A Dumb Question.

Dale.

Dale.

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Dale.
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This might sound daft, very daft, even by my standards. :p

Firstly, I have a 5Div, totally in love with it. It's great in the hide and great for landscapes. I have a concern though. At 7fps, which ok, isn't hugely fast, it still doesn't take long to ramp up the shutter count. Years ago, that wouldn't have bothered me, I was taking pics for the sake of it, without any thought or regard and hoping for a good one, safety in numbers so to speak.

These days, I'm more selective, I only take images when need be, my 5D is over a year old now and still only 2118 clicks. I baby my gear these days, I have to as it has to last me a long time, another big purchase like the 5D would probably be divorce territory. I love my wife more than my 5D. :D

I also have a 7D(mki). Some of you will have read about my woes with it, mainly the grain it seems to produce. I have read reams on it and whilst I have improved my handling of it, I still get issues with grain even when ETTR. It's much better now I have an understanding of the camera and processing its files but I fear it's a camera I will never love. A lot of it was me with the 7D but even now, it's still grainy at times even when making the effort to ETTR. It's a shame, as in all other respects, it would make a great hide camera.

So I'm thinking of trading in my 7D. The options are, an M50 or M5, or an 80D, probably second hand or imported as I don't want to be too fussy about them being subject to hide life or care too much about the shutter count.

This is where you come in. If it were you, would it be one of the Ms or the 80D, or neither? Why? Each have their own attributes and one advantage, if you can call it that over the 5D and that's the extra reach. The 5D is of course much better in so many ways IMO but I'm thinking of garden hide use and the odd walkabout too.

Over to you.

Thanks muchly. (y)
 
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Sell it and keep the money for a while and mull it over for a couple of weeks or months.
They are easy to sell private, I sold one on ebay the other day and it went in about a day.
 
Canon brook said:
Sell it and buy a teleconvertor.....?
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I have a Siggy 1.4x, which is very handy. If I'm honest, it's not so much about the reach though, it would be nice to have the extra but that's not really the deal breaker. I'm just questioning my sanity trading a 7D, with all its good points, for potentially an M series camera. It's more about image quality, albeit crop sensor image quality and also, not worrying too much about the odd bash or bump in the hide.
 
Caerus said:
Sell it and keep the money for a while and mull it over for a couple of weeks or months.
They are easy to sell private, I sold one on ebay the other day and it went in about a day.
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Thanks. (y)

I've been mulling it for a while now and I'm about ready to move on it, possibly after Christmas. I have quite a few nice L lenses too, which might work better on the newer crop sensors, which is my thinking. L is excellent on the 5D.
 
sirch said:
Olympus EM1 ii or EM 5 ii and a Canon adaptor :exit:
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Nice cameras, a friend has one and has had real success with it. He's mainly a landscaper and has won many awards and competitions at club level with what he calls "Olly". I have a Fuji X-T10, which I like more than the 7D but I don't really want to invest hugely in extra glass for that as well as have another menu system in my head. I'm getting older and needing to be more specific when it comes to menus. :LOL:

Seriously though, I'm thinking of narrowing down to one system.
 
Use the 5d as much as you want, and don't worry about the shutter count.
You dont need another camera.
If you need to, in the future, sell some gear and get a new shutter fitted.
 
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I wouldn't bother replacing it with any of those options. Whilst they can all produce decent shots, none can touch the 5d4 for IQ, and if you have a spot on full frame image then you can crop it in to negate most, if not all, of the crop factor.

Buy a mk3 1.4x converter or put it towards a photo trip, you'll get better shots that way than buying one of those bodies

Mike
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Use the 5d as much as you want, and don't worry about the shutter count.
You dont need another camera.
If you need to, in the future, sell some gear and get a new shutter fitted.
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or buy more glass. I quite fancy the 600L but that's deffo sleeping in the shed ( for months, at least ) territory. :D

pooley said:
you'll get better shots that way than buying one of those bodies

Mike
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Keep the 7D (as oppossed to the Ms or 80D) and get to know it better than I have recently? I still feel I could get better images out of it, I want to give it every chance and hold on to some money or invest in glass.:) Is one stop to the right enough or, depending on conditions, it could be even more? I'm currently gettting a fair amount of data in the 5th box to the right with live view, whilst trying not to blow it. I'm wondering if the 7D needs to be pushed to the right even more.

Thanks for the input, muchly appreciated. (y)
 
Unless you're taking it as a challenge to take on the 7d, then I'm not sure why you bother with the it! Even it's best file won't be as good as your 5d4.

Regards ETTR, the further the better. I like to use blinkies on the histogram. As the screen is a jpeg representation you can get away with a few blinkies on a dull day, whereas in bright light they will often be unrecoverable
 
pooley said:
Unless you're taking it as a challenge to take on the 7d, then I'm not sure why you bother with the it! Even it's best file won't be as good as your 5d4.

Regards ETTR, the further the better. I like to use blinkies on the histogram. As the screen is a jpeg representation you can get away with a few blinkies on a dull day, whereas in bright light they will often be unrecoverable
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(y)
 
Unless you need a second camera I’d sell the 7D and keep the proceeds. Your 5D is hardly used, 2k clicks is one day of use for me!
 
I have a thing about chopping and changing bodies/systems etc .... you have reached a pinnacle with the 5d and are looking for illusionary improvements .. you hint at noise being a problem , it can be but with a decent p/p regime even on the oldest cameras and lenses it can easily be overcome these days ... I have just bought on a whim a Nikon D300S one of the cameras I have previously owned and wish I never sold ,so I bought one for nostalgias sake . but I'm still keeping all my mirrorless gear to , and that also can be noisy at times but again curable easily in this day and age .

there is no holy grail out there unlike the days of film when everyone wanted a hasselbad but ended up with a Pentax and pretended to be David Bailey ..

my advise would be to keep and use what you have , the likes of canon and nikon and Sony could bring us all a dream camera tomorrow if they wanted to but REAL BUSINESS dictates that they just keep feeding us incremental improvements to keep the cashflow going and the interest up .

I would also keep one eye on next years developments in mirrorless both from the Panasonic/leica/sigma new system under development and also the 100 year olympus camera thats still under wraps . these days there are that many good adaptors around that you can use virtually any lenses on any system with out in a lot of cases any loss of functions
 
I would, probably in this order:
- stop worrying about your 5D4 shutter count. At the current rate of progress, it'll last for 75 years rated at 150k cycles
- if you want more reach than you're getting on full-frame, I'd try a bit of cropping first. Cropping down to 50% of the image area is the same as using a 1.4x extender in terms of framing. There are other pros and cons, but since you're starting with 30mp it may well work out pretty well - and at zero cost
- try a 1.4x extender (borrow/hire)
- if the extender doesn't do the trick, try for a longer lens (borrow/hire). Assuming Canon 300/4 is your longest lens, options might be Canon 400/5.6, Canon 100-400 Mk2, Sigma/Tamron 150-600s
- get a better APS-C body. Obvious choice is 7D Mk2 as a significant improvement over the Mk1, going for good prices ATM, and it has a very similar user-interface to your 5D4
 
I was expecting to read an " I want something lighter" thread. You've got a great camera - I have one. I had the 7D and found the noise issue too much for the indoor sport that I shoot. I upgraded with the 7D2 and used it for speed stuff and did appreciate the reach - I replaced that body with a 1Dx2 [planned for a long time once I retired and had my lump sum) but know that I won't be upgrading that when the next pre-Olympic flagship comes out as it does what I want. I agree with Richard - 2000 odd shots after a year is nothing; don't deprive yourself - you worked hard for the money. Enjoy it!
 
Having slept on this and being one to listen to good advice, I'm leaning towards just going with what I have and making better use of the TC I already have (Sigma 1.4x) when and if needed on the 5D.

I have noticed that the Sigma TC I have does seem to affect image quality a tad but that might just be me. Maybe the suggested Canon TC would be better, or nail the focus and crop.

Thanks for the replies, they all make sense and may have saved me a few pounds, as long as I don't buy another 5D as back up (jk) :LOL:.
 
I'm quite confused by your post.

You have a 5d mk4, which is the entry level pro camera, widely used and respected. A great camera.

Yet you are talking about alsorts of other lower end cameras? Whats so disappointing about your 5d? The shutter speed is fine.
The shutter count extremely low. I can shoot more than that in a single day.

So I don't get the issue with the 5d? If you want a longer reach, buy a longer telephoto.
 
pooley said:
I wouldn't bother replacing it with any of those options. Whilst they can all produce decent shots, none can touch the 5d4 for IQ, and if you have a spot on full frame image then you can crop it in to negate most, if not all, of the crop factor.

Buy a mk3 1.4x converter or put it towards a photo trip, you'll get better shots that way than buying one of those bodies

Mike
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This - the 5d4 is a wonderful wonderful camera. Buying a lesser camera is not the way to go.
 
riddell said:
I'm quite confused by your post.

You have a 5d mk4, which is the entry level pro camera, widely used and respected. A great camera.

Yet you are talking about alsorts of other lower end cameras? Whats so disappointing about your 5d? The shutter speed is fine.
The shutter count extremely low. I can shoot more than that in a single day.

So I don't get the issue with the 5d? If you want a longer reach, buy a longer telephoto.
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It's not about the 5D, I love it and it's not about the reach, I already have 400 mm with L glass and a TC too, so 560mm on FF. A point I made earlier though was that the extra reach of a crop sensor would be nice for what I do, mainly wildlife and hidework these days but the reach is not a deal breaker. I enjoy a bit of landscaping too and the wider FF angles are great for that (I have 17mm as my widest), so reach isn't the absolute governing factor for me. My intention is to look after my 5D, it has to last me a while and sometimes, hide life can be harsh, damp, cold as well as bumps and scrapes, it just seems that getting a back up to the 5D would be a good idea for my own hide, though not a crop sensor now after reading the advice here.

This comment has opened my eyes today,

" then I'm not sure why you bother with the it! Even it's best file won't be as good as your 5d4."

Every now and then, a comment comes along or you pick up on something and this comment has made me see things for what they are and it's advice I'll be taking. (y)
 
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Purely a FWIW?

I had the 7D (original) as my next step from the 40D..........I was never 100% happy with the noise it 'created' compared to the 40D [maybe now with my DxO Photolab2 I could tame it satisfactorily?] so bought the 5D3. Suffice to say I did not use the 7D again.

PS I sold the 7D and other gear including my 100-400mm MK2 to offset the cost when I switched to Olympus for wildlife etc. But still have my 5D3 and shorter zoom :)

PPS I was looking at the 5D4............but my back and my bank balance steered me to going down the MFT route ;)
 
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Box Brownie said:
Purely a FWIW?

I had the 7D (original) as my next step from the 40D..........I was never 100% happy with the noise it 'created' compared to the 40D [maybe now with my DxO Photolab2 I could tame it satisfactorily?] so bought the 5D3. Suffice to say I did not use the 7D again.

PS I sold the 7D and other gear including my 100-400mm MK2 to offset the cost when I switched to Olympus for wildlife etc. But still have my 5D3 and shorter zoom :)

PPS I was looking at the 5D4............but my back and my bank balance steered me to going down the MFT route ;)
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I made the same 'upgrade' from a 40D to a 7D. Luckily, I kept my 40D and it's a camera I'm very fond off, I dread to think what the shutter count on it is as it was my main camera during my HDR days (many moons ago) but the 40D does really struggle with the light this time of year having a max ISO of 1600, (3200 expanded) and at F5.6 @ 400mm, shutter speeds are too slow in the hide unless the subject is completely still in the current lighting conditions we get in Ayrshire this time of year.
 
Dale. said:
My intention is to look after my 5D, it has to last me a while and sometimes, hide life can be harsh, damp, cold as well as bumps and scrapes
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This is a huge reason why professionals buy a professional body.

Pro bodies are much more resilient, tougher and have a longer lasting shutter count. I used 5d's in the studio and we bump and bash them constantly, as well as shoot with them continuously each and every day. They are tough and that's why we love them. They have pretty good weather sealing as well.

As mentioned I can shoot over 2000 shots in day, that's 10,000 a week. That again is why pro bodies are a must, and why I mostly use 1 series cameras.
 
riddell said:
This is a huge reason why professionals buy a professional body.

Pro bodies are much more resilient, tougher and have a longer lasting shutter count. I used 5d's in the studio and we bump and bash them constantly, as well as shoot with them continuously each and every day. They are tough and that's why we love them. They have pretty good weather sealing as well.

As mentioned I can shoot over 2000 shots in day, that's 10,000 a week. That again is why pro bodies are a must, and why I mostly use 1 series cameras.
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A fair point, well made. (y)
 
I coset my gear, I have a 5D3 plus some L series lenses. On Tuesday I picked up my camera bag/rucksack from the kitchen "island", to my horror the 5D and the attached 24/70 dropped out, the zip was partly open (I hadnt noticed) the pair hit the floor with a horrendous bash (concrete floor). The lens needs a repair, the filter ring is severely bashed, the zoom ring is rough and I think the focus has gone off slightly, teh body however is fine, not a scratch and test shots with another lens appear to be spot on, although I will get it checked out of course. My word the 5D is a tough camera. A few bashes in a hide wouldnt concern me in the slightest, nor the damp etc, with the correct lens they are water resistant (according to Canon, so probably waterproof to a fairly high degree). Use it and enjoy it, without being morbid do you know how long you will live? Be shame if it was pristine and you werent :-)
 
MatBin said:
I coset my gear, I have a 5D3 plus some L series lenses. On Tuesday I picked up my camera bag/rucksack from the kitchen "island", to my horror the 5D and the attached 24/70 dropped out, the zip was partly open (I hadnt noticed) the pair hit the floor with a horrendous bash (concrete floor). The lens needs a repair, the filter ring is severely bashed, the zoom ring is rough and I think the focus has gone off slightly, teh body however is fine, not a scratch and test shots with another lens appear to be spot on, although I will get it checked out of course. My word the 5D is a tough camera. A few bashes in a hide wouldnt concern me in the slightest, nor the damp etc, with the correct lens they are water resistant (according to Canon, so probably waterproof to a fairly high degree). Use it and enjoy it, without being morbid do you know how long you will live? Be shame if it was pristine and you werent :)
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Oh poo, hope it all fixes up for you. (y)
 
Dale. said:
Oh poo, hope it all fixes up for you. (y)
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Me too, suppose that's my Christmas present sorted.
It could have been a lot worse, I had another body, 2 flashguns and 2 other lenses in the bag!
 
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MatBin said:
I coset my gear, I have a 5D3 plus some L series lenses. On Tuesday I picked up my camera bag/rucksack from the kitchen "island", to my horror the 5D and the attached 24/70 dropped out, the zip was partly open (I hadnt noticed) the pair hit the floor with a horrendous bash (concrete floor). The lens needs a repair, the filter ring is severely bashed, the zoom ring is rough and I think the focus has gone off slightly, teh body however is fine, not a scratch and test shots with another lens appear to be spot on, although I will get it checked out of course. My word the 5D is a tough camera. A few bashes in a hide wouldnt concern me in the slightest, nor the damp etc, with the correct lens they are water resistant (according to Canon, so probably waterproof to a fairly high degree). Use it and enjoy it, without being morbid do you know how long you will live? Be shame if it was pristine and you werent :)
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I had something similar happen - I felt instantly sick! Everybody froze in place.... My bag toppled off the table with the 100-400 attached, it hit the wooden floor as did the 16-35. Nothing would mount on the camera... 4 figure repair as the mount was warped by the impact. And we were visiting my brother in Australia. Fortunately, it was not long before we came home. I have the 1.4 III and would recommend it.
 
Chipper said:
4 figure repair
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:eek: ouch.

I've come close after leaving a bag unzipped but managed to soften the impact with a hastily positioned leg. That was my Fuji and it rolled onto the floor rather than hit it.
 
Decision made, after mulling a bit more today and taking onboard what has been said here.

I'll be staying as I am, if anything and I do get a back up camera, it would be an older FF, not a crop sensor. I think this is seeing a bit of sense. In the meantime and maybe for good, I will be (and should be) making more use of the 5D I already have. I do baby it, that's just me, my mate goes on at me about it all the time but I am a little OCD about it, it didn't come easy and I take a pride in it. On the flipside of that though, it's wasn't cheap to get the 5D and I should be using it more.

So far, it's cost me £1.53 a click. :rolleyes:

This weekend, I'm returning to my local SEO site after a lay off due to illness, I've not been there for 5 weeks. The 5D will be coming, it always would be to be fair as none of my crops can compare to it, especially in what will probably be low light at the owls. I still wouldn't mind something a bit less shiny for use in my hide but if I do, it will be FF, which my 7D will part finance.


See, I do listen, sometimes. ;)
 
When I got my 5D3 (and still to today) I cossetted it as to me it cost a fortune and I continued to use my trusty old battered 1Dmk2, but the image quality of the 3 (and now the 4) is just so much better that it's crying shame not to use it all the time. My first shots with it were of the Vulcan and when it rained I got my 1D out instead, now obviously its water resistant but not waterproof so I still wouldnt get it out in a full on downpour without some protection, but it's a tool, plain and simple and whilst I wouldnt bang nails in with it (or maybe I would now) I think it should be used as such and you seem to have come to the same conclusion.
Enjoy.
 
Dale. said:
:eek: ouch.

I've come close after leaving a bag unzipped but managed to soften the impact with a hastily positioned leg. That was my Fuji and it rolled onto the floor rather than hit it.
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Fortunately, after a tussle with the insurance company whose claims person ducked and weaved, the CEO Europe paid the bill! He was then promoted to the USA - I think that is probably why he did it! Sadly, across the board, their premiums rocketed - I checked: it wasn't just me - and we found somewhere whose terms were even better and premium was a lot lower.
 
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