7D MkII v 1DX ISO 800-6400

Gaz J

Gaz J

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Just been messing about with both cameras and quickly took a series of shots on both from ISO800 to ISO6400

This is not meant to be the definitive test just for interest.

Pics are 1400 x 1000 pixel crop from a 100% zoom.

7D MkII ISO800
7D-MkII-ISO-800 by garyjenkins8, on Flickr


1DX ISO800
1DX-ISO-800 by garyjenkins8, on Flickr


7D MkII ISO1600
7D-MkII-ISO-1600 by garyjenkins8, on Flickr


1DX ISO1600
1DX-ISO-1600 by garyjenkins8, on Flickr


7D MkII ISO3200
7D-MkII-ISO-3200 by garyjenkins8, on Flickr


1DX ISO3200
1DX-ISO-3200 by garyjenkins8, on Flickr


7D MkII ISO6400
7D-MkII-ISO-6400 by garyjenkins8, on Flickr


1DX ISO6400
1DX-ISO-6400 by garyjenkins8, on Flickr
 
1Dx seems to win hands down (if slightly underexposed), not that it shouldn't at 4x price. Can you upscale one or two to 7D crop factor? 1Dx files are clearly more detailed, I wonder if they held up at the same magnification.
 
Will do some more. Tried to get the same image size on these or as close as I could.

Its asking a lot of the 1DX to crop in that far, and its not something I'm interested in, but I will give it a go.
 
I am very disappointed to see the 7Dii image at ISO 1600 - I was expecting rather better.
 
Gaz J said:
Will do some more. Tried to get the same image size on these or as close as I could.

Its asking a lot of the 1DX to crop in that far, and its not something I'm interested in, but I will give it a go.
Click to expand...

Just upscale 1.6-2x times on export.

Orville said:
1DX appears to have a 1.5 to 2 stop advantage.
Click to expand...

Imagine if it didn't. That would be a real headline grabber.

edit: perhaps I should say let's compare it with the best nikon crop and D810 at base ISO. The next high res FF canon is likely to be based on this, and I am not 100% sure if I'd want it.
 
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Not much point in comparing at base ISO against the Nikon sensors as its common knowledge that the Nikon sensors are better.

Its just a real world comparison outwith the fancy tests and cobblers that pours out whenever a new camera comes out.

For me its what I would expect to see and I would say the 1DX has a 1.5 stop advantage here.

Quite a bit of hype about the MkII being a mini 1DX. Quite clearly its just a 7D MKII.
 
Gaz J said:
Quite a bit of hype about the MkII being a mini 1DX. Quite clearly its just a 7D MKII.
Click to expand...

Hence the word mini? It was also described as the little brother (or not so little brother) to the 1Dx but never as a 1Dx replacement or even an equivalent.

The hype came from the fact that it has specs which allow it to perform similar tasks to the 1Dx but at around 1/3 of the price on release. Why is anyone surprised that a crop sensor isn't as good as a FF sensor?
 
I'm not surprised. I never expected it to come close. I bought it for a specific reason. Outwith that I will use my 1DX.

The hype came from people like andy rouse and one or two others prior to the release.
 
Yeah but which part of the 'hype' do you believe was untrue? I was definitely looking forward to the 7d2 and I was reading reviews and watching videos as much as I could until my self control failed and I just went out and bought one. All I know is that I got exactly what I was expecting by upgrading from my 70d.
 
I've not even seen a decent review of the camera by someone independent yet it was being talked about as the best ever crop camera, able to shoot at high ISO with no trouble, AF to rival a 1DX. I wasn't looking forward to it, I only bought it to see what it was like and if it would give me the quality I was after under certain conditions.

Its good enough for what I want and I guess that's all that matters. For some though its not even passed the first hurdle of being able to focus adequately.
 
Thanks for taking the time out to do this. Those are exactly the type of shots I've been waiting to see. Some matching x 1.6 upscaled shots from the 1DX would be interesting but I'm more interested in the noise patterns of the 7DII at various ISOs and these shots show it to good effect.

I've been using a 7D on birds for 4 years now and will no doubt upgrade when the price drops a bit - or possibly sooner if my current body gives up the ghost in the meantime. It has had a hard life lol.

Thanks again
 
When I get a bit of decent light I will take some more and do a proper crop to 1.6 comparison. Have deleted all the files from this lot as I've got enough crap on y hard drives.
 
Thanks for doing and posting the test
thats a big difference between the two if you zoom in a bit
at the moment I'm using a 7D mark 1 and am very happy with IQ up to ISO 800 but I don't like using it above ISO 1600
 
Gaz J said:
I've not even seen a decent review of the camera by someone independent yet it was being talked about as the best ever crop camera, able to shoot at high ISO with no trouble, AF to rival a 1DX. I wasn't looking forward to it, I only bought it to see what it was like and if it would give me the quality I was after under certain conditions.

Its good enough for what I want and I guess that's all that matters. For some though its not even passed the first hurdle of being able to focus adequately.
Click to expand...

Well I'm pretty sure there must be reviews by now... I've watched quite a few but I haven't bothered to check to see how 'independent' they are. Whilst it would be nice to know the reviews aren't being influenced by the photographers wish to not bite the hand that feeds, it's also worth bearing in mind that the togs associated with Canon are also more likely to get a better chance to review it thoroughly. Independent photographers will need to purchase their own camera or arrange for their own loan body etc. An independent photographer may just want to be especially critical just to generate a bit of traffic for their site. I'm not saying I've seen that anywhere but personally I just watch any review and consider anyone's opinion but treat it as that - an opinion. Unless they've got hard facts and methods used to get those facts, that's all you can really do.

Best crop camera ever? I'm not sure I've seen that anywhere but to be honest, it probably is. That being said, it's not as if there's many premium crop cameras out there so the competition isn't exactly great. It's an improvement on any other canon crop sensors but a lot of people seem to be disappointed by how much/how little it has improved. People don't seem too upset when their new car doesn't really go much faster than their old one but they like the new mp3 player and satnav. There's more to the camera than just the sensor but I do wonder how much more they can get out of the existing sensors without a major change in design.

If people aren't able to get this camera to focus correctly then either they have a faulty body or they're doing it wrong. A lot of people expect their new camera to work in the same fashion as their old one and when it doesn't, they just blame the camera.



Just thought I'd add this since people are checking here for ISO/Noise. I had auto ISO on and it went a little higher than it should perhaps due to the metering so I tweaked the exposure back down in processing but this is ISO 4000

Chilling on a branch Kestrel by Phal44, on Flickr
 
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http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-7d-mark-ii/11

This handy tool allows you to compare different cameras at different ISO levels.

They are using the whole test image to fill the frame with each camera so not sure how much people will find that useful.

I think it's a great resource.

David
 
Gaz J said:
I've not even seen a decent review of the camera by someone independent yet it was being talked about as the best ever crop camera, able to shoot at high ISO with no trouble, AF to rival a 1DX. I wasn't looking forward to it, I only bought it to see what it was like and if it would give me the quality I was after under certain conditions.

Its good enough for what I want and I guess that's all that matters. For some though its not even passed the first hurdle of being able to focus adequately.
Click to expand...

Good honest review Gaz, sort of matches up to what people are seeing and when some of my contacts that are better togs than me are sending them back it's good to know.
Getting one or two sharp ones every now and again is not something i can live with.
 
Canon 7D Mark II arrives, eats 1D X for lunch with more horsepower, amazing autofocus system
7D MARK II APS-C CAMERA CAMERA PREVIEW CANON CANON 7D MARK II DIGIC 6DUAL PIXEL CMOS AF

That's before it was released!!

I agree with you that some faulty ones will be user error but some of these claims are coming from photographers who know what they are doing and have probably tested it properly. It seems rare these days for any camera to be fault free.

One thing I have noticed is that area covered by the single AF point seems very large. Its focusing outside the square. I noticed this when photographing small birds on my first outing with it. The square was on the head but move it slightly and it would refocus. Changing to spot focus helped.

I've looked for reviews and most are either pre prod or just spouting specs and theory. I don't necessary want a pro to do it. In my view its the effort that is put into the testing that is important not whether you are an amateur or pro.

I want to see real world examples, like yours, and people saying this is how the camera was set up and showing examples of their images taken. I'm keeping a record of what the camera settings were when I use it and as I get more info then I will post it. The ISO comparisons were a bit rushed and I will redo them when I get a bit better day.

Weather is playing a big part in testing for me as grey days just expose its limitations. Hopefully the images I posted in the Bird Section will encourage those thinking about changing that the camera has the capability to produce good results. I'm hoping for better though.
 
Willid1 said:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-7d-mark-ii/11

This handy tool allows you to compare different cameras at different ISO levels.

They are using the whole test image to fill the frame with each camera so not sure how much people will find that useful.

I think it's a great resource.

David
Click to expand...

That's a good link. Pretty much reinforces what I'm seeing but obviously done a bit more professionally. I will stick with my estimate that the 1DX has a stop and a half on the MkII.

I'm not saying this to knock the MkII but simply because for me its important to know when to put the MkII away and reach for the FF
 
The ISO values aren't necessarily comparable between these two cameras, simply because they represent different sensor formats. In other words, if you wanted to create an image which 'looked the same' as the 1DX image that would involve ensuring the same depth of field in the picture. We know that an APSC sensor has slightly over a stop of additional depth of field at any given aperture value, which means that to standardise your photographs you can therefore shoot the 7D at one stop wider AV. And therefore at a stop lower ISO - enabling you to claw back some of the additional noise inherent to the smaller sensor (providing of course your shooting style and chosen lens allows you a wider aperture than you would normally choose on your 1DX). Hope that makes sense. This is quite an important concept which is often overlooked when the IQ of differing sensor formats are compared. In other words, to get near enough the same looking photograph, the 1DX might have settings like f5.6 at 3200ISO and the 7D would be f4 at 1600ISO. That in fact gives you the most meaningful image comparison.
 
Whilst adjusting aperture/ISO to reflect the difference would give a more accurate appraisal Lindsay I, along with many others, bought the camera to use in the real world and I want to use both cameras wide open on my 500 f4. The DOF difference is a by product of the sensor and can be beneficial or detrimental to the type of photography that is taking place.

I see it in very simple terms. What ISO can I use the camera at before noise overcomes the advantage of the crop sensor and I need to get my convertor and 1DX out. I shoot a lot wide open and use the lowest ISO I can to achieve the result I'm after.

Its not something I would have thought of doing so thanks for pointing it out. When I get the time and a decent day I will take a series reflecting what you've just posted and see what comparisons can be drawn from them

Cheers
 
Gaz J said:
Canon 7D Mark II arrives, eats 1D X for lunch with more horsepower, amazing autofocus system
7D MARK II APS-C CAMERA CAMERA PREVIEW CANON CANON 7D MARK II DIGIC 6DUAL PIXEL CMOS AF

I agree with you that some faulty ones will be user error but some of these claims are coming from photographers who know what they are doing and have probably tested it properly. It seems rare these days for any camera to be fault free.

One thing I have noticed is that area covered by the single AF point seems very large. Its focusing outside the square. I noticed this when photographing small birds on my first outing with it. The square was on the head but move it slightly and it would refocus. Changing to spot focus helped.

I've looked for reviews and most are either pre prod or just spouting specs and theory. I don't necessary want a pro to do it. In my view its the effort that is put into the testing that is important not whether you are an amateur or pro.

I want to see real world examples, like yours, and people saying this is how the camera was set up and showing examples of their images taken. I'm keeping a record of what the camera settings were when I use it and as I get more info then I will post it. The ISO comparisons were a bit rushed and I will redo them when I get a bit better day.
Click to expand...

Hah :D Got to laugh at that. To be honest, any website with that was clearly trying to drum up some traffic for their website!

I've noticed that the AF points are quite large too and if you factor in stuff like people using AI servo when they shouldn't and using the default AF profile on the camera, this can explain a lot of issues.

This shot in particular was a bit of an eye opener for me:

Happy Heron by Phal44, on Flickr


I was finding that having the expanded centre point enabled seemed to cover the bird for the most part but there were bits hanging either side and the AF was flicking between the bird and the water behind. As soon as I went to centre point only it was fine and it's not the kind of shot that I should have had AI Servo for! Since then I've also found the default AF profile and all others have a tracking sensitivity set to 0 or higher and when you're tracking one subject like a bird, this isn't really necessary.

I was looking for any guides on the AF setup for a 7d2 and I didn't find much but I did find this:


Again I haven't really checked into his credentials etc but what he said made sense so I tweaked my settings and dropped the AF sensitivity down. I've not noticed any problems as a result but I've not had it that way for long.

This guy also has a fair bit of detail on his findings with the 7d2 and how he has his setup:

http://www.glennbartley.com/Canon7DmarkIISetupReviewandSettings.html

I posted this link in the other 7d2 thread but there were some good questions asked and answered on possible AF issues:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=24308.0

There's a reason why the AF manual has more than just a few pages and it makes me wonder how many issues people encounter are down to not understanding the tech fully. I don't have a massive amount of experience when it comes to photography and I've only been at it for coming up to 3 years now but I've got quite a lot more experience with computers. New DSLRs, like computers are constantly evolving and they're not getting any simpler which means it's easy to unknowingly make mistakes even with decades of experience. Just because you've been taking pictures for most of your life doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing :)
 
I agree with Lindsay it's not that straightforward comparing crop to full frame
recently I was shooting next to a very experienced photographer who was using a 300 2.8 with a 1.4 tc on a 5D3
We were doing portrait shots of a leopard
I was using a 300 2.8 on my 7D and getting approximately the same portrait shot
I was using F4 and ISO 800 to get enough in focus he was using a smaller aperture at ISO 3200
 
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Phal said:
Hah :D Got to laugh at that. To be honest, any website with that was clearly trying to drum up some traffic for their website!

I've noticed that the AF points are quite large too and if you factor in stuff like people using AI servo when they shouldn't and using the default AF profile on the camera, this can explain a lot of issues.

This shot in particular was a bit of an eye opener for me:

Happy Heron by Phal44, on Flickr


I was finding that having the expanded centre point enabled seemed to cover the bird for the most part but there were bits hanging either side and the AF was flicking between the bird and the water behind. As soon as I went to centre point only it was fine and it's not the kind of shot that I should have had AI Servo for! Since then I've also found the default AF profile and all others have a tracking sensitivity set to 0 or higher and when you're tracking one subject like a bird, this isn't really necessary.

I was looking for any guides on the AF setup for a 7d2 and I didn't find much but I did find this:


Again I haven't really checked into his credentials etc but what he said made sense so I tweaked my settings and dropped the AF sensitivity down. I've not noticed any problems as a result but I've not had it that way for long.

This guy also has a fair bit of detail on his findings with the 7d2 and how he has his setup:

http://www.glennbartley.com/Canon7DmarkIISetupReviewandSettings.html

I posted this link in the other 7d2 thread but there were some good questions asked and answered on possible AF issues:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=24308.0

There's a reason why the AF manual has more than just a few pages and it makes me wonder how many issues people encounter are down to not understanding the tech fully. I don't have a massive amount of experience when it comes to photography and I've only been at it for coming up to 3 years now but I've got quite a lot more experience with computers. New DSLRs, like computers are constantly evolving and they're not getting any simpler which means it's easy to unknowingly make mistakes even with decades of experience. Just because you've been taking pictures for most of your life doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing :)
Click to expand...

You seem to be some sort of wildlife photography expert in your 3 yrs but no photos to show for it and yes i did waste some of my life looking at your flickr.
I've not put anyone on ignore for a while but for you it will be a pleasure :wave:
 
Neil B said:
You seem to be some sort of wildlife photography expert in your 3 yrs but no photos to show for it and yes i did waste some of my life looking at your flickr.
I've not put anyone on ignore for a while but for you it will be a pleasure :wave:
Click to expand...

Well I'm not entirely sure how I managed to get your panties in a twist but perhaps you thought my 'Hah got to laugh at that' comment was about Gaz's entire post? I was referring to the initial sensationalist clickbait crap that someone had used about the then new 7d2:

Canon 7D Mark II arrives, eats 1D X for lunch with more horsepower, amazing autofocus system
7D MARK II APS-C CAMERA CAMERA PREVIEW CANON CANON 7D MARK II DIGIC 6DUAL PIXEL CMOS AF

In any case, thanks for your input...
 
LCPete said:
I agree with Lindsay it's not that straightforward comparing crop to full frame
recently I was shooting next to a very experienced photographer who was using a 300 2.8 with a 1.4 tc on a 5D3
We were doing portrait shots of a leopard
I was using a 300 2.8 on my 7D and getting approximately the same portrait shot
I was using F4 and ISO 800 to get enough in focus he was using a smaller aperture at ISO 3200
Click to expand...
But was that because he knew ISO 3200 would still be fine without really affecting IQ on the 5d3 so was just taking advantage of that?

Using the 6d I often use ISOs I wouldn't dream of on my 50d because I know it doesn't affect the IQ until I go well above 6400, and I might err on the safe side of higher ISOs to get higher shutter speeds.
 
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odd jim said:
But was that because he knew ISO 3200 would still be fine without really affecting IQ on the 5d3 so was just taking advantage of that?

Using the 6d I often use ISOs I wouldn't dream of on my 50d because I know it doesn't affect the IQ until I go well above 6400, and I might err on the safe side of higher ISOs to get higher shutter speeds.
Click to expand...


Yes you have a point there I try to keep below ISO 1600 on my 7D :)
 
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