A bold statement

Blank_Canvas said:
The problem with Auto modes is that it can lead to disappointment if you don't fully understand how the camera works.
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Is it not the case that using Manual mode can also lead to disappointment if you don't fully understand how the camera works in just the same ways?

I've been trying to think if there's anything extra that you might have to understand when using an auto mode compared to Manual, something a bit tricky that you wouldn't need to know if you were shooting Manual. Of course you would need to understand what the specific auto mode you've selected does. I'm not quite sure how many auto modes my camera actually has. Some of them I use so rarely that I sometimes fail to use one even when it would really help because I've forgotten how it works. So I do the best I can with the modes I remember, and try to remember that I must check the manual and practise that one again. There's something oddly different about P mode on my latest camera so I've simply given up using it, no great loss. But there are some new auto modes that it is a great loss that I don't understand.

An example of that is the multi-shot noise reduction mode of my latest camera. It's useful in dim conditions with static enough subjects when the required ISO would be annoyingly noisy, and I haven't got a tripod or any other means of stabilising the camera for a long exposure. It shoots a bunch of hand held shots, aligns the images for slight camera movements between shots, does its best to dump any bits of images that are not replicated due to movement, and adds them together to get the equivalent of a much longer shot, and lower ISO, than I could have hand held. It works very well. But given a few seconds to get an unexpected shot I can't remember how to do it. And I can't remember where I put the manual...

So is this perhaps the real attraction of Full Manual Mode? That you don't have to Read The Manual to find out how all this new-fangled stuff works? Full Manual Mode lets old geezers like me who learned manual camera use before auto modes were invented use any camera without having to read the manual. We can continue to be experts without having to look like beginners and read the f***ing manual. Using the camera in Full Manual Mode is actually NNTRTFM (No Need To Read The F***ing Manual) mode.
 
I like the latter part. :) NNTRTFM
 
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Some cameras 'only' have M on the mode dial.

Years ago, some in the camera club avoided buying cameras with an auto mode. Insisting that auto was for beginners and manual was better. I called them 'slaves to the needle'. As they had the exposure level shown in the viewfinder. And had to adjust it themselves every time the light changed.
Luckily, my old manual cameras either didn't have a meter or the needle was on the top. So when the light changed slightly, it didn't annoy you in the viewfinder and make you tweak it all the time.
 
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chris malcolm said:
Is it not the case that using Manual mode can also lead to disappointment if you don't fully understand how the camera works in just the same ways?
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I thought I already articulated this earlier:

"It really doesn't matter how you achieve the final image using whatever mode you desire as long as it the right outcome. Knowing when to use the right mode (including manual) takes a bit of knowledge, practice and experiment"
 
Blank_Canvas said:
I thought I already articulated this earlier:

"It really doesn't matter how you achieve the final image using whatever mode you desire as long as it the right outcome. Knowing when to use the right mode (including manual) takes a bit of knowledge, practice and experiment"
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Yes, of course you did. I took the opportunity of a certain turn of phrase to engage in some pedantic meditation on the topic. Probably was not only boring but came across as criticism. My apologies. Before I retired I was a professional pedant. Hard habit to break. It did however lead me to the interesting insight that some of those who heroically profess the full manual approach to professional expertise are really just finding excuses for not reading the ******* manual.
 
chris malcolm said:
Yes, of course you did. I took the opportunity of a certain turn of phrase to engage in some pedantic meditation on the topic. Probably was not only boring but came across as criticism. My apologies. Before I retired I was a professional pedant. Hard habit to break. It did however lead me to the interesting insight that some of those who heroically profess the full manual approach to professional expertise are really just finding excuses for not reading the ******* manual.
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You make a good a point Chris, Like you, I grew up with manual cameras and used everything from 35mm to 10 x 8 professionally for years. Today's multi- featured cameras with menus have become so complex (not necessarily complicated) that it is far easier (for me anyway) not to read the manual and just shoot in manual. It's a natural extension of what I've always done.

I do use other modes but am aware of the outcomes and traps and don't rely to heavily on them. I'm not from the 'I only shoot Manual' camp but I do think that if everybody had a thorough comprehension of the speed, aperture, ISO and how they are intrinsically linked then they would become more rounded photographers. That is only going to auger well capturing images.

Of course camera controls are just one aspect to learn without wishing to state the obvious but that's another subject.
 
chris malcolm said:
So is this perhaps the real attraction of Full Manual Mode? That you don't have to Read The Manual to find out how all this new-fangled stuff works? Full Manual Mode lets old geezers like me who learned manual camera use before auto modes were invented use any camera without having to read the manual. We can continue to be experts without having to look like beginners and read the f***ing manual. Using the camera in Full Manual Mode is actually NNTRTFM (No Need To Read The F***ing Manual) mode.
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:plus1:
 
surely you need a full appreciation of speed, apperture and ISO and how they are linked to use AV/TV/ or P as well...
 
big soft moose said:
surely you need a full appreciation of speed, apperture and ISO and how they are linked to use AV/TV/ or P as well...
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Exactly.

When I shoot AV mode, which is frequently, you still have to know your shutter speeds for what you are shooting, and adjust ISO etc accordingly.
 
Steve Smith said:
I only use manual mode. Not because I'm a hipster, it's just all I have.e.
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Okay - "I only use manual mode when i have a choice" has become a hipster thing... (hence the M mode T shirts posted further up which seem to imply that only using M has some cachet... rather thanit just being a tool to be used
 
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