9/11 thread - conspiracy stuff discussion

[King_Boru]

I just want to point out that I didn't start this thread. It has been cut in two from the original. I opened the can of worms (good at that).

I knew straight away it was terrorists.

Which terrorists?

It was / and still is hard to understand why any human being could carry out such an act, just don't understand any of it!

Dont think we will ever understand the thought process behind it or how they actually did it. :shrug:

The thought process:

Need more oil! We can't sustain the non negotiable American way of life on our own reserves! Need excuse to start a war. F'k it lets do this and blame the terrorists in the middle east.

Look up the Rockefeller family and research their history in relation to world wars, American wars (Vietnam in particular) and compare them to the rise and fall of Gold, economies, depressions and more.

Reports of explosions prior to the aircraft hitting the building. Images of a cut support structures. Video footage of molten steel. No luggage from the plane. One passport found in the rubble of the suicide pilot later to be found and arrested? No luggage or aircraft debris at the Pentagon? :shrug: The FBI laying down a few feet of soil to prevent people seeing the crash site? :shrug:

Again, probably put my neck out there, seem to be good at it on this forum but yeah, this is my researched and studied view. Heavily summed up.

 

[scraggs]

Which terrorists?





The thought process:

Need more oil! We can't sustain the non negotiable American way of life on our own reserves! Need excuse to start a war. F'k it lets do this and blame the terrorists in the middle east.

Look up the Rockefeller family and research their history in relation to world wars, American wars (Vietnam in particular) and compare them to the rise and fall of Gold, economies, depressions and more.

Reports of explosions prior to the aircraft hitting the building. Images of a cut support structures. Video footage of molten steel. No luggage from the plane. One passport found in the rubble of the suicide pilot later to be found and arrested? No luggage or aircraft debris at the Pentagon? :shrug: The FBI laying down a few feet of soil to prevent people seeing the crash site? :shrug:

Again, probably put my neck out there, seem to be good at it on this forum but yeah, this is my researched and studied view. Heavily summed up.

You forgot to add WTC 7 being demolished whoops I meant to say falling to the ground for some strange reason later that day and that never got hit by a plane :shrug:

 

[King_Boru]

You forgot to add WTC 7 being demolished whoops I meant to say falling to the ground for some strange reason later that day and that never got hit by a plane :shrug:

I did forget to mention that. It also collapsed from within in very similar fashion to a controlled demolition.

 

[MG TF 135]

The thought process:

Need more oil! We can't sustain the non negotiable American way of life on our own reserves! Need excuse to start a war. F'k it lets do this and blame the terrorists in the middle east.

Look up the Rockefeller family and research their history in relation to world wars, American wars (Vietnam in particular) and compare them to the rise and fall of Gold, economies, depressions and more.

Reports of explosions prior to the aircraft hitting the building. Images of a cut support structures. Video footage of molten steel. No luggage from the plane. One passport found in the rubble of the suicide pilot later to be found and arrested? No luggage or aircraft debris at the Pentagon? :shrug: The FBI laying down a few feet of soil to prevent people seeing the crash site? :shrug:

Again, probably put my neck out there, seem to be good at it on this forum but yeah, this is my researched and studied view. Heavily summed up.

The logistics of a conspiracy make it a nigh on impossible theory. The amount of people that would have to be involved makes it a non starter.

"Support structures being cut?" Get real, how do you suppose that would have happened in a building that was being used 24/7?

Conspiracy theories are all well and good but in my view they are created by people who can't grasp reality and have trouble dealing with the events that actually happened.

 

[Matt]

i very much doubt there is anything in the conspiricies here, there have been a couple of very good, indepth documentaries on tv about how and why the building collapsed, with interviews from the building architects, experts and others, all of which are much more believable than some kind of movie-style conspiracy plot.

 

[King_Boru]

.

EDIT: I cant be bothered to argue on this forum anymore.

 

[CruisingComet]

EDIT: I cant be bothered to argue on this forum anymore.

That's good

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

i very much doubt there is anything in the conspiricies here, there have been a couple of very good, indepth documentaries on tv about how and why the building collapsed, with interviews from the building architects, experts and others, all of which are much more believable than some kind of movie-style conspiracy plot.

If its on TV its must be true…

Oddly though, that’s quite the opposite to how they came across to me. ... I was hoping they (I've watched most possibly) would concentrate on demolishing the main conspiracy facts. ... but all of them missed these facts and we where just fed with a load of back patting bull, about how thorough they had tested there own choice of pointless points. ... a total farce all in all I thought.

What was the point in that I though ....

But then if it on TV it must be true right!?!

:shrug:

 

[Matt]

If its on TV its must be true…

Oddly though, that’s quite the opposite to how they came across to me. ... I was hoping they (I've watched most possibly) would concentrate on demolishing the main conspiracy facts. ... but all of them missed these facts and we where just fed with a load of back patting bull, about how thorough they had tested there own choice of pointless points. ... a total farce all in all I thought.

What was the point in that I though ....

But then if it on TV it must be true right!?!

:shrug:

well it was a documentary on how the buildings collapsed and why, nothing else was in it, but I guess because some guys on the internet decided that it was a conspiracy, that must be true instead.

I like good solid facts, backed up by independat scientific trials and explanations, not fanciful rubbish.

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

well it was a documentary on how the buildings collapsed and why, nothing else was in it, but I guess because some guys on the internet decided that it was a conspiracy, that must be true instead.

I like good solid facts, backed up by independat scientific trials and explanations, not fanciful rubbish.

So you collect your solid facts from a TV documentary?

Matty, your taking the whatsits out of me surely…It was a rubbish made up theory of how the buildings might have collapsed, for the sake of viewing figures, just like everything else on TV

.Just because its named 'How the buildings collapsed' ... in HD, with a few paid scientists!' doesn't mean its true ... (edit, soz not true, I mean having any worth connected to the actual facts of 9/11)

How about the real life possibility that all may not be as its portrayed ?

 

[chris321]

The photos are nasty, I'd almost forgotten how bad it was.... :shake:

On another note, I'm almost through my engineering degree, 2 years ago we had a lecture on 'progressive failure of structures', with the twin towers being a prime example. If anyone doubts that a single impact can cause the total failure of a building (without 'cut support columns etc), I've got a fair few pages of maths backing it up somewhere .

 

[Matt]

So you collect your solid facts from a TV documentary?

Matty, your taking the whatsits out of me surely…It was a rubbish made up theory of how the buildings might have collapsed, for the sake of viewing figures, just like everything else on TV

.Just because its named 'How the buildings collapsed' ... in HD, with a few paid scientists!' doesn't mean its true ... (edit, soz not true, I mean having any worth connected to the actual facts of 9/11)

How about the real life possibility that all may not be as its portrayed ?

rubbish made up theory? You mean like the government blew it up?
if you REALLY think it was a conspiracy then good luck to you, but do have a read of this website..http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

 

[retired]

Perhaps this is a section they cut out before that horrendous crime was committed by misguided scum.

Getting back on track, I came across this while in the States last year. If I remember rightly it stated that 360 fire-fighters lost their lives at The Towers.

 

[Jamesbuk]

Matty - I'd just give up if I were you, you can't teach the ignorant.

I sat here and wrote a nice long reply using various easily accessible websites detailing how the Twin Towers collapsed - but I just thought.. whats the point? some people get a buzz from thinking they are in on a secret.

I've participated, and seen, this argument on so many forums and it goes no where except lockings and bans - People who believe it was done by terrorists present facts and logical solutions and the conspiracy theorists just dismiss it all.

ForbiddenBiker - take a read of This, I think you'll see its completely logical that the Twin Towers fell as they did.


James

 

[bomberman]

You've got to be quite a cynic to think that the US government would butcher thousands of innocent people just to look for an excuse to invade.

for the sake of viewing figures, just like everything else on TV

mirror time

 

[Vic]

Conspiracy theory or not its a sad loss of human life and unfortunately there are much worse atrocities that happen all the time that we dont get to see (or arent interested in seeing) :|

 

[Jayst84]

Conspiracy theory or not its a sad loss of human life and unfortunately there are much worse atrocities that happen all the time that we dont get to see (or arent interested in seeing) :|

Case in point. There are a lot of *******s out there.

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

if you REALLY think it was a conspiracy then good luck to you, but do have a read of this website..http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

Matty - I'd just give up if I were you, you can't teach the ignorant.


ForbiddenBiker - take a read of This, I think you'll see its completely logical that the Twin Towers fell as they did.

Lick his behind all you want James but please theres no need to be rude.

..clearly! :nono:

---

I haven't said I think its a conspiracy ...But I am yet to be convinced it was all it was reported to be. I want to believe it was terrorists.

Your links guy ..I have read before in one guise or other. Inevitably with something so complex that there are good arguments and counter arguments for both sides.

The problem I have is: With any true event there are real facts, evidence and after data collection that, upon reflection, fits the event perfectly.
,
But with 9/11 this isn't the case.

There are fifty odd errors in the story ...which is VERY unusual for a real event.

:shrug:

 

[King_Boru]

Conspiracy theories are all well and good but in my view they are created by people who can't grasp reality and have trouble dealing with the events that actually happened.

That's good

Perhaps this is a section they cut out before that horrendous crime was committed by misguided scum.

Lick his behind all you want James but please theres no need to be rude.

..clearly! :nono:

---

I'd just like to point this out too. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, views and beliefs. Just because you don't agree with them it doesn't give you the grounds on which to be rude. Nobody in this thread has deserved the backlash which has occurred.

On that note. Cya!

 

[Matt]

Im gonna split this thread up. Please, lets stay civil.

 

[Matt]

Please keep it civilised folks.

what are these errors that dont add up?

 

[Jamesbuk]

Lick his behind all you want James but please theres no need to be rude.

I apologise for the rudeness - threads on these sorts of topics tend to make my blood boil sometimes.

Why do you think I would be brown nosing? I have no reason to do so.

Now - if you believe 9/11 to have "50" odd errors, why dont you list them? Should only take a few minutes..

James

 

[King_Boru]

snip

 

[Flash In The Pan]

i very much doubt there is anything in the conspiricies here, there have been a couple of very good, indepth documentaries on tv about how and why the building collapsed, with interviews from the building architects, experts and others, all of which are much more believable than some kind of movie-style conspiracy plot.

Did you ever see the documentary the BBC did that "proved" the "Magic Bullet Theory" (that one bullet, fired by Lee Harvey Oswald, not only killed JFK but put Gov. Connolly in hospital too?

Just because it's on the tv doesn't make it true

 

[Matt]

Did you ever see the documentary the BBC did that "proved" the "Magic Bullet Theory" (that one bullet, fired by Lee Harvey Oswald, not only killed JFK but put Gov. Connolly in hospital too?

Just because it's on the tv doesn't make it true

the magic bullet is far more plausable than some of the stuff ive read today. Ive yet to see anything that hasnt got a sensible and easily explained explanation. Just because its on the internet doesnt make it true either. Far more misinformation and ******** on the internet than has ever been on tv.

King_Boru, sorry, i should have pointed out that you didnt start this thread, only the discussion in the other.

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

Please keep it civilised folks.

what are these errors that dont add up?

I apologise for the rudeness - threads on these sorts of topics tend to make my blood boil sometimes.

Why do you think I would be brown nosing? I have no reason to do so.

Now - if you believe 9/11 to have "50" odd errors, why dont you list them? Should only take a few minutes..

James

I was just being defensive, just a dig, guilty I am, no reason whatso ever.

---

Oh come on guys!!

Much as you'd both like, I'll not be listing stuff, its documented in vast amounts accross the internet for all to see who are interested.

And since you've both put links up concerning this question already Im sure you at least have some ideas about some of them, so I’m not getting into the inevitable never ending debate sorry.

I was simply pointing out you can't believe all you see on a made for TV documentary....yes and neither can you on a conspiracy site.

I'm just saying their are lots of questions answered, and plenty of almost magical coincidences involved against huge odds all at the same time.

Neither of those fulfils my sense of what the truth actually was.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

the magic bullet is far more plausable than some of the stuff ive read today.

 

[Matt]

ive not read of any of those magical coincidences.. just lots of fanciful stories of missiles and cut beams.

 

[Matt]

some of the theories are...erm...interesting...to say the least. Never really went into the whole presidential assasination theories though, maybe sometime I will

 

[King_Boru]

evidence of a thermite cutter charge reaction. note the molten steel on its edges. kerosene (or jet fuel) doesn't burn to the temperatures required to melt steel. The angle of the cut is also the same as one used during a controlled demolition.

As FobiddenBiker points out, there is plenty of material online and published about the event.

Its up to the individual to find it and make their own opinion on the matter.

 

[SarahLee]

Well here's my 2p worth for anyone who's interested . . . and an attempt to apply some sense and logic to it.
(although I might regret poking my nose into this can of worms)

There are 2 very distinct and separate questions being debated here :

1)Did the buildings collapse as a result of the impact or due to sabotage?

There are experts who'll argue that it was due to the impact and those that will argue that it wasn't.
Neither side will ever give into the other and short of recreating the EXACT same scenario nobody will ever know for sure. So let's discount this for now.

There are however 2 indisputable facts.
Two planes did hit the WTC and the towers did collapse shortly afterwards.
The simplest conclusion has to be that the one event caused the other.

Also in support of this conclusion.

- The logistics of sabotaging the building make it implausible as an answer. And the sheer number of people who would have had to be involved suggests that there would probably have been a leak by now.

- There was nothing to be gained by sabotaging the buildings.
If the American government was behind it, flying 2 passenger planes into the WTC would have been sufficient in itself to generate public panic over the terror threat.
Why take the additional risk of completely destroying them and involving all those extra people?


2) Who was behind the attack?

An impossible question to answer.
It perhaps came at a convenient time for the American government; they were almost unbelievably quick in identifying the terrorists; and there are parts of the story that raise questions.
However, that certainly doesn't mean that they are behind it and I feel that it is a bit of a stretch to believe that they'd commit an atrocity on this scale against their own people.

What I do believe is that they acted very quickly to scapegoat a guilty party - one that served their own wider purpose.

They were under huge pressure from the public to find out who was responsible and were losing credibility every hour that nobody was named - so why wouldn't they kill 2 birds with one stone?
Satisfy the public by putting a name to the threat and choose a culprit that suited their own agenda.
While I find it hard to believe that they would commit the act themselves, I have no problem believing that they'd manipulate the evidence after the event to suit their own purposes.

JMO on this bit - no facts available to support it one way or the other

 

[Matt]

evidence of a thermite cutter charge reaction.

a photo taken after the event, when areas where being cleared to get people out of the rubble perhaps? If the building had collapsed onto that, it would have been knocked to buggery
http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

Well here's my 2p worth for anyone who's interested . . . and an attempt to apply some sense and logic to it.
(although I might regret poking my nose into this can of worms)

There are 2 very distinct and separate questions being debated here :

1)Did the buildings collapse as a result of the impact or due to sabotage?

There are experts who'll argue that it was due to the impact and those that will argue that it wasn't.
Neither side will ever give into the other and short of recreating the EXACT same scenario nobody will ever know for sure. So let's discount this for now.

There are however 2 indisputable facts.
Two planes did hit the WTC and the towers did collapse shortly afterwards.
The simplest conclusion has to be that the one event caused the other.

Also in support of this conclusion.

- The logistics of sabotaging the building make it implausible as an answer. And the sheer number of people who would have had to be involved suggests that there would probably have been a leak by now.

- There was nothing to be gained by sabotaging the buildings.
If the American government was behind it, flying 2 passenger planes into the WTC would have been sufficient in itself to generate public panic over the terror threat.
Why take the additional risk of completely destroying them and involving all those extra people?


2) Who was behind the attack?

An impossible question to answer.
It perhaps came at a convenient time for the American government; they were almost unbelievably quick in identifying the terrorists; and there are parts of the story that raise questions.
However, that certainly doesn't mean that they are behind it and I feel that it is a bit of a stretch to believe that they'd commit an atrocity on his scale against their own people.

What I do believe is that they acted very quickly to scapegoat a guilty party - one that served their own wider purpose.

They were under huge pressure from the public to find out who was responsible and were losing credibility every hour that nobody was named - so why wouldn't they kill 2 birds with one stone?
Satisfy the public by putting a name to the threat and choose a culprit that suited their own aims.
While I find it hard to believe that they would commit the act themselves, I have no problem believing that they'd manipulate the evidence after the event to suit their own purposes.

I dont think we will ever know why the authorities knew who to go after, though they admit they knew that there was something planned but they didnt know what, they had been tailing some of the men. Maybe one day that will come out and more will be known

 

[Yv]

I can only begin to wonder, with the number of people that would have been involved, what a deathbed confession or three or would do to the US and it's government.






Of course, that would only actually be a worthwhile thought if the conspiracy theorists actually had any worthwhile conspiracies, because without them, there is nothing for any of those 'involved' to confess to.



If you want my opinion, read Sarahs post above, it pretty much sums it up.

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I've absorbed a lot of the available info on 9/11 over the last decade.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all, the thought that we are under threats from reptiles masquerading as human beings is not something I can consider, the notion that we have been visited by alien races is on the same list and so is the suggestion that Elvis is still alive.

However, when it comes to events being orchestrated for political gain, or inducing/generating obscene profit and also conflicts concerning ownership of resources I'm inclined to listen to both sides with an open mind.

The fact is, in our world, huge amounts die each year from starvation, disease and poverty. Violence and conflict rages on due to scarcity of basic amenities.
The ruling class or those with power, do little to resolve these atrocities.

It's a very upsetting and infuriating realisation that justice, is largely absent wherever huge profit is present.

All we have to do, is look at our history and we will see that indeed such events are manipulated in the name of greed.

For those who are neither here nor there.

Mind The Gap

The Power Of Nightmares

Loose Change

Peter Joseph's Zeitgeist Trilogy

Wherever you can, grab the chance to watch the interview of Michael Ruppert directed by Chris Smith, entitled 'The Collapse'.

If your familiar with the term 'Peak Oil' then this interview will be of considerable value to you.

Matty - I'd just give up if I were you, you can't teach the ignorant.

How couragious of you to give up that easily James. Well done

 

[Matt]

second link doesnt work tomas, Ive bookmarked the others and will take a look.

I dont disagree that governments and 'associates' manipulate and deceive, I just find the idea that this particular event was designed and played out by the US Government to be daft. Manipulated after the event for political gain, certainly, but thats all

 

[Sparkles33]

I understand that there was alot of work needed doing to them in the coming years and it would have been more cost effective to demolish them...but of course, who would give permission to demolish them?!

Get what I'm saying.....?

 

[Tyke Tiler]

second link doesnt work tomas, Ive bookmarked the others and will take a look.

I dont disagree that governments and 'associates' manipulate and deceive, I just find the idea that this particular event was designed and played out by the US Government to be daft. Manipulated after the event for political gain, certainly, but thats all

That's a bummer mate, link works fine f'me. Maybe google 'BBC documentary the power of nightmares' as an alternative. It's a cracking three part doc, well worth the watch. More so with Mike Ruppert interview.

Doin a lovely corporate shoot at the mo, be back later

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

I understand that there was alot of work needed doing to them in the coming years and it would have been more cost effective to demolish them...but of course, who would give permission to demolish them?!

Get what I'm saying.....?

Yes I do.

... it was the cost as they contain hundreds of tons of asbestos. .(They where quoted 1 billion to remove it )

...evidence of a thermite cutter charge reaction. note the molten steel on its edges.

That’s was a rubbish choice KB, the trouble with conspiracy sites is that they merge the 10% of important stuff with 90% red herrings ...Links like the one found in Mattys post will pick up on this and generate a whole pile of stuff discrediting the red herring and making themselves look right in the process.

... I think your very couragous to stick your neck out though, that small choice of poor evidence aside...

...Heck at least you know when your being duped.

1)Did the buildings collapse as a result of the impact or due to sabotage?

....

2) Who was behind the attack?



JMO on this bit - no facts available to support it one way or the other

Very excellent logic for me too Sarah ...I agree in the whole but my need to be informed has opened up many other possibilites for me.

One of clearer ones being the fact that for global corporations profit comes way before any human life, all humanity or anything scocialy useful. ..they come first not life.

All we have to do, is look at our history and we will see that indeed such events are manipulated in the name of greed.

For those who are neither here nor there.

Mind The Gap

The Power Of Nightmares

Loose Change

Peter Joseph's Zeitgeist Trilogy

Wherever you can, grab the chance to watch the interview of Michael Ruppert directed by Chris Smith, entitled 'The Collapse'.

If your familiar with the term 'Peak Oil' then this interview will be of considerable value to you.

Facinating links Tom.

Loose change had me weaping...

The Zeitgeist Trilogy was a superb eye opener...

 

[Forbiddenbiker]

second link doesnt work tomas, Ive bookmarked the others and will take a look.

It worked for me if I trimmed the address down a bit... then I just went for part 1.

 

[Matt]

i will try the link again.

Still havent been presented with any facts. at this point the only people being duped are the ones who think the building was cut and rigged to blow, unless someone has some proof?