A little macro advice

N1ntend0

N1ntend0

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Hi all,

I have the Nikon 105 Macro lens (to go on a D200 atm) but now want to get closer still and more magnification.

Do I invest in bellows, a reversing ring or extension tubes?

I intend to shoot spiders, insects etc light with off camera flash.

I'm not looking to spend huge amounts but also don't buy anything "cheap"

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
If I can get 1:1 with just the lens, what magnification do you think I could get with all three ext tubes? Is this better than if I picked up some bellows?

I'm not that fussed about having to stop the lens down manually as I intend to trap and stun my victims (tupperware in the fridge etc) and then place them and be able to take my time a bit more than "stalking them in the wild" as it were.
 
N1ntend0 said:
I intend to trap and stun my victims (tupperware in the fridge etc) and then place them and be able to take my time a bit more than "stalking them in the wild" as it were.
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Personally I wouldn't be shouting THAT too loud in a forum with a large amount of macro enthusuasts. How would you like it if I stunned you and then chucked your body in the fridge for a few hours :shake:
 
Mike.P said:
Personally I wouldn't be shouting THAT too loud in a forum with a large amount of macro enthusuasts. How would you like it if I stunned you and then chucked your body in the fridge for a few hours :shake:
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I'm talking about very common insects, not remotely endangered species or likely to be so anytime soon, and I aim for them to survive the ordeal, how many people do you know that irrationally kill spiders on sight?

I love the cold btw - give me the mountains and snow any day, not sure about the stunning bit though ;)

As to the large amount of macro enthusiasts - not much evidence of that based on 1 reply in almost a week.
 
N1ntend0 said:
If I can get 1:1 with just the lens, what magnification do you think I could get with all three ext tubes? Is this better than if I picked up some bellows?

I'm not that fussed about having to stop the lens down manually as I intend to trap and stun my victims (tupperware in the fridge etc) and then place them and be able to take my time a bit more than "stalking them in the wild" as it were.
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Extension tubes should give you about 2:1 - but first learn some field craft and learn 1:1 without stunning / killing your victims...........:nono:
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
Extension tubes should give you about 2:1 - but first learn some field craft and learn 1:1 without stunning / killing your victims...........:nono:
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Your images are stunning, I will have to improve my craft and invest in an mp-e (and a Canon body too) at some point in the future.

I'm quite happy technique wise at 1:1 with the macro lens I have (with fully active victims) but want to get to 5:1 and maybe beyond.

Given that the tubes could get me to 2:1, could bellows and or reversing ring get me closer?

I appreciate that I have to work toward the higher magnifications as technique improves etc and am prepared to invest the time.
 
N1ntend0 said:
Your images are stunning, I will have to improve my craft and invest in an mp-e (and a Canon body too) at some point in the future.

I'm quite happy technique wise at 1:1 with the macro lens I have (with fully active victims) but want to get to 5:1 and maybe beyond.

Given that the tubes could get me to 2:1, could bellows and or reversing ring get me closer?

I appreciate that I have to work toward the higher magnifications as technique improves etc and am prepared to invest the time.
Click to expand...

To be honest the Canon MP-e is the only way to go if you want usable above 2:1..... up until about 2 months ago i was a Nikon user and i had gone down the Nikon bellows (PB-6) route , reverse mounted lens etc etc and its virtually impossible to get consistent high quality images (well it was for me ) the bellows gave me @ 7:1 with a reverse mounted 24mm lens but the light fall off and difficulty getting light to the subject due to tiny working distances and the non-existence of any DOF finally got the better of me and i sold up and jumped ship to Cannon, got the MP-e and MT-24ex flash and am currently going through a steep learning curve but the pain has been worth it :D
 
I noticed that you had made the switch to Canon, do you look at the possibilty of attaching the Mp-e to the Nikon with an adapter? The usual objections to these adapters were lack of autofocus and infinity focus, neither of which we're interested in for macro/micro.
 
N1ntend0 said:
I noticed that you had made the switch to Canon, do you look at the possibilty of attaching the Mp-e to the Nikon with an adapter? The usual objections to these adapters were lack of autofocus and infinity focus, neither of which we're interested in for macro/micro.
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I did look into this but the MP-e doesn't have a aperture ring :'( so you cant manually control the aperture.
 
N1ntend0 said:
If I can get 1:1 with just the lens, what magnification do you think I could get with all three ext tubes? Is this better than if I picked up some bellows?

I'm not that fussed about having to stop the lens down manually as I intend to trap and stun my victims (tupperware in the fridge etc) and then place them and be able to take my time a bit more than "stalking them in the wild" as it were.
Click to expand...
I wondered how you kept them damn things still:thinking:now i know:lol:
 
Ok, so back to what I have available currently and given your recent Nikon knowledge, would you suggest I use the 105 macro on

1) pb-6 off fleabay
2) new auto extension tubes

The cost seems about the same - £100-150ish

or reverse it/another lens - perhaps something wider or the 55/60mm macro lens

Then plan to acquire an mp-e and body at some later date.
 
raythefab said:
I wondered how you kept them damn things still:thinking:now i know:lol:
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It could be worse, I hear liquid nitrogen does wonders for keeping them still but may have longer term health consequences ;)

TBH I do not want to kill any creature, except maybe estate agents and telesales callers
 
Your 50mm reverse mounted on the PB-6 will give approx 5:1 but lighting for Focusing & taking the shot is a pain in the ass as the limited DOF, its also virtually impossible to use this setup outside for bug shots. The Kenko auto tubes will give you approx 2:1 your setup will still be portable and as you will retain aperture control from the body making lighting / focusing a lot simpler and personally this is the route i'd go to start with. Also when starting to use larger magnifications and bigger effective apertures lighting becomes more important so you may want to look at the R1 macro flash.
 
So it seems that generally shorter lenses give bigger magnifications but at close working distances thus the lighting difficulties, but I do have a ringflash :)

That 50 1.4 is still the sharpest lens I have.

I was expecting the 105 + bellows to be the better route for magnification - shows how much I do know.
 
Macro lenses have a flatter plane of focus, so they're more appropriate.

The rule for magnification is:
Reproduction Ratio = mm of added extension / focal length in mm

This depends on the lens being focused to infinity (which it won't be). Also, some macro lenses change focal length as you focus them (zoom, basically) and build in extension into the element movements.

It does, however, give you a rough idea and shows you that wider lenses are better.
 
Blapto said:
The rule for magnification is:
Reproduction Ratio = mm of added extension / focal length in mm
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I suspect this isn't true for the lens I have as it does 1:1 unaided
 
N1ntend0 said:
I suspect this isn't true for the lens I have as it does 1:1 unaided
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It's always true, that's how laws of optics work.

Your lens will be adding extension and zooming internally rather than externally. The focal length probably changes as you focus nearer as well.
 
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