911 twin towers

Selkie said:
The first moon landings were faked, and 9/11 was a sick government plot.

That's what I think anyway :shake:
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It's almost unimaginable that a government would sanction or even allow the slaughter of it's own citizens, but there is well documented evidence that the CIA were aware that an attack was being planned and the likely timeframe.

With hindsight, the fact that Bush used 911 as a convenient excuse to avenge Saddam's "victory" over his father, could lend credence to the theory that the CIA were well aware that the 911 attacks were to take place and that there would be "acceptable" loss of life when the planes hit the towers, but this would allow a war to be waged on Saddam. I doubt however that anyone involved in such a potential scenario would ever have dreamt that both towers would collapse in the way they did....
 
I'm with Flash on this, I can't see how anyone would let happen what actually did happen, I think they got it wrong if they did in fact know about it and allow it to happen thinking there would have been any other result.

Then again could anyone be stupid enough to think that if you fly two jumbo jets into a skyscraper there would have been any other outcome?
 
It is interesting if you search for 911 there are many websites with evidence "proving" and "diss-proving" the official story - will we ever get the full truth?

this raises some questions

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm

another good one is where did the Thermate in the (twin tower) rubble come from?


some good questions are raised here
http://www.ae911truth.org/wtc7.php
 
sportysnaps said:
another good one is where did the Thermate in the (twin tower) rubble come from?
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The Swiss. They make a mean chocolate bar and also like to get involved with global conspiracies just for kicks.
 
so we're to believe that this is a massive government conspiricy to allow them to go to war and also to gain more 'control' over thier own citizens.


im not truely sure that i buy it..... after all to create a plot to 'kidnap' 4 jumbos full of people, to control and mastermind their flying into various buildings, leading to massive loss of life would require such a massive amount of people to 'be in on it' (those at the top 'in control' right down to the emergency services who had to clear up the mess afterwards, right through to the accident investigation team who would also have to 'be in on it' (we're talking hundreds of people here folks!) and yet not one of them has come forwards with the truth in 7 years!

as ive said i dont buy it!
 
sportysnaps said:
It is interesting if you search for 911 there are many websites with evidence "proving" and "diss-proving" the official story - will we ever get the full truth?

this raises some questions

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm

another good one is where did the Thermate in the (twin tower) rubble come from?


some good questions are raised here
http://www.ae911truth.org/wtc7.php
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how many americans actually know the sound a missile makes and could tell the difference from a low flying jet aeroplane passing them? 560mph is damn fast if something passes you at close quarters, i doubt you'd be able to actually see what went past.
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-hole.html

also when the plane full of people dissapeared what happened to it (if it indeed was a missile that hit the pentagon they would need to get rid of the plane) did they fly it into an airport, livery it up as an oceanic aeroplane and fly it off into the pacific ocean (and record the survivors) and call it 'lost' :shrug:


am i the only one that loves these consipiricy theorists who seem to work on the fact that if 'they aint seen evidence' to prove something happened means that it must not have, even if they cant prove otherwise (due to lack of evidence supporting their conspiricy theory)!
 
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whitewash said:
so we're to believe that this is a massive government conspiricy to allow them to go to war and also to gain more 'control' over thier own citizens.


im not truely sure that i buy it..... after all to create a plot to 'kidnap' 4 jumbos full of people, to control and mastermind their flying into various buildings, leading to massive loss of life would require such a massive amount of people to 'be in on it' (those at the top 'in control' right down to the emergency services who had to clear up the mess afterwards, right through to the accident investigation team who would also have to 'be in on it' (we're talking hundreds of people here folks!) and yet not one of them has come forwards with the truth in 7 years!

as ive said i dont buy it!
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neither do i - back to the question - where did the thermate come from?
 
For those that don't know, thermite is an explosive incendiary compud, used primarily in incendiary grenades and bombs.

And for those unsure of incendiary, it means something can burns like hell, spread with explosive force, losely speaking.
 
ChrisMClark said:
For those that don't know, thermite is an explosive incendiary compud, used primarily in incendiary grenades and bombs.

And for those unsure of incendiary, it means something can burns like hell, spread with explosive force, losely speaking.
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no problem so the plane was packed full of thermite and explosive - ok this works for me - no need to the government to be involved...

good old suicide car bomb - but bigger

how did it get on the plane?
 
Sorry sporty I wasn't clear, I wasn't nessecarily saying that the planes were packed full of it, I was more trying to give people an idea of what Thermite actually is so they can speculate ;) :lol:

I think if there was enough of it to trace in that much rubble, then you must be looking at one hella large quantity of it to begin with.
 
is thermite not also used in the joining of railway line sections (as well as id have thought structures comprised of similar materials?) together? (my memory of GCSE chemistry is a little shakey)

could this 'evidence' of thermite not have been left over in and on the girders used within the towers construction?
 
Thermite was used for this, though I'm not sure if it is anymore. But with the age of the WTC then that's entirely feasible. Although thermite was used to generate heat to fuse metal together, I'm not sure whether there'd be anough to find a residue without going to stupidly small sizes. Perhaps Sporty could elaborate a little on the quantities they found?
 
there is video evidence of molten metal pouring out of the building and also in the basement - the fuel from the plane could not burn hot enough to do this.
my guess is it (something to cause this) was on the plane and in large quantities. as i said right at the start there are some unanswered questions - I don't believe all of the theories that are out there and "getting rid of a plane full of people" does not wash with me.
 
dont buy it, sorry. molten metal? airconditioning ducts are thin and flimsy metal, fuel fire will melt those with no problem at all. Lets not forget, a jumbo jet almost full of fuel was crashed into an office block, so you had the fuel and flammable materials that would burn.

the construction of the building was such that once a couple of floors were damaged and the mountings holding the concrete floors to the structure broke, the building would collapse exactly as it did, there was a fantastic documentary on this a couple of years ag on ch4, the architect was distraught as he designed the buildings to take a small aricraft hit, he never foresaw that anyone would fly a plane in.

I dont have a lot of time for these conspiracy theories, if the yanks wanted to go Rambo on Iraq, they would have come up with something.

Pentagon impact...pentagon is made of solid stuff, the jumbo hit the thing at 500+ mph, again full of fuel, what was it going to do? Youve seen cars that have hit other cars at 70mph! dont forget, the wings are full of fuel on a plane, they will have been destroyed in an explosion, while the fusalage would have crumpled up to nothing while going into the struture.

Conspiracy? Only in as much as some of these conspiracy theorists need a new hobby
 
ChrisMClark said:
Thermite was used for this, though I'm not sure if it is anymore. But with the age of the WTC then that's entirely feasible. Although thermite was used to generate heat to fuse metal together, I'm not sure whether there'd be anough to find a residue without going to stupidly small sizes. Perhaps Sporty could elaborate a little on the quantities they found?
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http://www.ae911truth.org/twintowers.php

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/metallurgy/index.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/residues.html
 
matty said:
dont buy it, sorry. molten metal? airconditioning ducts are thin and flimsy metal, fuel fire will melt those with no problem at all. Lets not forget, a jumbo jet almost full of fuel was crashed into an office block, so you had the fuel and flammable materials that would burn.

the construction of the building was such that once a couple of floors were damaged and the mountings holding the concrete floors to the structure broke, the building would collapse exactly as it did, there was a fantastic documentary on this a couple of years ag on ch4, the architect was distraught as he designed the buildings to take a small aricraft hit, he never foresaw that anyone would fly a plane in.

I dont have a lot of time for these conspiracy theories, if the yanks wanted to go Rambo on Iraq, they would have come up with something.

Pentagon impact...pentagon is made of solid stuff, the jumbo hit the thing at 500+ mph, again full of fuel, what was it going to do? Youve seen cars that have hit other cars at 70mph! dont forget, the wings are full of fuel on a plane, they will have been destroyed in an explosion, while the fusalage would have crumpled up to nothing while going into the struture.

Conspiracy? Only in as much as some of these conspiracy theorists need a new hobby
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i saw this documentary as well, it was very interesting.


the whole pentagon thing is daft, of course planes fuselage would punch a whole circa 20ft across into a wall, the fuselage itself is only about 15ft diameter! the wings would have crumpled in (the wings are designed to be strong along the vertical axis to deal with normal flight forces, such strength would not be required in other axis) and the fuel fire would have probably have disposed of the majority of the debris.
 
matty said:
dont buy it, sorry. molten metal? airconditioning ducts are thin and flimsy metal, fuel fire will melt those with no problem at all. Lets not forget, a jumbo jet almost full of fuel was crashed into an office block, so you had the fuel and flammable materials that would burn.

the construction of the building was such that once a couple of floors were damaged and the mountings holding the concrete floors to the structure broke, the building would collapse exactly as it did, there was a fantastic documentary on this a couple of years ag on ch4, the architect was distraught as he designed the buildings to take a small aricraft hit, he never foresaw that anyone would fly a plane in.

I dont have a lot of time for these conspiracy theories, if the yanks wanted to go Rambo on Iraq, they would have come up with something.

Pentagon impact...pentagon is made of solid stuff, the jumbo hit the thing at 500+ mph, again full of fuel, what was it going to do? Youve seen cars that have hit other cars at 70mph! dont forget, the wings are full of fuel on a plane, they will have been destroyed in an explosion, while the fusalage would have crumpled up to nothing while going into the struture.

Conspiracy? Only in as much as some of these conspiracy theorists need a new hobby
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i saw the same documentary and really felt for the guy - he felt responsible for so many deaths. If i remember they basically said that the central lift shaft was the design fault and those that could get to the off center stairwells could get out of the building - and many did - those that could only get to the central one could not escape.

the documentary explained why the building collapsed - it did not explain the evidence of the the very high temperatures (much higher then the planes fuel)

Pentagon impact...pentagon is made of solid stuff, the jumbo hit the thing at 500+ mph, again full of fuel, what was it going to do?
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make a hole - i would think a big one - i would expect it to mess up the lawn as well - the video i watched asked the question why did it not do these things?
 
high temperatures in the core of the building would be the same reason you get potash out of a bonfire, the heat is intense, the fire is covered with rubble but not starved of oxygen, the interior keeps burning away, and gets hotter as there is nothing to cool it down...
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Just because something appears on television doesn't mean it's the truth......
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Well exactly. How can we really expect to know what's happened after watching a few TV programmes? We eat what the media feeds us then claim to be knowledgable on the subject. It's terribly ignorant.

The other thing that makes me shake my head in disbelief is when people say the US Government would never do such a thing to its own people. Its own people? How much did Bush really have in common with the average American?

We're always ready to believe that a terrorist from the Middle East, a place most of us have never been, has decided to come over to our country and kill hundreds, in this case thousands of people but if it's somebody from the West in a position of power then they couldn't possibly do such a thing? :shrug:

I don't totally 'buy' any of the conspiracy theories that I've read about or watched about. However, I don't buy the widely accepted version of events either. I do think it's very important to keep an open mind.
 
To put the activities of the American government into context, in the late 70s/early80s the CIA were running a sting operation to catch a group smuggling cocaine in to the US. They set up a front company and bought the cocaine from the druglords to allow their agents to play the part of US drug dealers and capture the main players.

However, after a while, some bright spark realised that the CIA were now sitting on a rather large stockpile of illegal drugs, worth millions and millions on the streets and had a convenient source for more , which could generate funds for the clandestine Iran-Contra operations.

So, rather than destroy the drugs they had already, the CIA simply sold them on and imported more....
 
cressers said:
Go to youtube and search for loose change. This is the documentary - some interesting points.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yx9NRX37SM
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well i have just watched the whole thing (abound 1 and half hours) i think the evidence relating to the pentagon is very well thought out, Where did the titanium go?




the plane was put into a very steep dive and going way faster than its design allowed (the guy didnt throttle back and lower flaps like you would on coming into land). It was probably breaking up before it even hit the ground.
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so the bits that broke off would be all around - where are they?

2 12 ton engines do not just vanish- titanium has a high melting point and is very strong
 
sportysnaps said:
well i have just watched the whole thing (abound 1 and half hours) i think the evidence relating to the pentagon is very well thought out, Where did the titanium go?
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The F-reg Transit parked round the back might have something to do with it....

2212876566_c91a361782.jpg
 
I have no way of knowing where the engines are, maybe they continued on into the centre of the building like the undercarriage :shrug: (see the link I posted above)

What I don't get about this whole 911 conspiracy is why the twin towers? why didn't they just go for something simple like blowing up shopping malls or football stadiums and save all the hassle of remote controlled planes, cruise missiles and the controlled detonations of buildings?


I'm off to watch Loose Change...
 
Annoyingly not. The people in it are all actors. ET is actually real but its just a fictional movie that they made while he stayed here on Earth.
 
I have no real understanding why there is this speculation. People desire to read additional content into a face value item, there is no need for any of the information to be accurate and it often will end up distorted. I guess if the news crews knew the levels of the planes about to hit the towers they could have perfectly lined up their cameras - also to see exactly what happened in the building immediately after. The same with the Pentagon. Unfortunately they were not in the right place - and if by accident they were, would the News International Bond movie be proven to be non fiction? I am sure there is footage of people jumping from the towers - indeed I seem to remember seening some footage at the time. Personnally, I am happy not to see it again - and if I am mistaken about seeing it, good. I'd rather not.

The world is bad enough with any set of people that desire to do these acts, if you really feel that our own politicians would sanction this, we really do have a problem.

...and don't even get me going about Diana.

Chris
 
Sorry post deleted :) was totally irrelevant.
 
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Ewan said:
Yeah..but it's clearly not as strong as the stuff they make passports out of. They allegedly found one near the wreckage :suspect:
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Yeah, but you have to remember it was a terrorist's passport - they're made out of heavier duty paper :lol:
 
:popcorn:
 
if i remember correctly wasnt it a truck they first said hit the pentagon?? that suddenly grew into a plane. i would guess the truck was right, but nothing the government could do about closing all the roads, so switch to a plane and all airports are closed nice and safe again.
the pentagon isnt a normal building either i dont think, so prob would take quite a bit of damage to get into it(guess work only).

and i wouldnt be surprised if the government had a hand in 911(or knew about it and let it happen). but it will never be admitted if it was, as it would immediately harm the relationships between different countries.
 
It was Santa. Proof is that I didn't get any pressies that year. :bat:
 
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