6400 ISO Sample

TragicDante

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Jonathan
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Here is a sample of the D3's capability at high ISO low light performance. This was shoot in an attic with very very little natural light. No flash was used and no noise reduction software at all was used. Contrast was added in light-room that is all! Shot at F1.8 at 6400 ISO - incredible!
The sample can be viewed here, click to enlarge
I find it very exiting the way technology is heading!

http://tragicdante.deviantart.com/art/6400-ISO-Sample-158002813
 
D3/d700 top cameras in low light - apart from the d3s that is!
 
That is atrociously noisy for a D3! This was shot on my supposedly inferior 1D Mark 3, 140m underground in Wieliczka Salt Mines, so absolutely no natural light and only some subdued church style lighting for shooting in... no NR done or anything, that's straight out of camera!

pope.jpg
 
I was expecting something much better than that, especially given the price of a D3 body and the reputation that Nikon perform better in low light than Canon. My 50d produces about that quality at ISO 3200, which is a camera known for not having amazing low light capabilities and is 1/5th of the price!
 
My camera only goes to ISO3200 :'(

This is the max, no noise reduction, they're not real, they're plastic :)

flart1.jpg
 
I would agree that the example given is not a great one I'm afraid.
 
It's probably just not noise friendly. That shot of mine is noise friendly and makes the camera look good but on others the noise is simply awful.
 
Given the light in that attic was non existent I feel it's impressive, maybe if you seen the level of light I was working with you all l would've been more impressed
!
 
Hi Tragic you have given all the Canon shooters some hope LOL, not a good example of what a d3 can do I'm afraid. Given you were able to shoot at 400th sec suggests there was light available. The key to high ISO shooting is to over expose the image and pull it back in post processing, there are plenty of incredible images shot at 6400 and above with this camera posted elsewhere on the site. Keep playing and it will all fall into place :D
 
There is a lot od black in the image which doesn't help, that will always make noise look worse.

What is the exif info for the image? (shutter speed). Edit 1/400th of a second? :eek: That's loads of light!
I was very happy with my 5D2 shot at 1/30th second 6400 ISO at F2.8, very usable output (and no problems focusing in the that light either!)
 
7D at 6400 ISO, f/2.8, 1/250, cropped and converted in Lightroom with NR at default settings....

20100319_205508_LR.jpg
20100115_205632_2308_LR.jpg
 
I personally find that my D3 about 3200 is noisy but up too that point its fantastic
 
Here is a sample of the D3's capability at high ISO low light performance. This was shoot in an attic with very very little natural light. No flash was used and no noise reduction software at all was used. Contrast was added in light-room that is all! Shot at F1.8 at 6400 ISO - incredible!
The sample can be viewed here, click to enlarge
I find it very exiting the way technology is heading!

http://tragicdante.deviantart.com/art/6400-ISO-Sample-158002813

not a great sample, surprised you find that incredible.
 
...The key to high ISO shooting is to over expose the image and pull it back in post processing...

I'm really struggling with that bit of your post. If you have enough light to over expose why would you not reduce the ISO to improve the noise?
 
I'm really struggling with that bit of your post. If you have enough light to over expose why would you not reduce the ISO to improve the noise?

exposing to the right and reducing exposure in RAW can yeild slightly better results sometimes
 
exposing to the right and reducing exposure in RAW can yeild slightly better results sometimes

Interesting... will have to try it. Us Nikon users have to expose to the left of course; things are backward (I'm an ex-Canon user).
 
I'm really struggling with that bit of your post. If you have enough light to over expose why would you not reduce the ISO to improve the noise?
"Exposing to the right" is a technique for capturing more image data, increasing dynamic range and reducing noise. It is only "overexposure" in the sense that the image looks too bright. It is not overexposure in the sense that you burn out your important highlight details. The explanation for the technique can be found in articles such as these....

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/exposure/exposure.htm

Quite simply, the approach is to expose so that the histogram is biased to the right as far as possible, while avoiding going so far that you clip important highlight details. It is a technique I use often.

In my opinion, the way to do that is to firstly select the aperture you want in order to control DOF, and the shutter speed you want in order to control motion/blur. Once you have those set as you wish you then use the highest (full stop) ISO necessary in order to push the histogram over to the right. e.g. if I have a scene with no highlight detail, which is correctly exposed at 400 ISO, but leaves a large gap on the right of the histogram, I might be better off to increase the ISO to 800 or even 1600. Then, in post, I can reduce the exposure in order to correct the appearance of the scene. This will give me more image data to play around with, and allow me to squeeze noise out of the picture as I reduce the brightness.

That is preferable to underexposing to begin with and then trying to brighten things in post. If you take that approach you will have thrown away image data that can never be salvaged, and will increase noise too, as you try to dig shadow detail out of the depths of the blacks.
 
How do you figure that? Nikon histograms are no different to Canon ones?

It's the way the arrows/lines go when looking in the viewfinder...although I think you can change the direction in newer Nikons.
 
Hmm here's my GF1 'compact' with it's apparently pretty poor low light performance at 3200 ISO. f 1.7 1/60

20100322--1070404-1.jpg


Not amazing I know but not that much worse than the picture in the OP is it? (I know it's not a good picture, it was just a test)
 
It's the way the arrows/lines go when looking in the viewfinder...although I think you can change the direction in newer Nikons.
Aye, but the histogram is the same way round regardless of the camera type. :)
 
Hmm here's my GF1 'compact' with it's apparently pretty poor low light performance at 3200 ISO. f 1.7 1/60

20100322--1070404-1.jpg


Not amazing I know but not that much worse than the picture in the OP is it? (I know it's not a good picture, it was just a test)

Not really comparable. You're at 3200 ISO here and we're talking about 6400 ISO, and your picture is reproduced here at a smaller size, which helps conceal noise. You also haven't mentioned the processing involved and what your NR settings were.
 
Not really comparable. You're at 3200 ISO here and we're talking about 6400 ISO, and your picture is reproduced here at a smaller size, which helps conceal noise. You also haven't mentioned the processing involved and what your NR settings were.

OK but it's not much smaller, and there was no processing apart from adding contrast.

I know it's not the same ISO, but I would have expected a lot more difference from a camera that costs several times as much with a much bigger sensor.

Bigger version...

20100322--1070404-2.jpg
 
It didn't take long for this one to turn into a brand war. 5 or 6 posts by the looks of it. The fact is the D3 was the market leader in high ISO performance. Now it's the D3s.

In terms of getting the best from high ISO's it has to be remembered that exposure has to be spot on - the higher the ISO the less margin for error.
 
"Exposing to the right" is a technique for capturing more image data, increasing dynamic range and reducing noise. It is only "overexposure" in the sense that the image looks too bright. It is not overexposure in the sense that you burn out your important highlight details. The explanation for the technique can be found in articles such as these....

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/exposure/exposure.htm

Quite simply, the approach is to expose so that the histogram is biased to the right as far as possible, while avoiding going so far that you clip important highlight details. It is a technique I use often.

In my opinion, the way to do that is to firstly select the aperture you want in order to control DOF, and the shutter speed you want in order to control motion/blur. Once you have those set as you wish you then use the highest (full stop) ISO necessary in order to push the histogram over to the right. e.g. if I have a scene with no highlight detail, which is correctly exposed at 400 ISO, but leaves a large gap on the right of the histogram, I might be better off to increase the ISO to 800 or even 1600. Then, in post, I can reduce the exposure in order to correct the appearance of the scene. This will give me more image data to play around with, and allow me to squeeze noise out of the picture as I reduce the brightness.

That is preferable to underexposing to begin with and then trying to brighten things in post. If you take that approach you will have thrown away image data that can never be salvaged, and will increase noise too, as you try to dig shadow detail out of the depths of the blacks.

Thanks for explanation and links... my lesson for the day!
 
Thanks for explanation and links... my lesson for the day!

You're welcome.

Here's my take on it, and the way to visualise how things might pan out. The graphic below represents a dynamic range covering several stops, from -10 below the 0 mark on the camera's meter, right up to +6 stops above the 0 point. Typically you will find that cameras will start clipping data at exposures brighter than +3 above the meter. However, between +3 and +4, if you shoot raw you can typically recover quite a bit of data in that zone. Beyond that the data is pure white and is destroyed permanently. If your exposure looks too bright, but contains all the data you require, you can darkenn the image to make it look correct, and at the same time you will be pushing the noisier data deeper down into the invisible blacks, where it will not show up.

Below the 0 mark, the deeper the tones become, the less signal (light) there is and the more intrusive noise becomes, both that occurring naturally in the light itself, plus that which is part of the camera's own electronics. To the far left the noise becomes very bad, and at the extreme left there is no signal at all - everything is pure black and cannot be recovered.

The light blue bars below the main block represents how a scene containing 10 stops of dynamic range might fall within the camera's capability to record those tones, depending upon how brightly you choose to expose. As you increase the exposure you start to push the highlights into the "recovery" zone, but go too far and you end up clipping the brightest parts, which become a pure, featureless white. However, by increasing the exposure you are lifting the shadow details higher above the noise threshold.

Conversely, as you reduce the exposure more and more, you are wasting the dynamic range offered by the camera at the highlight end (the pink areas), while plunging your shadow data deeper and deeper into the noise, ultimately losing it forever as unrecoverable black. If you try to brighten the image in post you will end up brightening the noise in the "noisey zone" along with the image data. Anything that was recorded as pure black can not be restored.

20100322_120145_LR.jpg


It's a crude and simplistic graphic, perhaps not even terribly accurate (although not miles form the truth), but hopefully it helps illustrate the point.

The greater the dynamic range of a scene (think sunny day or any harsh lighting with deep shadows and brilliant highlights), the more important it is that you ETTR in order to maximise the DR offered by the camera. If you have a scene with very low dynamic range, such as a foggy day, when everything is just sort of greyish, then it is not so important to squeeze the last drop of DR from the camera. An exposure centred around the 0 mark should be just fine. However, underexposing is never the best option to pick if you have alternatives available.

By the way, in my basketball shot, posted earlier, you may notice that I pulled down the exposure in Lightroom by 0.7 stops (2/3 stop if you prefer). From this, and looking at the histogram after the edit, you might infer, correctly, that I was ETTRing for all I was worth. At f/2.8 my aperture was wide open, and there was no way I was going to try to shoot basketball at shutter speeds below 1/250. My choice on ISO was to shoot at 3200, and never touch the right hand side of the histogram, or bump it up to 6400 and squeeze my capture into the raw recovery zone, knowing I could pull the exposure back down in post. In so doing, the darker areas of the image, with noise already being of concern, could at least be reduced and dimished, rather than being amplified by brightening them in post.
 
where is the brand war :shrug:

It didn't take long for this one to turn into a brand war. 5 or 6 posts by the looks of it. The fact is the D3 was the market leader in high ISO performance. Now it's the D3s.

In terms of getting the best from high ISO's it has to be remembered that exposure has to be spot on - the higher the ISO the less margin for error.
 
where is the brand war :shrug:

Look at all the negative comments the OP received. Then look at the kit owned by the people making those comments.

Seem pretty obvious to me.........

Whatever, these things are just tools and you just have to make the best of the tools you have.
 
Look at all the negative comments the OP received. Then look at the kit owned by the people making those comments.

Seem pretty obvious to me.........

Whatever, these things are just tools and you just have to make the best of the tools you have.

I don't see a flurry of nikon owners disagreeing with the canon ones saying that this was a good example of high iso performance, seems like the nikon owners agree in this instance the sample given isn't great
 
Ryan, the OP started this, with an unremarkable photo which he referred to as "incredible". Many of us are underwhelmed, regardless of which brand of gear we own. If we think out gear delivers better results, whether Canon, Panasonic, or anything else, is that a "war"?

The second poster said ....

WOW, it's folk like you Johnathan that make people want things they can't afford.

....which is why some of us are doubly confused. In what way does that original image make anybody want to spend money they don't have?

So that's two "Nikon" shooters creaming themselves over a mediocre shot and a third jumping in to defend them. What's that all about?

Once upon a time that image might have been astonishing, but it is now 2010 and times have moved on. What was once perhaps impressive, no longer is. There is no war here, just some photographers who can see nothing to get so excited about.
 
26371_1302410573642_1631801765_727565_242902_n.jpg


Canon 550D , nifty fifty at f2.8 , no flash , on the high iso setting 12800

Had to link to facebook sorry am away from home.
 
Look at all the negative comments the OP received. Then look at the kit owned by the people making those comments.

Seem pretty obvious to me.........

Whatever, these things are just tools and you just have to make the best of the tools you have.

/massive generalization mode on

Gonna get flamed for this but in my experience it's mostly a handful of vocal Nikon owners (not all by any stretch of the imagination!) who crow-on about better ISO performance and seem to get off on trying to rub Canon owners' noses in it.

/massive generalization mode off.
 
Now print it to, say, A1 and let us see what the noise is like considering the appropriate viewing distance for a print that size.

Better yet, print a straight 8 bit A4 jpeg and let us see the noise then...

I am another voter for perfect exposure but Nikon is doing a few things seriously right...
 
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