A bit cheesed off actually!........

Jerm said:
I cannot defend anyone's attitude if they're being rude to you. However...



What a presumptuous thing to say and smacks of 'the more kit I have, the better photographer I am' which is the hallmark of amateur wannabees.

Most event photographers that are set up to cover major equestrian events are full time Pro's, not just "worked over those twenty years as a pro at various times.".

Having the kit doesn't however make you a Professional.

You should also know that, being on private land you have no given right to photograph. The photographer who has a contract to be there does, and - the point that you seem to be missing - is that she has paid for that privilege.

What if the situation was reversed? You had to pay a substantial fee to attend the event and only earn your keep by selling to the public.

Hopefully the weather was good, otherwise you'd have gone home having to pay the staff and the organisers, but not having taken any money.

Aside from the organiser’s fee, there were probably 2 or more additional photographers and sales staff employed for the day to adequately cover the event. That's quite an initial outlay for no guaranteed income, but at least you have the security of knowing that your contract with the organisers gives you exclusive commercial shooting rights to the day.

If then another photographer who has paid nothing but was still shooting other competitors, certainly without paying for the privilege - possibly without the adequate insurances etc comes along - then how would you feel about that ?

Whether you agree or not with ‘restrictive practices’ or ‘business’ as it’s otherwise known, you don’t have free reign (topical pun) to shoot at a private event where someone else has the exclusive rights to do so. I don’t shoot equestrian, but if it had been my event I would have had you evicted from the venue.

I'm afraid that in my view your entire posting - with the exception of the comments about the rudeness of the incumbent photographer - has to be viewed as unprofessional and naive.
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Welcome to Talk Photography :).
 
Why are so many of you guys so aggressive. You seem to behave like kids in a playground. Grow up for christ sake. Hitting, pussing or whatever you do to break another togs tools is not funny not clever and certainly nothing to boast about. You should be ashamed. If you don't work well under pressure and get aggressive maybe you need help controlling yourself. Try a day in my line of work and see how long you last!!!!
 
There seem to be a few threads of this nature recently, I do wonder whether underlying it all is that the profotability of doing such events is dwindling? Whether it's the economy, people valuing photos less or even amateurs encroaching is perhaps another issue.

Is the market becoming harder?
 
Dave Pickett said:
There seem to be a few threads of this nature recently, I do wonder whether underlying it all is that the profotability of doing such events is dwindling? Whether it's the economy, people valuing photos less or even amateurs encroaching is perhaps another issue.

Is the market becoming harder?
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Yes and proberbly a combination of all four points. However I dont believe this is the underlying reason for the original posters point.
 
There is a lecture on Youtube about "the rise of the amateur professional."
I have yet to watch it but the title does intrigue me, it certainly rings true in the field of photography.
 
Dave Pickett said:
There seem to be a few threads of this nature recently, I do wonder whether underlying it all is that the profotability of doing such events is dwindling? Whether it's the economy, people valuing photos less or even amateurs encroaching is perhaps another issue.

Is the market becoming harder?
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Probably a combination of all the factors, it does really make a huge difference
if you can provide images the customer must have regardless of cost, thankfully I`ve been in that position more than a few times ;)

I was at an event a short while back when one of the employed photographers
was using an entry level DSLR complete with kit lens, at his own admission he was shooting on program mode, from a brief conversation I could tell his knowledge of photography was sketchy to say the least, though he was on the minimum wage.
There are people here who have responded to this thread (which I started in a somewhat enraged state I admit) who will disregard everything I have said. I suspect many of them are new to the industry and think I`m a wanna be weekend photographer, that`s far from the truth, the fact is defend the industry by all means but accept that some professionals offer an inferior product and actually have little or no regard for the customer, just because you may have paid an event organiser to be the official photographer is no guarantee of your standards, getting off topic I know but blind loyalty is so yesterday ;)
 
flavio said:
There are people here who have responded to this thread (which I started in a somewhat enraged state I admit) who will disregard everything I have said. I suspect many of them are new to the industry and think I`m a wanna be weekend photographer, that`s far from the truth, the fact is defend the industry by all means but accept that some professionals offer an inferior product and actually have little or no regard for the customer, just because you may have paid an event organiser to be the official photographer is no guarantee of your standards, getting off topic I know but blind loyalty is so yesterday ;)
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Proberbly refering to me as I've only been a pro for 27yrs :shrug:
 
Best thing would have been to tell her the 2nd word is Off!
 
flavio said:
I was at an event a short while back when one of the employed photographers
was using an entry level DSLR complete with kit lens, at his own admission he was shooting on program mode, from a brief conversation I could tell his knowledge of photography was sketchy to say the least, though he was on the minimum wage.
There are people here who have responded to this thread (which I started in a somewhat enraged state I admit) who will disregard everything I have said. I suspect many of them are new to the industry and think I`m a wanna be weekend photographer, that`s far from the truth, the fact is defend the industry by all means but accept that some professionals offer an inferior product and actually have little or no regard for the customer, just because you may have paid an event organiser to be the official photographer is no guarantee of your standards, getting off topic I know but blind loyalty is so yesterday ;)
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dont tar everyone with that presumption brush you seem to like waving around.. :nono:
 
Having read this thread, I think you missed the opportunity to ask her WHY she suddenly pulled up in her car, obviously singling you out, and whether a competitor or one of her togs had drawn her attention to you. That could have resulted in a more collaborative and professional conversation. Especially since you were obviously taking 'professional' shots for one competitor - which would kind of set you aside from me, for example, wandering around with my camera and no idea of what I am doing!

I am far below 'new to the industry' in the whole pecking order and have no interest in going to the sort of events you frequent, BTW, just thinking that your prior 'knowledge' and irritation may have led you to not gain a better understanding at the time so as to avoid potential conflict in the future and, secondly, to have under-estimated the responses you may get on the thread you started.

Of course, this thread is pointless without photos!!!!! :D:D:D
 
snapzz said:
Proberbly refering to me as I've only been a pro for 27yrs :shrug:
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Hi
no I wasn`t actually, and I do admit my original post, as I confessed was written whilst still in a state of anger.
I`m not out to make enemies and as I have stated elsewhere in this thread I do have a lot of respect for full time pro photographers, just wish they didn`t vent their anger and frustrations on me, they really need to be honest and address why their customers are not buying their images, quality usually sells itself I have found over a period of approx twenty years!

wish you well
Cheers
 
neil_g said:
dont tar everyone with that presumption brush you seem to like waving around.. :nono:
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Hi Neil
actually I don`t tar anyone with any brush, I was merely relaying a recent experience!
Regards
 
~Sam~ said:
Having read this thread, I think you missed the opportunity to ask her WHY she suddenly pulled up in her car, obviously singling you out, and whether a competitor or one of her togs had drawn her attention to you. That could have resulted in a more collaborative and professional conversation. Especially since you were obviously taking 'professional' shots for one competitor - which would kind of set you aside from me, for example, wandering around with my camera and no idea of what I am doing!

I am far below 'new to the industry' in the whole pecking order and have no interest in going to the sort of events you frequent, BTW, just thinking that your prior 'knowledge' and irritation may have led you to not gain a better understanding at the time so as to avoid potential conflict in the future and, secondly, to have under-estimated the responses you may get on the thread you started.



Of course, this thread is pointless without photos!!!!! :D:D:D
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Hi Sam

thanks for your comments.
I didn`t miss an opportunity, the woman drove off at speed and chose to ignore my respectfully asked question.
Had she had the decency to introduce herself I`m sure the situation could have had a better outcome, as it was she was of a particular mindset that I was a hindrance. Her loss and I`m afraid I wont bother being polite to her in the future unless she acts in a more civilised manner.
I can assure you I am one of the least offensive people you could meet, I always make a real effort to be friendly, in future I`ll perhaps just ignore any such advances.
Regards
 
flavio said:
I didn`t miss an opportunity, the woman drove off at speed and chose to ignore my respectfully asked question.
Had she had the decency to introduce herself I`m sure the situation could have had a better outcome, as it was she was of a particular mindset that I was a hindrance.
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Sorry, I clearly missed, not only in your OP but subsequent replies, the fact that she kind of swooped in and then drove off at high speed. I must have focused on her rapid approach and failed to notice her equally rapid exit. :thinking:

Either way, you seem to have two examples of poor communication to deal with. ;)

Hope things go better for you next time. :)
 
if you are asked by someome to take photos of an event, they may be not happy with the offical photographer (ether quaility or atitude). you could claim exclusive rights to the person asking you to take the photos.

i beleive in respect. Dont show dont get

Cheers Steve
 
steve_lyt said:
if you are asked by someome to take photos of an event, they may be not happy with the offical photographer (ether quaility or atitude). you could claim exclusive rights to the person asking you to take the photos.
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but the official photographer (good or not) has a responsibility in most cases to get photos of every competitor for the organisers as they usually want photos of the class winners for their promo use.

i certainly wouldnt stop shooting in favour of another tog, whos to say the client/competitor wouldnt prefer my shots ;)
 
they really need to be honest and address why their customers are not buying their images
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How do you know that their images weren't selling ? You think that the incumbent photographer accosted you because her images weren't selling ?

just because you may have paid an event organiser to be the official photographer is no guarantee of your standards
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Absolutely correct. However, firstly, quality of the images wasn't the point of your posting.

Secondly, event photographer live by their direct sales. If the images arent any good, then they go home out of pocket. Like in all genres, there will be people that chance their arm as amateurs, but they soon find out the reality. This is equally, if not more valid in other genres of photography.

but accept that some professionals offer an inferior product and actually have little or no regard for the customer
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Quite right - it happens in all genres of photography and in most professions.

I can assure you I am one of the least offensive people you could meet
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If your way of being non offensive is to ignore professional etiquette, take photos where you're not allowed to and to insinuate that event photographers offer a sub standard product then I'm afraid, on the insight I've had to your character from this thread I can't agree with that statement.
 
at his own admission he was shooting on program mode
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What's wrong with program mode? Perfect mode for the job sometimes.

There are people here who have responded to this thread (which I started in a somewhat enraged state I admit) who will disregard everything I have said.
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Disagreeing is not disregarding.

I suspect many of them are new to the industry and think I`m a wanna be weekend photographer
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No one said that and no one insinuated that. Someone feels threatened very easily here.

but accept that some professionals offer an inferior product and actually have little or no regard for the customer, just because you may have paid an event organiser to be the official photographer is no guarantee of your standards
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So what? You might well be better than the present photographer, but your skill does not grant you right to undermine the contracted photographer. Yes, we would like to think that professionals are good at what they do, at least better than average, but it's simply ridiculous to expect someone to be better than anyone else who could possibly show up.

Like I said before, the skill of the professional has very little to do with anything here. Whether or not you are better than her, you still pose a threat to her business and appear to be violating the terms of her contract. People don't always go for the best thing on offer and a lower-quality product at a lower price is sometimes the more attractive option. In short, the quality of anyone's photography is irrelevant in this argument.
 
flavio said:
I`m not running along to report to another professional photographer my presence, it could be misconstrued as arrogance on my part.
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That is the one thing that would not be misconstrued as arrogance, the rest of your postings however most likely would be. You demand courtesey but give none - ever heard of a two way street?

As has been pointed out to you your actions potentially make the contract between photographer and organiser void - explain that to the organisers.

Mike
 
maybe both parties where at fault.

1) either you or your client should have asked the organisers.

2) the resident tog should have been more polite.

i alway make sure that i have clearence for taking photos , and find a person running the event on any restrictions. I myself take exception to rudeness, from anyone. There are ways of handling situations, this is one of the photography skills.

perhaps the oganiser should put something up, saying something like "would all privately commisioned photographers please goto the admin point"

Cheers Steve
 
How can he be at fault if she gave him no chance to converse with her? Shouting about is not a way to conduct yourself. You represent your company at the event, as do all your staff, so if you believe shouting at people from your car is a way to behave then I disagree, sure if any people at the event saw her they would be disgusted, and not bought from her due to her attitude.

He was walking around the site with a camera! No mention of accessing areas he was not meant to be. How many times has it been said on here that just because you have a dslr that you are not a threat to the pro there and that it is the same as any other, yet here you all are burning him at the stake because he dared to take a dslr to an event where there was a "PRO" how dare he!

Grow up.
 
all i was trying to say that if he had told the event organiser what he was doing there , he could have said to the photographer i have informed the organisers of what im doing here.

the resident photographer was out of order, for what he did , and should have been complained about to the organiser. Like has been said he was representing the event organiser and should have had a more proffessional manner.

when i do events , i make sure either i get clearence or my client gets the ok.

even then i introduce myself to the organisers stating my intensions. and have never had problems

Cheers Steve
 
ding76uk said:
He was walking around the site with a camera! No mention of accessing areas he was not meant to be.
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Sorry,

but we have one side of the situation presented and he is hardly likely to state that he was out of order or doing something that he should not - I would love to hear the other sides version which may or may not present a totally different picture.

Mike
 
I think a bit of understading on both sides of the argument would help. From what I understand Equestrian Photographers can be very protective, it can be very cut throat.
 
Guys - can you please hold on for a moment? I ran out of popcorn and need to get some more. Back in a mo!

:exit:
 
I can't speak about equestrian but in rugby events I'm normally wearing my clubs t-shirt and chat to the official event photographers, partially so they know why I'm there and partially just to chat to other photographers. Always good for tips :D

I find it just helps to stop any misunderstandings and on a couple of occasions has led to offers of work.
 
There is absolutely no reason why we as photographers can not devise our own set of ethics / code of conduct of how we deal with each other. Personally if I were doing as the OP suggested they were doing I would have gone along and stated what i was doing and given a business card - the photographer that is covering the event can then check if they wish that I have not made images for sales, may consider using me in the future and builds up mutual respect and trust.

Mike
 
dubcat said:
Guys - can you please hold on for a moment? I ran out of popcorn and need to get some more. Back in a mo!

:exit:[/QUOTE

Popcorn? At this time of day? Make sure you brush your teeth after.:lol:
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MARK AMIES said:
dubcat said:
Guys - can you please hold on for a moment? I ran out of popcorn and need to get some more. Back in a mo!

:exit:[/QUOTE

Popcorn? At this time of day? Make sure you brush your teeth after.:lol:
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Hehehe well the drama was too much for me - i couldn't resist. This is better than anything to come out of hollywood in recent times :)
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mike weeks said:
There is absolutely no reason why we as photographers can not devise our own set of ethics / code of conduct of how we deal with each other. Personally if I were doing as the OP suggested they were doing I would have gone along and stated what i was doing and given a business card - the photographer that is covering the event can then check if they wish that I have not made images for sales, may consider using me in the future and builds up mutual respect and trust.

Mike
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agreed.
 
flavio said:
Wrong, the event photographer there is a friend of mine!
Cheers
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Purston Manor, Lovely place to photograph I go there all the time with my camera (for private use and to take photos of friends for them:shrug:) and we used to compete there also.

Wonder if we will be allowed any cameras in at Blenheim Horse Trials then ???????

They will be confiscating thousands if they do LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
As a regular equine tog (twice a week minimum) I am yet to encounter someone like the OP. I regularly get people photographing their mates, videoing etc. It doesn't bother me one bit. If someone was obviously taking pot shots at everyone though I would have a quiet word, not happened yet though :)
 
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