7D No Woes, only joys now.

wingnut

wingnut

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After nearly killing my 40d at a wedding the other week with a g&t being spilt on it, i thought it was time to upgrade the kit.
Did a load of reasearch and made the choice of a 7D as it ticked all the right boxes but mainly it meant I could still use two of my lenses without spending a small fortune on a new ones just to upgrade to a ff 5dmkii.
Look around at all suppliers and although a few Ebay shops and drop shippers (Camerabox etc etc) did them cheaper i thought it best to play safe and buy british. To my surprise Jessops are doing 0% finance over 12 months at present and had them in store at my local shop.
Excellent. I thought. Rushed in did the deed and was happy. Had it for a few days so tested the heck out of it before a wedding.
Mid way through the speeches the shutter startes to stick, then it freezes altogether, swap lens and then i get err 01 body and lens communication error. b****r. Drag out the 40d and carry as if nothing happened. Phew.
Phoned Jessops on the Monday and got a direct replacement with a little hassle, but nothing major. The manager phoned Canon direct and they told him / me to use only my 24-105mm f/4 L on the 7D!! The issues was my tokina and sigma lens!!
So took second body home used the 24-105mm on it for a week, sweet. Put the Tokina 12-24mm on yesterday and it froze after the first shot with the camera. Tried the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 same thing. Put the "L" glass back on and it was fine. Oh forgot to say that despite it not being able to take still images with the Tokina it can still record hd video with the tokina. So phoned jessops again and explained the issue. Again they replaced the body with no quibble. So the wife goes in to town, get's the body. At home I put the Tokina on straight away and take a few test shots. Err01 everytime. Put the Tokina on my 40d and it works perfectly.
So this morning I have upgraded the firmware to the latest 1.2.1 on the 7D and taken a few test shots with the Sigma 70-200mm, Tokina 12-24mm and my Canon 24-105mm L, and so far so good, but this whole episode does leave a slight bitter taste in my mouth and a lack of faith in the 7D, now I'm hoping it will pass and I will love the camera like everyone else does but at present it is just not grabbing my by the ging gangs.

I am hoping the firmware upgrade will sort the issue but if anyone has had similar experiences or a solutions to issue I would be greatly appreciated.

Also I know they have been knocked in the past but Jessops have gone up in my estimation after this whole incident. Cheers guys for making the problems a lot smoother.
 
One of the pitfalls of buying third-party Canon lenses is that they might not work with future camera bodies, due to being reverse-engineered and not 100% compatible (more like 99.5% compatible) with Canon's electronics.

I haven't heard of a third party lens causing a camera to throw a wobbly, but it's logical that this might happen. Surprising we don't hear more of it. Are there any similar experiences on the web involving the 7D?

Does anyone know if there's a similar issue with Nikon, or do they make their electronics specs available to third-party lens manufacturers?

A.
 
Not heard of any dramas - though I'd expect them to be no more open with technology than any other manufacturer...

I know what you mean about not feeling 'at-one' with your camera because of this though...
Happily it's never happened to me...:D
 
I've been using the Tokina 12-24 and Sigma 70-200 on my 7D with no problems at all.

The Sigma was bought new at the same time as the 7D, the Tokina was bought seconhand off here.
 
A quick google has shown various incidents of the 7D throwing wobblies with various lenses not just third party ones but L series glass too. Also a chat with another branch of Jessops has reveled that a whole batch of 7D suffered from thses exact problems and it is down to faulty circuitry in the lens mount area. Wether this is true or not who knows, but i have been randomly snapping around the house this morning with my 12-24mm on the 7D and so far no further problems. Been running it at all iso's, apertures etc etc inc flash on and off camera.
 
nothing to do with the camera. your camera works with canon lenses thats all its warrented for. suprised jessops took them back off you TBH or did you not tell them about the canon lenses working on them.

wingnut said:
and so far so good, but this whole episode does leave a slight bitter taste in my mouth and a lack of faith in the 7D, now I'm hoping it will pass and I will love the camera like everyone else does but at present it is just not grabbing my by the ging gangs.

I am hoping the firmware upgrade will sort the issue but if anyone has had similar experiences or a solutions to issue I would be greatly appreciated.

Also I know they have been knocked in the past but Jessops have gone up in my estimation after this whole incident. Cheers guys for making the problems a lot smoother.
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I had a similar problem some time ago. Ibought a Canon 400d with a sigma 17-70mm lens. It worked fine, then I upgraded to a 450d, and the sticking problems started. Also carried on when I changed to the 500d. Decided to change to a Canon 17-85, which gave no problems and was a much better lens.
 
your third-party lenses might need firmware/microchip updates. some older third-party lenses might not have support for newer cameras. if repairing/replacing the 7d doesn't work, it's less likely to be a lens mount problem. you could try contacting the lens manufacturers.

and what's up with the 7d anyway? seems to me there are so many technical problems. mine needed sending back for dodgy AF. looks like it was fixed, but it just erodes my trust and confidence that little bit.
 
willsphots said:
and what's up with the 7d anyway? seems to me there are so many technical problems. mine needed sending back for dodgy AF. looks like it was fixed, but it just erodes my trust and confidence that little bit.
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Sorry to move a little off topic, but I would be interested in knowing what issues you had with the AF.
I am getting difficulties with expanded AF not tracking in one shot, AI AF, or AI servo AF.
Canon are trying to sort it out over the phone at the moment but with no sucess, looks like its got to be returned.
 
well, the topic is 7d woes :D

let me see.. i had trouble with the AF-assist points/expanded AF as well, along with single-point AF and spot AF in both one-shot AF and AI servo modes. intermittently front- and back-focusing and inconsistent AF. definitely not a problem with the lenses; all were sharp on the old 40d (should have just gotten a second 40d.. grumblegrumble).

updated to latest firmware (just in case) and no change. so, e-mailed canon support and they told me to send it in. the report when it came back said, "AF adjusted and tested." i'm just looking through my pics over the weekend and they look ok.
 
POAH said:
nothing to do with the camera. your camera works with canon lenses thats all its warrented for. suprised jessops took them back off you TBH or did you not tell them about the canon lenses working on them.
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Just so you know the problem did occur with my 24-105 L lens on the first body and it happened in front of the Jessops staff, so there's no reason for them to not replace it.
I would expand a little more but tbh honest it's accusastions of me lying or with holding information that puts me off ever using forums where one or two ill-informed invidiuals think they know it all. I only asked for some help or if folks had had similar experiences not to be called a liar. Cheers.:thumbsdown:
 
wingnut said:
Just so you know the problem did occur with my 24-105 L lens on the first body and it happened in front of the Jessops staff, so there's no reason for them to not replace it.
I would expand a little more but tbh honest it's accusastions of me lying or with holding information that puts me off ever using forums where one or two ill-informed invidiuals think they know it all. I only asked for some help or if folks had had similar experiences not to be called a liar. Cheers.:thumbsdown:
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No one was calling you a liar but you did say the second body did work fine with " the "L" glass" even after it failed to work with your Tokina.

So it is reasonable to say that the problem is with the third party lens - something for which Canon are not responsible and Jessops could easily have stated that you broke warranty by ignoring manufacturers guidelines to only use Canon lenses (ludicrous rules, but they could have enforced them)
 
I took Poah's comment as being called a liar. Yes the L glass worked fine on the second body I didn't even give it chance to fail with it. I replaced it as soon as. I wasn't going to spend a few days of my time waiting for it to fail no matter what lens I put on it, which is what happened with the first body.
Not matter what Canon's policy or warranty maybe, I personally don't think I should be held to randsom by a company to buy expensive glass, if it fits and is designed for that camera mount then we should be free to choose what glass we use, be it all Canon, Tokina, Sigma or whoever. Of course canon will try tp push their own products, daft business if they didn't but it's amazing to see a wide range of responeses all over the net. some say they have the same issues others say the same lenses work perfect!
 
wingnut said:
Not matter what Canon's policy or warranty maybe, I personally don't think I should be held to randsom by a company to buy expensive glass, if it fits and is designed for that camera mount then we should be free to choose what glass we use, be it all Canon, Tokina, Sigma or whoever.
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I understand your frustration, but I am afraid the onus there is on the 3rd party manufacturers to ensure that their lenses are compatible with Canon bodies, not the other way round.

Canon will, quite reasonably, test their new bodies with their own lenses ensure that they work together. I don't see that it's their responsibility to test them with every lens manufactured as 'compatible' with Canon's system by other companies.

Certainly, if it were ever to come to a court case over which item was 'fit for purpose' the defendant would be the third party lens manufacturer, not Canon, as it was they that sold you the lens as compatible with Canon's system.

When buying third party items, there is always the risk that they may not work, especially when new camera bodies are released.

If one were to put the responsibility the other way round, how far should it extend? To lenses made by Sigma in 1987 but long since discontinued? And how about other things like flash units?
 
yeah I understand all of that but this is now taking the issue off topic, that can of worms is a whole thread on it's own so can we nip this off topic chat in the bud now please.
Back to original post, my 3rd body seems to be behaving very well this time around. I haven't procced the images seriously as yet but at first glance they seem a little less noisier that the first 2 bodies were and a lot less saturated despite using the same in camera settings as before. Weird.
Also and I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it but on the first two bodies I unpacked the firmware update direct to the card (Sandisk extreme III 30mb/s) and this third body was updated by unpacking the firmware to my hdd then transfering it to a slower card of 15mb/s.
Again propbably nothing but it's the only other variable that has changed other than a different camera of a different serial batch code from the first two.

Thanks to everyone who has given me input. I will be phoning both Sigma and Tokina tomorrow to check on campatability of my lenses in question just incase they are aware of any further issues.
 
AFAIK only Sigma reverse engineer lenses, Tamron and Tokina both pay for the technology so it would be reasonable to assume that the lenses should work 100%.
 
When I read a review for the Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 on 'the-digital-picture.com' they were under the impression that just like Sigma, that they reverse engineer as well.

From the site:

My obligatory standard notice: You should know that there are potential issues with third party lenses. Since Tamron reverse engineers (vs. licenses) manufacturer AF routines, the possibility exists that a new body might not support an older third party lens. Though not common, this has happened. Sometimes a lens can be rechipped to be made compatible, sometimes not.
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http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Tamron-70-200mm-f-2.8-Di-Macro-Lens-Review.aspx
 
CraigF said:
AFAIK only Sigma reverse engineer lenses, Tamron and Tokina both pay for the technology
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To the best of my knowledge, that's an urban myth.

The best source I can find is this:

http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00DhyL

Lazy Sod , Sep 30, 2005; 12:48 p.m.

It's not true that Tamron is licensing Canon's EF protocol, at least if one is to believe Chuck Westfall from Canon USA. See his reply at the end of this page:

(link)

"Canon Inc. has officially stated that the EF lens mount signal protocol has never been licensed to 3rd-party manufacturers."

So Sigma simply did a lousy job reverse-engineering the protocol, while Tamron did a much better job.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, Rob Galbraith no longer operates a forum on his site, so the link doesn't work.

Chuck Westfall is the manager of the Camera Divison Technical Information Dept of Canon U.S.A., BTW.
 
Worth reading that first link just for the banter on the spelling issue not the lens mount issue!
 
I had the same problem years ago with my EOS film cameras. I had an EOS 100 and upgraded to an EOS 5. My Sigma 24mm and 16-35 worked fine on the 100 but not the 5. Sigma were good enough to take them back and do something to them and they worked perfectly after that until I bought my first DSLR and then they stopped working. Sigma weren't as obliging second time round so I sold them and bought Canon lenses.
Although the Sigmas were optically sharp as a tack its kinda put me off 3rd party lenses.
My Tamron 90 macro is a wee gem though.
 
Bit of a result today, i phoned both Sigma and Tokina direct to enquire about incompatability of theirs lenses with the 7D, both said that neither lens I have have been using on the 7d should cause any problems that they are aware of and there ius no upgrade chip or firmware flash needed. Sweet. Spoke to Canon customer services direct to explain situation and was kinda surpirsed by the response in all honesty.
Obviously the "Use of third party lens" talk was given to which I um'd, ah'd etc etc and then was told in a hushed voice that she had the 7d and used the Tokina 12-24 without issues and they had had a few bad batches of 7D with dodgy connections between the lens and body and due to the reverse enginering of third party lenses the issues could be worsened, so in short if I had had on L glass only on the first two bodies I may not have been aware of any issue. Interesting.
Now I'm taking all this with a pinch of salt and will await the proof of it not failing this time. So far so good.
 
Canon employee in "third party lens" shocker! :eek:

:lol:

I'm sure Canon are fully aware that lots of their customers buy their cameras to use with (cheaper) third party lenses. I don't know why they don't just release their specs to Sigma, Tamron etc. That way, at least the lenses would be 100% compatible, and Canon wouldn't get cameras returned due to spurious errors that were actually caused by lenses.

Canon could still claim that their own lenses were optically superior! :D

A.
 
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