A gripe about Panoramas

Terrywoodenpic

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Terry
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More nonsense is written about stitching Panoramas than almost any other digital technique.
In this weeks AP it is held up as if it were in some way difficult,…..
That sometimes pictures will not go together with out strange overlaps.
That stitching five landscape shots together is no easy feat;
That extreme wide angle lenses exaggerate and distort the whole scene;
That the image produced is not technically correct.;
That the implication is that straight and level horizons might be difficult to achieve.
On the processing side it was suggested that PTLens or such program was necessary before stitching.


Most of the better modern stitching software is base on the math of Professor Helmut Dursch and his work on “Panorama Tools”
PTLens is a front end Gui that uses this same software for lens corrections. It is totally unnecessary to use this as a preliminary step when using stitching software based on PT, Such as PTAssembler or PTGui as this function is an integral part of the process.

It makes no difference to such stitching software what focal length is used, from Extreme wide to extreme telephoto makes no difference at all to the geometry of the final result. They will be Identical.

However you will need more shots the longer the lens you use, also the detail achieved and file size will also become greater.

It is no more difficult, though takes more processing time, to stitch with any number of shots provided they are taken with a properly set up Pano bracket, or do not include widely different object distances.

Things such as vertical features and horizons are normally automatically dealt with by the software, but both the above mentioned stitching programs make any needed manual corrections simplicity itself.

More recent blending plugins like smart blend even deal with residual parallax problems and even up skies quite automatically.

Perhaps the most “Problematic” area in making stitches is the choice of control points when done automatically these are often clumped in close proximity, or even worse, placed in the sky or on trees, water or other moving objects. The recent plug in “panomatic” seems to give a far better spread of points than the older “autopano”

The primary function of the control points is to supply information about the orientation of the individual pictures and supply matamatical data of the physical lens distortions. Focal length and crop factor is normally provided by the exif data.

Bad control points provide incorrect data to the stitcher, which can then cause weird results.
In such cases or when the highest quality results are necessary, bad points should be removed and new one positioned manually.

Resulting stitched panoramas give technically correct representations of the original scene but their suitability will depend on the whatever projection is chosen for the final result

On the taking side… the information provided by David Clapp is excellent, though I would add that the bubble level should not be used to make corrections to individual shots as this always results in stitching problems.
For your pockets sake, I would advise looking at the Nodal Ninja Range of Pano brackets, they are excellent.

Useful links.
http://www.tawbaware.com/forum2/
http://www.nodalninja.com/index.html
http://www.nodalninja.com/forum/
http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/
http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr.htm
www.PTGui.com
 
I’ve never understood why a ‘Pano’ head is needed as I’ve done a pano handheld before and it stitched together perfectly.
 
They don't always work so easily

pgw.jpg


:D

:bonk:
 
I’ve never understood why a ‘Pano’ head is needed as I’ve done a pano handheld before and it stitched together perfectly.

Me too. I have built my own pano head just to make it a bit easier and to minimise paralax with close objects - but panoramas are perfectly feasable handheld.
 
i did a 360 deg pano handheld with a P&S on top of the Empire State Building and that came out ok
 
There's quite a bit more to it than most people realise.
Panos are wonderful things, you have to fully understand a lot of areas, know your equipment inside out, know what works and what don't and factor in a lot of photoshop work (especially on hand helds) before the magic starts to appears.
I've been producing Full Screen for years, now specialising is Hand Held, 8 shots in 2 secs freestyle

Mela2v2.jpg
!
Swindon Mela Festival, Taken Handheld for fullscreen visit http://www.virtuaswindon.com/mela.html
 
Were you doing an Irish Jig whilst doing that? The woman 1/3rd in from the right must thing you are a right .....

For a 8 shot 360 degrees, you must be taking 1 shot every 45 degrees. As (one that I saw) suggestion is you overlap ~50% each shot (so 3 shots to double width), that is a 90 degree field of view?
 
I had avoided talking about hand helds Though rather more of mine are taken that way than are taken on my Nodal Ninja.
Photoshop work is only a very minor factor, If one at all, when using a bracket.

Unlike Karmann excellent shot, I do not take 360x180's. Though they are very popular for certain work, but need to be seen on a computer screen.
 
Were you doing an Irish Jig whilst doing that? The woman 1/3rd in from the right must thing you are a right .....

For a 8 shot 360 degrees, you must be taking 1 shot every 45 degrees. As (one that I saw) suggestion is you overlap ~50% each shot (so 3 shots to double width), that is a 90 degree field of view?

Yep, onlookers always wonder what your doing when you stick you camera in the air and start spinning around like Kylie Minogue, used to the strange looks now. This was taken with a Sigma 8mm, normally 4 shots around but on handhelds it can be hit & miss, so best to have some spare imagery to chop up incase needed. I've got a 360 precision as well which I use on boring shoots but to get amongst the action you need to go handheld.
 
Yep, onlookers always wonder what your doing when you stick you camera in the air and start spinning around like Kylie Minogue, used to the strange looks now. This was taken with a Sigma 8mm, normally 4 shots around but on handhelds it can be hit & miss, so best to have some spare imagery to chop up incase needed. I've got a 360 precision as well which I use on boring shoots but to get amongst the action you need to go handheld.

Do you use a pole for those hand held 360x180's to keep things near enough?
 
Do you use a pole for those hand held 360x180's to keep things near enough?

No, I've practised for years just sticking my arm up and keeping it rigid whilst rotating around keeping the lens in near enough the same place, It's sort of more automatic now where I've had years of trial and error. I can pretty get much any sort of action scene now, such as on rollercoasters etc, where they're hitting speeds of around 60mph.
bKTP.jpg

Chessington World of Adventures
 
No, I've practised for years just sticking my arm up and keeping it rigid whilst rotating around keeping the lens in near enough the same place....

That is the key movement.

Most people rotate around their waist/body with the camera on the outside diameter of the rotation. You should always keep the camera central and you rotate around it.
 
Another handheld taken in practically Darkness at Yarmouth Hippodrome Circus, ISO 3200, bit tricky taken from my seat as cameras weren't allowed!
Try smuggling a Pano Head and tripod into these kinda places.
You can just see the people on the far right wondering 'whats that idiot up to?'
circusHD.jpg
 
That is the key movement.

Most people rotate around their waist/body with the camera on the outside diameter of the rotation. You should always keep the camera central and you rotate around it.

If you rotate around the waist it takes longer as you shuffle around trying to focus where the camera is and keep that central, my way brings big speed gains by flick of a twisty wrist action to rotate the camera and you can focus on what will appear in the 360 more.
 
If you rotate around the waist it takes longer as you shuffle around trying to focus where the camera is and keep that central, my way brings big speed gains by flick of a twisty wrist action to rotate the camera and you can focus on what will appear in the 360 more.

I meant as an overlap and reduction in parallax error issue more than for speed or ease. It's no way perfect but apart from holding the lens on top of a monopod and rotate around that centre, it's the best for hand holding technique.

Of course a pano head and tripod, set correctly, for close quarter panoramas will be the best option. :)
 
I meant as an overlap and reduction in parallax error issue more than for speed or ease. It's no way perfect but apart from holding the lens on top of a monopod and rotate around that centre, it's the best for hand holding technique.

Of course a pano head and tripod, set correctly, for close quarter panoramas will be the best option. :)

Yeah, my 360 precision gets used whenever possible but when your out and about and you see something interesting around you, you just gotta go for it. They always take a lot more work to complete than if you've got a Tripod and head set up but thats all part of the fun.
 
Karmaan, I love the 360 degree shot. You've inspired me to have a go. Thanks
 
i havent done a pano for a long time, this thread has resurected my interest i in them :)

last one i did was in st ives was handhelp by moving myself around the pivot point in front of the lens. its not quite perfect but with a little fiddling can be sorted (although ive just noticed a few artifacts in the full size version lol)

2924746183_024f6b38cd_b.jpg
 
Karmaan, I love the 360 degree shot. You've inspired me to have a go. Thanks

Give it a go, it's often frustrating but persevere and you'll get there in the end. Taken me around 7 years to get where I am today with them. Started off on an old ipix system, I find them the most interesting kind of photography, thats why I keep at it. I do a lot of boring stuff such as Product shots and product rotations but getting in amongst the action is where it's at for me.
 
Give it a go, it's often frustrating but persevere and you'll get there in the end. Taken me around 7 years to get where I am today with them. Started off on an old ipix system, I find them the most interesting kind of photography, thats why I keep at it. I do a lot of boring stuff such as Product shots and product rotations but getting in amongst the action is where it's at for me.

You mention the Ipix... which had patented software but which was almost identical to Helmut Dursh's earlier but never patented freeware.

What software do you use now. ?
 
Give it a go, it's often frustrating but persevere and you'll get there in the end. Taken me around 7 years to get where I am today with them. Started off on an old ipix system, I find them the most interesting kind of photography, thats why I keep at it. I do a lot of boring stuff such as Product shots and product rotations but getting in amongst the action is where it's at for me.

Thanks for that. I will. One of the problems I might have is doing the photos in public.

I get very "aware" of others when I am trying to take candids.
 
You mention the Ipix... which had patented software but which was almost identical to Helmut Dursh's earlier but never patented freeware.

What software do you use now. ?

I obtained an Ipix Rotator but the software was locked as it was based on a Pay Per Pano system. I started then using PTMac and Messing with Apple Quick Time VR Authoring Studio, I found many give inconsistent results. Nowadays I'm using custom built Templates for use with PTMac. Sometimes it takes two or three different final Pano's of the same image using different Settings and I'll cut them all up and make one final image. For instance one setting may set the left half fine and be way off on the right half and vice versa. If you have more to play to start with you can factor in for problems on the stitching.
 
Thanks for that. I will. One of the problems I might have is doing the photos in public.

I get very "aware" of others when I am trying to take candids.

Don't worry about it, people don't really realise what your doing and by the time they've figured it out I'm usually walking off in the opposite direction.:lol:
 
i attempted a pano the other day of a concrete bowl (skatepark)

a full 180, not 360

panaramicbowl.jpg



stitched by hand as i dont like PS stitching


(ps i know thers a little glitch between 5th and 6th picture)
 
i attempted a pano the other day of a concrete bowl (skatepark)

a full 180, not 360

panaramicbowl.jpg

stitched by hand as i dont like PS stitching
(ps i know thers a little glitch between 5th and 6th picture)


PS stitching is pretty basic and not very adaptable.

It would be worth learning to use PTAssembler for non 360x180pans
Or the slightly more expensive PTGui for 360x180 if you get into that.
PTGui also runs on Mac. Once you have gone through the learning curve both programs are very versatile and very easy.
 
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