A new body, or new glass

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Cliveyp

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Clive
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I'll put this here as I really consider it a basic question, although my mind doesn't find it easy to answer for the best! I'm in the position where I could look at replacing my aging 400D body with a more up to date model, but i'm wondering if thats my best bet.

I'm currently shooting various products for an RC car magazine, and some of the action shots can be quite hard to time correctly due to an unexpected action/movement at speed. I was being drawn towards the 7D and its 8fps burst rate as being a solution for this, plus my addiction for new toys now that the 400D is so old. My current lenses are the nifty-fifty, the kit 18-55 (non-IS) and a cheapo Tamron 55-200 (which must be a good one as its actually pretty sharp, although veeeerrry slow to focus, which really doesn't help the RC shoots!). Along with this, i've also been asked to shoot a friends wedding in about 12 months time, so saw this opportunity as a chance to upgrade in preparation for that.

Now, my choice is.......
1) Do I upgrade the 400D for a 7D? My father is interested in buying this as he's an old film-man looking to move to a DSLR instead of his digi-compact, so resale is not an issue. He would be taking the kit lens and Tamron in the deal, leaving me enough money to look at either the 7D 18-135 kit, or a body only with a Sigma 17-70 or Tamron 17-50.
2) Stick with the 400D (is it really good enough for a wedding??) and use the money to buy the Sigma/Tamron options above, along with a bit of a home-studio set-up for the RC static shots and some portraits, and maybe even a Canon 70-200 f4.0 L
3) Another option that i've not thought of?

I'd be looking at a budget of around £1200-1300 maximum, want the good glass, but also not sure that my 400D is wedding material! HELP ME!!
 
Having upgraded from a 400D to a 7D I'm a little biased ;)

It's certainly not a move I've regretted :love:

With that sort of budget, you could always look at a pre-owned 7D for around £900 http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/us...ed-canon-digital-slr-cameras/canon-eos-7d-13/
or get in touch with Kerso on here, he did me a cracking deal :)

And perhaps consider the Canon 15-85 which is a cracking lens (in my opinion) and very versatile. I would be happy using my 7D/15-85 for a wedding with the 400D as backup provided I wasn't being paid for it ;)

The 7D isn't very fogiving on cheaper glass, although you may be OK with your Tamron
 
The advice always seems to be go for glass,BUT, I have recently changed from a 400D to a 40D and although my glass is good it is not L and I have found a maerked improvement in the quality of the shots.With a move to a 7D it should be even greater
 
I'm literaly in exactly the same boat right now! Shooting with a 400d, have been for YEARS! But eyeing up a 7D, not sure how much of a risk a second hand purchase would be though.
 
Or you could get a new import from hdewcameras for around the same price as a second hand one.

How about a 40/50/60d and a lens?
 
The general rule is that glass is more important than body.

There isn't much point in spending g the best part of £1000 on a body any using cheap glass.

What focal lengths do you tend to use for the RC car work?

Also I wouldn't consider shooting a wedding without back ups of body, lenses and flash gun.
 
You are in quite a tough situation as you need a few things to make everything work.

I would say a more responsive body is going to help with RC Car shooting but then again so will a lens. A great combo is something like the 40/50D with a 70-200mm f2.8 or f4. This will give better AF from both the body and lens as well as higher continuous shot speeds.

When it comes to the wedding, as Lewis mentions you will want 2 bodies, 2 lenses that cover each of the key focal lengths, 2 flash guns, lenses that allow no flash in low light (assuming flash can't be used during the ceremony). If you are selling to your dad then being able to borrow the body for the wedding will be good. The camera has enough quality to shoot a wedding as long as there is enough light and good enough glass on the front. I won't start the conversation about the whole technical side of wedding shooting as that will blow the thread open LOL.

Would love to see some of your RC Car shots, I play a little with cars but mainly do aircraft and helis.
 
Focal lengths can range from circa 20mm to 200mm, depending on if they're static shots of particular parts or action shots on a track.

For a back-up body for the wedding(s) i can get access of the 400D again so thats not too much of an issue.

I understand your comments on glass being more important, which is kinda really why I asked this question. I currently have that bulk of money available to me to spend which is why I was looking toward the replacement body, where as theres a chance in the future that I could "find" a few hundred at a time for lenses. I'm not planning on using any of the current ones with a 7D bar the 50mm, and thats only a temporary measure.
 
mark1616 said:
You are in quite a tough situation as you need a few things to make everything work.

I would say a more responsive body is going to help with RC Car shooting but then again so will a lens. A great combo is something like the 40/50D with a 70-200mm f2.8 or f4. This will give better AF from both the body and lens as well as higher continuous shot speeds.

When it comes to the wedding, as Lewis mentions you will want 2 bodies, 2 lenses that cover each of the key focal lengths, 2 flash guns, lenses that allow no flash in low light (assuming flash can't be used during the ceremony). If you are selling to your dad then being able to borrow the body for the wedding will be good. The camera has enough quality to shoot a wedding as long as there is enough light and good enough glass on the front. I won't start the conversation about the whole technical side of wedding shooting as that will blow the thread open LOL.

Would love to see some of your RC Car shots, I play a little with cars but mainly do aircraft and helis.
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Thanks Mark. I'll try to sort a few shots out to post up. I'm sure many people on here can do a lot better, but for me its a good starting point and a chance to get stuck in with a reason!

In your opinion, would I be better off aiming at a 50/60d and the glass, instead of grabbing a 7D when I can? I want to make the best of the money I have got currently, and want to make sure taht what ever I have is adequate for another few years and potentially some money-making. The last thing I want to do is buy the wrong thing for me and regret it in 6 months time! I must admit, the only real draw of the 7D was the 8fps, but having not handled either I hadn't considered any other benefits. I can only imaginne that (if things take off) i'd want to go full-frame at some point, so may be the cheaper APS-C option would be better??? Help me out!?!?!?!?:gag:
 
I used to use a Canon 30D with 5 frames per second and that was fine for sports, I then added a 1DmkIII with 10fps which rocked. I traded that in recently for a 2nd 5DmkII as weddings are mainly what I do now (used to do a lot of sports) so there was no point having a camera of that spec just sitting there. I now use the 7D if I want something for sports/wildlife and it is honestly great, but that's because I have the glass to get the benefits. I would personally skip the 60D (I don't like not having micro AF adjustment) and go with a 50D, this will give you 6.3fps which is still plenty fast enough and another gain is usable ISO 3200 (when shooting in RAW) which will help at a wedding.

As for the full frame thing, there is only one Canon body that does sports well which is the 1D-X and I doubt many of us have the budget for that. The 5DmkII bodies that I use are OK but the AF isn't as good as on the 7D, it would also mean a change to your lenses if you step away from the crop sensors of the xxxD/xxD/7D cameras.

Getting the Canon 70-200mm f4 or the 2.8 would be a great addition to a 50D, they are sharp wide open and also great AF speed.
 
Thanks Mark. I'll weigh up a few options now. I hadn't considered the 60D before, let alone a 50D, as I kept getting drawn to the 8fps of the 7, but in reality it may well be the safer option meaning I can invest in some decent glass too.

I suppose, in real life, the 6.3fps wouldn't show that much difference over the 8fps of a much more expensive body.........

As a matter of interest, you mention the microAF that the 60d lacks....can you expand on this??
 
Sure, micro AF is the ability to 'tune' the focus on individual lenses so that they are as accurate as possible. It helps to solve the problem of some lenses not being spot on. Most lenses I have need a little tweak to get them as good as possible, if you don't have this feature you might always be a little off on certain pieces of glass. It's not essential with small aperture/wide angle lenses, but when you start working with a shallow depth of field you really notice it.
 
Is it something the 50d carries?

More importantly, as time moves on into next year and i'm looking into shooting the wedding, and if any more come along, will i find the 50D suitable with some decent glass? or will I look towards wanting an upgrade fairly quickly?
 
Yes, the 50D was the first non pro level camera to have this technology, they didn't include it on the 60D as I guess this helps diferentiate from the 7D which again has the technology.

It is also found in the 1D cameras and the 5DmkII's. I can't think of anything else that has had it included.

With the right glass I would be happy to shoot a wedding on a 50D (well 2 of them), for the way I work I like to use full frame more, but then again I'm shooting many weddings a year so can justify the cost. I've seen some very good photographers using crop cameras like the 40D, 50D, Nikon D200/D300 etc.
 
Thanks Mark, really appreciate your help!

So....a used 50D with a Sigma 17-70 OS and a Canon 70-200 F4 L comes in at the same sort of range as the 7D with the Sigma alone..........good selection or would you recommend something in the used lens range that would be better?
 
For weddings I wouldn't want to be using the Sigma 17-70 as it isn't fixed max aperture so you drop to f4 (I think) when zooming to the max. I would look at one of the 17-50mm options for the constant f2.8. I have a Tamron which does OK, still not 100% happy with the AF so it will probably be taking a visit to the distributor for a little tune up. Lots of people have been very happy with theirs though so sure it is just the copy I have.

The reason I say not to go with a variable aperture lens is that if you shoot manual (for a wedding inside you really want to otherwise your exposure could be all over the place with windows, a white dress, dark suit etc) then you have to use it as f4 all the time otherwise you will under expose when zooming as the lens will go from f2.8 to f4 without other settings changing.
 
Ah, valid reason if ever I saw one!

Many thanks Mark, I really appreciate the info you have given me...I just hope it actually works for me!!

It's certainly opened my mind to a different way of thinking, and is actually more sensible when I think of the budget I have and the kit I need to make things work. A quick look around has seen me find 50D's for less than £500 (in supposed excellent condition - LCE Manchester), although none local at the moment, so its not a massive upgrade cost for body alone once the 400d is sold on. It also means a couple of decent lenses are in the bag that can stay with me for any future upgrade when things take-off!
 
With that budget you got you in a pretty good situation. You may want to keep the 400d as a back up if needed.

Spend that £500 on a 50d which is very good. and then consider the following lens.

1) Tamron 17-50 f2.8 non VC (used maybe)
2) Canon 70-200 f4 L (used maybe)
3) some prime as well.
 
Thanks Badboy, it's definately my first thinking now!

Yes Mark, I still mean to my dad. He may well even be at the wedding to help as he used to be a part time tog many many moons ago with film. Access to this as a second body will be no issue at all!
 
Cliveyp said:
Thanks Badboy, it's definately my first thinking now!

Yes Mark, I still mean to my dad. He may well even be at the wedding to help as he used to be a part time tog many many moons ago with film. Access to this as a second body will be no issue at all!
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Great.
 
Thanks for all your help Mark, well beyond the call of duty!! :)
 
badboy1984 said:
With that budget you got you in a pretty good situation. You may want to keep the 400d as a back up if needed.

Spend that £500 on a 50d which is very good. and then consider the following lens.

1) Tamron 17-50 f2.8 non VC (used maybe)
2) Canon 70-200 f4 L (used maybe)
3) some prime as well.
Click to expand...

Good advice I think. The old adage of lens before camera was based on the fact that cameras basically just held the film. With digital, of course the camera is also the film as well, and then you need good lenses too. Basically, you need a balanced outfit all round.

You'll need a back up for the wedding so dad is handy. A good flash, and learn how to use it.
 
Good point Richard, Flash gun as well lol.

So get the body, look for a used tamron 17-50 f2.8, used canon 70-200 f4 L and a flash fun as well.

If on a budget on flash gun, you can consider Metz flash. I use Metz myself and it does the job fine.
 
I've got a Canon 430EX2 anyway, so that should hold me in good stead....i'd hope!
 
Cliveyp said:
I've got a Canon 430EX2 anyway, so that should hold me in good stead....i'd hope!
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:thumbs: Get the hang of using it for bounce-fill, for which you'll need an accessory as the 430 doesn't have a pull-out bounce card.

Use a business card held on the back with a rubber band, or the ever-popular Stofen type device. Best accessory I've come across for this is the Lumiquest QuikBounce here http://www.lumiquest.com/store/products/LumiQuest-Quik-Bounce.html There are some good user reviews on that page, particularly how to do the three-lights-in-one trick :D
 
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