? If it does,then end of story, but if not, then you set the drum scanner to 2,400dpi what then?
 
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Brian... just a little "new forum tip" if you add a @PMN to your post, Paul will get an alert pop up about this thread

(no need to now, he'll get it from what I typed ^^^^^ :lol:)
 
TheBigYin said:
Brian... just a little "new forum tip" if you add a @PMN to your post, Paul will get an alert pop up about this thread

(no need to now, he'll get it from what I typed ^^^^^ :lol:)
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All great new stuff Ta...a bit like going from a film camera to digital :lol:
 
I will text him and tell him.
 
He's gigging this weekend, might get a reply tomorrow, Monday latest.

I'd do a quick reply myself but it's hard composing a message on a bouncy train full of p***ed up students
 
Hi Brian,

Replying on my phone here from a hotel so I'll keep it short for now. I was scanning 35mm on my V500 at 3200dpi and getting decent results but on the drum scanner I don't need to use any more than 2000dpi to get the detail I want. In short, yes, the drum scanner at 2000 blows the V500 out of the water at 3200.

As I've said a few times before, the detail the drum scanner can pull out is a result of the way it works rather than scanning resolution. Detail and resolution aren't the same thing.
 
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One small thing to add to this.
Our drum scanner (and I would assume many drum scanners) is limited to several Optical resolutions, these are a function of the minimum amount the scanner head can move between points, so we can scan optically at 1000, 2000 and 4000 dpi (several below 1000 but I've never used then). If we wanted to scan at 1800 dpi or 2400 dpi, the scanner would pick the lower optical resolution nearest it and interpolate up to the resolution we specified. A 2400 dpi scan would have no more detail than a 2000dpi scan but it would have a higher "resolution".
 
PMN said:
Hi Brian,

Replying on my phone here from
a hotel so I'll keep it short for now. I was scanning 35mm on my V500 at 3200dpi and getting decent results but on the drum scanner I don't need to use any more than 2000dpi to get the detail I want. In short, yes, the drum scanner at 2000 blows the V500 out of the water at 3200.

As I've said a few times before, the detail the drum scanner can pull out is a result of the way it works rather than scanning resolution. Detail and resolution aren't the same thing.
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Thanks... when you get back maybe you can explain it again...as for me it's confusing as I'm guessing that if you drum scanned at 1000dpi you would have the same detail, but higher the scan the more sharper the results ?????
And the other confusion is:- the low scan of Fuji Frontier machine at the supermarket was showing the same detail as my V750 at 4,800dpi on a large crop, but the V750 shot looked better because of less pixel breakup. So could this be the way the Fuji machine worked because of better optics\sensors or holding the neg better i.e. for detail only?
 
PMN said:
Brian, sorry to sound harsh but I have a feeling that whatever I say we'll just end up going round in circles like we did the last time this was mentioned!
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Oh well I'll have to go to a scanning site, maybe they can give me answers :(
 
I can try explain but as with last time, we'll probably get into comparisons with the Frontier and Asda scans which I'm not familiar with.

I'm more than happy to try explain things regarding the gear I'm familiar with as long as we're talking about 'real world' examples.
 
PMN said:
I can try explain but as with last time, we'll probably get into comparisons with the Frontier and Asda scans which I'm not familiar with.

I'm more than happy to try explain things regarding the gear I'm familiar with as long as we're talking about 'real world' examples.
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Well great..Some of these question you would know:- What's the difference between a drum scan of 1000dpi and 3000dpi? Is it because it shows more detail or things are clearer or sharper? And what would you say a drum scan is equivalent to e.g. a drum scan at 1000dpi would equal a V500, 1500dpi would equal a V750 or whatever the flatbed scanner you know about. And the new plustek of supposed true 3250dpi, I assume your drum scanner would blow it away at 3200dpi? So am I thinking right about all the above or a lot of "it depends" ?
 
PMN said:
I don't understand what you mean by "equivalent" resolution for the V500?
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Well I assume what results you see on a screen??? as you said the drum scan at 2000dpi blew away the V500, so what drum scan dpi would equal it as the true dpi of the V500 is reckoned to be about 1500dpi and the true dpi of the V750 is about 2500dpi

: Sorry Rob just seen your post going back and probably confusing everyone by repeating daft (but interesting, well to me) questions?
 
PMN said:
It isn't about dpi, Brian, it's about how the scanner works. You can't set a dpi on one machine that's "equivalent" to one on the other.
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Ah! Well Paul it looks like there isn't anything that can equal a drum scanner, and the new Plustek's tin box at supposed true 3200 for £1800 ain't going to either.
One last question and I will leave you in peace to enjoy your gigging :- What difference do you see in drum scanning at 1000dpi compared to 3000dpi?
 
excalibur2 said:
Ah! Well Paul it looks like there isn't anything that can equal a drum scanner, and the new Plustek's tin box at supposed true 3200 for £1800 ain't going to either.
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Sorry Brian, I'm not interested in continuing this further. I've never said nothing can equal a drum scanner (although that is widely regarded as true), all I've said is there's no way the V500 can resolve the same kind of detail as the D4000 and that has absolutely nothing to do with resolution. It's completely beyond me why you keep repeatedly mentioning other scanners despite the fact I've said multiple times I have no experience with them so I can't comment.

It seems you're asking these questions in a more argumentative way that through genuine interest.
 
PMN said:
Sorry Brian, I'm not interested in continuing this further. I've never said nothing can equal a drum scanner (although that is widely regarded as true), all I've said is there's no way the V500 can resolve the same kind of detail as the D4000 and that has absolutely nothing to do with resolution. It's completely beyond me why you keep repeatedly mentioning other scanners despite the fact I've said multiple times I have no experience with them so I can't comment.

It seems you're asking these questions in a more argumentative way that through genuine interest.
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Well that's not very friendly, anyway thanks for your valuable time :(
 
Sounds to me like the difference between precision and accuracy. "The distance between London and New York is 3.823112 metres" is a very precise statement, and a very inaccurate one. 3000DPI is more precise than 1500DPI, but it's not necessarily more accurate.
 
abdoujaparov said:
Sounds to me like the difference between precision and accuracy. "The distance between London and New York is 3.823112 metres" is a very precise statement, and a very inaccurate one. 3000DPI is more precise than 1500DPI, but it's not necessarily more accurate.
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Scanning can be a complicated subject if you browse the net. If I could find this for about £300 (and cows might fly) it might not be as good as a drum scanner, but it's good enough for me, mind you it would have to go in the garage and wouldn't be much fun in the winter :(
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...wDc0FvFRQ5MF0DUWiiB1XhhwV_RhRo4-LQM-njCUshIp0
 
I think what Paul is trying to say is the drum scanner works in a much more precise way to a standard scanner and he explained that in great detail over the curry and a few pints a few days ago, Brian the two technologies are not compatable at a same dpi and the cost is 10x difference. maybe you could buy a drum scanner?
 
mines a chicken achari with som chapattis
 
excalibur2 said:
Ah! Well Paul it looks like there isn't anything that can equal a drum scanner, and the new Plustek's tin box at supposed true 3200 for £1800 ain't going to either.
One last question and I will leave you in peace to enjoy your gigging :- What difference do you see in drum scanning at 1000dpi compared to 3000dpi?
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Brian, most dedicated film scanners get around 3000 - 4000 dpi when measured on test charts at their maximum scanning resolution so Plustek's scanner is nothing that special to be honest. For the price the Plustek 120 sells you can easily get a Reflecta MF 5000 or an (identically cased to the Reflecta but different insides) Braun FS-120 for much cheaper, all of which attain roughly 3200 dpi on test charts.

Re the drum scanner v v500 debate, even if you were theoretically able to match them to produce identical image resolutions, its like comparing an identical shot taken with a cheap 16mp digital compact to that of a pro, top of the line 16mp DSLR with the same settings, the technology difference between the two is so great that the comparison is meaningless.
 
Mr Bump said:
I think what Paul is trying to say is the drum scanner works in a much more precise way to a standard scanner and he explained that in great detail over the curry and a few pints a few days ago, Brian the two technologies are not compatable at a same dpi and the cost is 10x difference. maybe you could buy a drum scanner?
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Thanks I didn't know that before, and originally thought there could be a relationship from seeing the RESULTS where the drum scanner set at 1000dpi would be the same as say a V500 or V750 or whatever flat out at max dpi scan......again on seeing the results.
 
its like looking up a girls skirt................. [insert completely inapropriate comparisom here ] :runaway:
 
s162216 said:
Brian, most dedicated film scanners get around 3000 - 4000 dpi when measured on test charts at their maximum scanning resolution so Plustek's scanner is nothing that special to be honest. For the price the Plustek 120 sells you can easily get a Reflecta MF 5000 or an (identically cased to the Reflecta but different insides) Braun FS-120 for much cheaper, all of which attain roughly 3200 dpi on test charts.

Re the drum scanner v v500 debate, even if you were theoretically able to match them to produce identical image resolutions, its like comparing an identical shot taken with a cheap 16mp digital compact to that of a pro, top of the line 16mp DSLR with the same settings, the technology difference between the two is so great that the comparison is meaningless.
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Well just to confuse a complicated subject......Photoshop could be an equalizer ;)
 
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Mr Bump said:
its like looking up a girls skirt................. [insert completely inapropriate comparisom here ] :runaway:
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Well with my first girlfriend..if I look at a pinup photo of an undressed woman, she would say "she hasn't got anything that I haven't got" :lol: But when I said something similar like "what's he got that I haven't" when she was swooning over Elvis Presley..and she would reply "money" :lol:
 
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