A-1 or F-1???

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tysing

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ok, what's peoples opinions on the two cameras? I am making my first 35mm slr a classic one... to then maybe be updated with a T90 or one of the Eos series.
As i understand it the F-1 (and all variations) is a great fully manual and mechanical camera, which wont allow auto exposure??? without additional prisms??. The A-1 is an electrical auto exposure camera.
My question's are will i be able to override the A-1's system, and will i be able to use any of my existing canon lenses on any of these cameras. of course without af.
 
tysing said:
My question's are will i be able to override the A-1's system,

Yes - it was basically one of the first cameras with the now familiar P A S M modes...

and will i be able to use any of my existing canon lenses on any of these cameras. of course without af.

Not really no, even if you get a mechanical adaptor that'd allow you to mount EF lenses on FD bodies (i've seen adaptors to to the opposite, but not that way around) there would be no way of controlling your aperture setting on the lens - so the lens would just be wide open all the time - all stopping down on EF lenses is via elektrikery!! Fortunately FD and FDn lenses are pretty cheap, mainly because they're a swine to use on modern EF bodies - as the register distance is so different to the EF Mount, Adaptors either have to have lensess built into them (making them in effect a short teleconverter - say 1.1x or 1.2x and losing a little light in the process) or if without a lens, you lose the ability to focus to infinity - fine for a macro lens, not a whole lot of good for a 300mm F2.8 :lol:
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wouldn't stop me buying a F-1 though, and didn't stop me buying a A-1 and a whole bunch of FD glass to go with it...
 
You can go fully manual on the a-1 with the flick of a switch :) you won't be able to use your modern lenses as they don't have an aperture ring, which isn't a massive issue because FD glass can be very cheap :) I bought a 50mm for £17 and a 28mm for £20, both proper canon ones.

Hope this helps
Rob
 
Damn TBY beats me to it, sodding phone keyboard :D
 
thanx, In that case... i guess i'm leaning towards the a-1, although i wonder why i've seen them for sale at a slightly lower price than the new f-1.
also, if i cannot take advantage of any of the L glass i have now, would it be worth buying a different system all together. on average from what i've read, most people seem to agree the (bloody :) ) nikon 35mms are superior to most competitors. F series i'm guessing.
I currently shoot with a 5dmkii and mainly L glass or 50 1.4. sort i want to get the best optical capabilities i can, but dont really want to spend more than £100. but could be persuaded if justified! :)
 
The A-1 is a wonderful camera....... if you use it in an auto mode.

There is no aperture readout from the lens in the viewfinder of an A-1 so when you use it as an all manual camera, you have to take your eye off the viewfinder to set the aperture on the lens. The viewfinder will give you the aperture that matches the shutter speed but you cannot make adjustments by just looking through the viewfinder. I got more, much more as a manual camera out of my old Pentax MX. For that reason I would get the F-1. It also has superior build and being a later model will presumably have improved electronics etc.
 
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tysing said:
thanx, In that case... i guess i'm leaning towards the a-1, although i wonder why i've seen them for sale at a slightly lower price than the new f-1.
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At best, the A-1 was a "prosumer"/"enthusiast" level camera. The F-1 was their top of the range professional 35mm SLR, to compete with the top film SLR from Nikon (the primary choice of most pro film togs at the time). Additionally, far more A-1s were manufactured. These two things explain the price difference.
 
excalibur2 said:
Indeed, although owning a T90 I think the A1 is very good (and the only "A" model camera I would recommend)
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Thanks for quoting me Mr Excalibur but that as you know was only half the story. ;)

You're right in that the A-1 was about the only worthwhile A series body. It was an excellent auto camera but somewhat wanting if you needed to use the manual mode.

The F-1 is a better proposition in every way.
 
Houston1863 said:
Thanks for quoting me Mr Excalibur but that as you know was only half the story. ;)

You're right in that the A-1 was about the only worthwhile A series body. It was an excellent auto camera but somewhat wanting if you needed to use the manual mode.
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The way around these sort of cameras is to take the lens off "A" and you can have 1/1000 to 30 secs. ;) that's better than the competition like a Minolta X-700. But if anyone wants a F1, I wouldn't say don't get it :)
 
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Hmm... Dilemmas!!! I've heard good thing about classic minolta slr's, just wondering on the comparison of glass, between canon, Olympus, minolta, and pentax. Including price and availability of lenses and their optical ability. And whether it's worth getting something with leica screw mount!
 
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tysing said:
Hmm... Dilemmas!!! I've heard good thing about classic minolta slr's, just wondering on the comparison of glass, between canon, Olympus, minolta, and pentax. Including price and availability of lenses and their optical ability. And whether it's worth getting something with leica screw mount!
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For the big names if you say picked a period between 1975 -1980 I'd say you would be hard pressed to see a difference in resolution for the ordinary consumer lenses, but there is probably small differences in Bokeh and pop.
If you compared say a lens from the 50-60s to a lens in the 70-80s or even today, that's when more fun starts.
 
tysing said:
Hmm... Dilemmas!!! I've heard good thing about classic minolta slr's, just wondering on the comparison of glass, between canon, Olympus, minolta, and pentax.
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Many of the prime designs are classic, relatively simple optical formulae, which can often be seen in various guises even in modern lenses (albeit with improved modern coatings, and various abbreviated lens elements). The new one is slightly different, but the Nikon autofocusing 50mm lens shared the same optical formula as the manual focus versions.
 
I think it depends on why you want the camera. The fact that you say you want a 'classic' tells me you really want the F-1! I have a 'New F-1' with the standard (non-AE) prism, so it's actually less capable in this form than the A-1.

The F-1 is certainly the more classic of the two though but Canon's bizarre (daft) naming scheme means it's difficult to find what you want in a minefield of F-1, New F-1, F-1n, etc. Like the F3 and LX it was a proper system camera with interchangeable backs, finders, drives...

I would really like a nice (non-breach lock) 50/1.4 and the motordrive to go with mine. In practice, it's not very nice to use; on a par with the Nikon F3 but nowhere near as good as the Pentax LX.

In terms of glass, the Pentax 50/1.4 is considered by some as on a par with the Zeiss (though the M is perhaps not as good as the earlier (larger) K and Takumar models).

I think if you read this, you'll probably want an F-1 over an A': http://www.mir.SPAM/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/index.htm ;)
 
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The Canon A1 was one of the very first multi mode cameras as has already been pointed out. I had a minter for ages but sold it to a fellow member here on TP. It's without doubt one of the best looking cameras Canon ever produced and I loved the simplicity of the red LED numeral display in the viewfinder. I always found the controls for switching modes very fiddly, but this was before the pretty well universal mode dial was introduced and the A1 was breaking new ground at the time.

I now have a Canon F1N which is built like a tank and probably the finest quality film camera Canon produced. It was a top end pro camera targeted to compete with the Nikon F3. The viewfinder is the best I've seen and manual focusing is the easiest I've experienced- also the split image centre spot doesn't black out even when you stop down.

The F1N will do aperture priority with a suitable prism fitted and shutter priority with either a motor drive or power winder attached. Go for a later version such as the F1N which takes modern batteries while the earlier versions don't - they use old mercury batteries you can no longer get.

Canon A1s were sold in thousands and there are always plenty on the market so it's difficult to get a good price - even for a mint one. If you're buying though, you can afford to be choosy - it's a buyer's market.

The F1N cost a fortune in it's time and they still command a premium the only cheap ones you see will have had a hard life.

If the battery dies in the A1 it's a paper weight while with a dead battery the FiN still has mechanical speeds from 1/90th (X sync speed) to 1/2000th and 'B'. You just have to yank out the dead battery, then carry on shooting.
 
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If you really want to use your modern AF 'L' lenses btw, the body you should really be looking at is the EOS3 - stonkingly good camera with 45 AF points and you can pick them up very reasonably.
 
CT said:
If you really want to use your modern AF 'L' lenses btw, the body you should really be looking at is the EOS3 - stonkingly good camera with 45 AF points and you can pick them up very reasonably.
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:plusone:

The EOS 3 is a stunning camera - well worth seeking out a good one at some stage.
 
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CT said:
If the battery dies in the A1 it's a paper weight while with a dead battery the FiN still has mechanical speeds from 1/90th (X sync speed) to 1/2000th and 'B'. You just have to yank out the dead battery, then carry on shooting.
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I do enjoy using an A-1, but that reminds me that, while even the 'old' F-1 went to 1/2000 sec, the A-1's shutter maxes out at 1/1000 sec, which is occasionally limiting and still a surprising design choice by Canon.

edit: as an all-rounder, the A-1 is great. It's light and compact. Full manual isn't perhaps its greatest strength, but I tend to favour Aperture Priority most of the time, so it's less of an issue for me.

The T90 and EOS 3 are magnificent technology, but they are much bulkier and heavier.

FWIW, I do know from a friend's misfortune back around 1980 that an A-1 won't survive being dropped off the side of the Great Wall of China. With an F-1, it might stand a chance. :-)
 
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In a camera with so many automatic modes, maybe the expectation was that the microprocessor would just stop down further to get correct exposures, rather than having to build a stronger shutter with stronger springs to get to 1/2000s.
 
Musicman said:
I do enjoy using an A-1, but that reminds me that, while even the 'old' F-1 went to 1/2000 sec, the A-1's shutter maxes out at 1/1000 sec, which is occasionally limiting and still a surprising design choice by Canon.
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...and the only minus I can think of so far (for the A1) is that the flash sync speed is only 1/60 sec, mind you the X-700 and many other cameras were the same.
 
CT said:
The Canon A1 was one of the very first multi mode cameras as has already been pointed out. I had a minter for ages but sold it to a fellow member here on TP. It's without doubt one of the best looking cameras Canon ever produced and I loved the simplicity of the red LED numeral display in the viewfinder. I always found the controls for switching modes very fiddly, but this was before the pretty well universal mode dial was introduced and the A1 was breaking new ground at the time.

I now have a Canon F1N which is built like a tank and probably the finest quality film camera Canon produced. It was a top end pro camera targeted to compete with the Nikon F3. The viewfinder is the best I've seen and manual focusing is the easiest I've experienced- also the split image centre spot doesn't black out even when you stop down.

The F1N will do aperture priority with a suitable prism fitted and shutter priority with either a motor drive or power winder attached. Go for a later version such as the F1N which takes modern batteries while the earlier versions don't - they use old mercury batteries you can no longer get.

Canon A1s were sold in thousands and there are always plenty on the market so it's difficult to get a good price - even for a mint one. If you're buying though, you can afford to be choosy - it's a buyer's market.

The F1N cost a fortune in it's time and they still command a premium the only cheap ones you see will have had a hard life.

If the battery dies in the A1 it's a paper weight while with a dead battery the FiN still has mechanical speeds from 1/90th (X sync speed) to 1/2000th and 'B'. You just have to yank out the dead battery, then carry on shooting.
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Hi, my mum gave me her A1 and its fine camera. Question about the battery though, it can be replaced so how is it a dead weight if it dies?
 
jonneymendoza said:
Hi, my mum gave me her A1 and its fine camera. Question about the battery though, it can be replaced so how is it a dead weight if it dies?
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Because not everyone has the presence of mind to carry a spare battery with them? I have to admit, with something like the A-1 it's simple enough to take a battery, wrap it in clingfilm, and then attach it to the camera strap with a length of black gaffa tape. With something like my EOS-3, the 2CR5's are a bit big for that trick, and it's really down to remembering to leave a battery in the camera case.
 
TheBigYin said:
Because not everyone has the presence of mind to carry a spare battery with them? I have to admit, with something like the A-1 it's simple enough to take a battery, wrap it in clingfilm, and then attach it to the camera strap with a length of black gaffa tape. With something like my EOS-3, the 2CR5's are a bit big for that trick, and it's really down to remembering to leave a battery in the camera case.
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How do i know if the battery has ran out? i just had a quick go on mine today and notice the small Red LED's that tell me aparture and shutter values in the view finder dont appear anymore? it still clicks and apparently takes shots but dont know if battery is dead?

Also, how many pics can u take on a typical role of film? i bought a fujifilm X-tra Superiia 36Exp 400. doesnt say how much shots i can take?
 
i just had a quick go on mine today and notice the small Red LED's that tell me aparture and shutter values in the view finder dont appear anymore?
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There's a switch between the prism and the ASA dial which turns off the the viewfinder display. Make sure that the white dot is visible to enable the display.

Also, how many pics can u take on a typical role of film? i bought a fujifilm X-tra Superiia 36Exp 400
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36 I suppose. You might get 37 at a push.
 
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cheers, thanks mate.

anyways i just borked the film that was in there. tried to rewind the thing and the film broke . just saw this video and looks like i had to press a button on the bottom of the camera before rewinding it :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xrU4JtqJzk&feature=related

Probably screwed now the film aint it or can some of the film surface that wasnt exposed to the light be salvage?
 
Probably screwed now the film aint it or can some of the film surface that wasnt exposed to the light be salvage?
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If you opened the back, then the film is ruined. If it's still in the camera you could remove it in a darkroom/changing bag and put it in a light tight (i.e. old style black) film pot. Finding someone to process it then will be a problem though.
P.S. The batteries last for months or years even. Alkaline batteries are fine
 
jonneymendoza said:
Also, how many pics can u take on a typical role of film? i bought a fujifilm X-tra Superiia 36Exp 400. doesnt say how much shots i can take?
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36, that's what the 36Exp refers to, 36 exposures.
 
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NickT said:
If you opened the back, then the film is ruined. If it's still in the camera you could remove it in a darkroom/changing bag and put it in a light tight (i.e. old style black) film pot. Finding someone to process it then will be a problem though.
P.S. The batteries last for months or years even. Alkaline batteries are fine
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yea i opened the back to see what happened lol :bonk:

So rule number 1.

never open the back during shooting and wait till the roll is finished and rewinded back to the reel?
 
TheBigYin said:
I have to admit, with something like the A-1 it's simple enough to take a battery, wrap it in clingfilm, and then attach it to the camera strap with a length of black gaffa tape.
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I seem to remember a plastic spare battery holder being attached to the strap that came with my AV-1, though I'm less sure about there being one for the A-1.
 
Musicman said:
I seem to remember a plastic spare battery holder being attached to the strap that came with my AV-1, though I'm less sure about there being one for the A-1.
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A few cameras used to have them (or at least they were sold as accessories BITD) when it was just a button-cell for the metering, but by the A-1 the battery is already growing - I forget the type no. but it's a bit like a AAA battery only half the length - still blends in nicely/barely noticeably under a bit of gaffa, though ;)
 
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