5DMkiii Vs. 5DMkii + 1DMkiii ?

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aethelstan927

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I can't shake the need I feel to upgrade my camera body!!

I'm currently mainly shooting MMA with a 50D, a Sigma 70-200mm and a Canon 28mm F1.8 (used far more than my 50mm f.18)

The key things I feel I'm missing are ISO performance and in some (but not all) AF performance & i've recently wanted to try video stuff which I can't do at the moment . . .as well as the hassle of only having one body!!
I feel having two would really benefit my shooting!!

I've been lusting after adding a 5D Mkiii to the bag but at 2K its a large chunk of change to spend in one place!
If I went this route I would keep my 50D as a second body because its a perfectly capable camera and I'm sure I can produce great images with it!

The other option to for fill all my wishes as I see it is to get 5D Mkii and a 1DMkiii, that way I get the AF, ISO and video performance spread over the two bodies and it comes in significantly cheaper even before I sell the 50D…..

I don't lose any lens use by switching to EF only mount cameras (I'd sell the 17-85mm with the 50D) my only worry about going down the second route is that I would be buying two cameras released in 2008(5D) and 2007(1D) to replace a 2008 camera and that I'd get bit of improvement but not enough to justify the outlay??

Should I bite the bullet and just spend the cash on the 5Dmkiii or would I be more sensible to buy the two slightly older cameras ? :-S
 
Buy the 5D3. Just bought one. Great camera. Hardly used my 1D MkIV since. Great ISO performance.
 
How about a 6D? Great ISO performance, possibly even better than the 5d3 due to the 6D's slightly smaller sensor, and quite lot cheaper too. I'm extremely happy with mine :)
 
6D unless you need high fps. Spend the saving on glass.

edit: The 6D is similar to a tweaked 5D MKII, but containing a sensor which matches the 5D MKIII.
 
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I've own(ed) all three. There's no contest; get the 5DIII.
 
There is no contest. Only 1Dx can better 5DIII. I have specifically avoided 5DII (a much lesser camera IMHO) and very happy I did.

But should you wish to replace your 50D that will be light years apart from 5D, you could definitely consider a nice used and loved 1DIII. Have a look at the classifieds...
 
I don't think MMA is a sport which would benefit very much from the 5D3's multipoint AF. For my kids Karate I prefered using single point AF with my 7D because zonal multipoint was unable to tell one person from the other or track the torso. I would get too many shots where the focus point was the nearest hand or arse. With single point I just follow the torso for good results. In poor light, I think the 6D's more sensitive central AF point (-1EV better than both 5D3 & 1DX) may be best. Hoever, the extra two fps advantage and larger buffer on the 5D3 may come in handy if you shoot rapid-fire.
 
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Thanks for all the responses :D


Hadn't really considered the 6D will have to seriously consider it now.... Was only the apparently neutered AF that concerned me but good point made about the more sensitive Center point!!
Will have to closely look at how many times I use more than Center point AF.... I suspect it's not going to be much tho!

So seems the consensus is that a 5D mkiii is better than a 5D mkii and 1Dmkiii combined ...?
 
If you want ****-hot autofocus there's only really one choice, the 5DIII. The 6d, 7d can't come close. Also the high ISO performance is excellent.
 
daugirdas said:
There is no contest. Only 1Dx can better 5DIII. I have specifically avoided 5DII (a much lesser camera IMHO) and very happy I did.

But should you wish to replace your 50D that will be light years apart from 5D, you could definitely consider a nice used and loved 1DIII. Have a look at the classifieds...
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Giving advice whilst pointing someone towards a camera that you're selling is seriously bad form.

The 5DII was, and still is, a fantastic camera -albeit with some limitations in terms of AF. However, it wasn't designed as a sports and action monster. Given that codicil, it works remarkably well for sport when used in the right way.
 
Rojibo said:
If you want ****-hot autofocus there's only really one choice, the 5DIII. The 6d, 7d can't come close. Also the high ISO performance is excellent.
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The 5D3 AF is no better than the 6D's if like me you mostly use center print AF. The 6D is at least equal the the 5D3 in this regard. I think the only time I used multi point or zonal AF on my 7D was on the dog, which accounts for much less than 5% of my shots. As I said above, I doubt the 5D3's extra AF modes will help with sports such as MMA (Op's stated reason for buying a camera).
 
Orville said:
As I said above, I doubt the 5D3's extra AF modes will help with sports such as MMA (Op's stated reason for buying a camera).
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You're joking aren't you?

I'd never use the centre point for for something like contact/combat sports.
 
Having looked more closely at the 6D the ISO performance seems incredible!!

The AF on the 6D also seems a lot better than I had assumed, mainly due to a good centre point. . . which is all i really use anyway so no an issue. .

The 6D does still concern me with its lack of CF card slot :/ I'm quite invested in CF cards so that would be an extra cost to factor in.
Also the less than full magnesium alloy body makes me worry it might not be tooooo much fun to use for a long period of time, guess ill have to get my hands on one :D

Then again with the lower cost of the 6D I could always put some of the saving towards exchanging the 50D for 1D series to satisfy my need for a chunky body :P
 
DemiLion said:
You're joking aren't you?

I'd never use the centre point for for something like contact/combat sports.
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May I ask how you get multi point to determine the target, especially if the target is behind an opponent? I have not used the 5D3, but with the 7D single point was the only way I could lock on to whatever I wanted without obtaining random focus points (hands, feet, elbows, wrong person etc). Center point was the most reliable way of shooting what I wanted, rather than what the camera wanted. As far as I am aware the 5D3 is unable to track an individual torso or face during overlapping movement. Maybe it is my lack of technique or the need to shoot wide open which narrows the field too much. Multi point was great at picking out my dog running on a green field, tracking a bird flying, or just about any other isolated moving target, but it is not smart enough to choose what I need when there are multiple moving targets.
 
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Orville said:
May I ask how you get multi point to determine the target, especially if the target is behind an opponent? I have not used the 5D3, but with the 7D single point was the only way I could lock on to whatever I wanted without obtaining random focus points (hands, feet, elbows etc). Center point was the most reliable way of shooting what I wanted, rather than what the camera wanted. As far as I am aware the 5D3 is unable to track an individual torso or face during overlapping movement. Maybe it is my lack of technique or the need to shoot wide open which narrows the field.
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There's a huge difference between single point and centre point.
 
DemiLion said:
There's a huge difference between single point and centre point.
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The center point is a single point. The 6D has 10 other single points and the 5D3 60 others, but the centers can still be used individually.

edit: I now get what you mean, I misread your previous post.. You use points other than center for main focus point. This is always rather tricky for me because I cannot always predict direction of movement, meaning that only points around the center, or immediately above center work well. As I tend to track torso's, center point has always worked best for me (it is conveniently located in a great place). For points other than center the 5D3 will be much better due to it's abundance of crosses.
 
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aethelstan927 said:
I can't shake the need I feel to upgrade my camera body!!

I'm currently mainly shooting MMA with a 50D, a Sigma 70-200mm and a Canon 28mm F1.8 (used far more than my 50mm f.18)

The key things I feel I'm missing are ISO performance and in some (but not all) AF performance & i've recently wanted to try video stuff which I can't do at the moment . . .as well as the hassle of only having one body!!
I feel having two would really benefit my shooting!!

I've been lusting after adding a 5D Mkiii to the bag but at 2K its a large chunk of change to spend in one place!
If I went this route I would keep my 50D as a second body because its a perfectly capable camera and I'm sure I can produce great images with it!

The other option to for fill all my wishes as I see it is to get 5D Mkii and a 1DMkiii, that way I get the AF, ISO and video performance spread over the two bodies and it comes in significantly cheaper even before I sell the 50D…..

I don't lose any lens use by switching to EF only mount cameras (I'd sell the 17-85mm with the 50D) my only worry about going down the second route is that I would be buying two cameras released in 2008(5D) and 2007(1D) to replace a 2008 camera and that I'd get bit of improvement but not enough to justify the outlay??

Should I bite the bullet and just spend the cash on the 5Dmkiii or would I be more sensible to buy the two slightly older cameras ? :-S
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I'd say it depends on how often you'd use either body if you chose having the 2?

I used to have the 5D II and 7D combination before selling up and buying the 5D III.
I found that I was using the 5D 99% of the time unless I was going to a WRC event once maybe twice a year.

Fair enough I've lost the crop of the 7D but knowing I haven't got something sat around collecting dust far outweighs that.
 
Orville said:
The 5D3 AF is no better than the 6D's if like me you mostly use center print AF. The 6D is at least equal the the 5D3 in this regard. I think the only time I used multi point or zonal AF on my 7D was on the dog, which accounts for much less than 5% of my shots. As I said above, I doubt the 5D3's extra AF modes will help with sports such as MMA (Op's stated reason for buying a camera).
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Yeah, that flagship AF system is no better than the basic 550/600d/60d/6d cross type AF system. Don't want to provoke an argument, but you're clearly deluded.
 
Rojibo said:
Yeah, that flagship AF system is no better than the basic 550/600d/60d/6d cross type AF system. Don't want to provoke an argument, but you're clearly deluded.
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Read my comment.

Quote: "The 5D3 AF is no better than the 6D's if like me you mostly use center print AF."

I did not mean to say that that the 6D's AF was better. What I meant was that for center point usage it is at least as good as the 5D3 (Canon officially state the 6D's center point is more sensitive). If (like me) you mostly use center point there is little reason to pay the extra for the 5D3, unless you need it's other features.

For points other than center, or for using multi-zone AF the 5D3 is clearly much better. However, people have been taking outstanding photographs for decades using center-point only, and I would argue that center point performance is arguably the most important area for most shooters.
 
Orville said:
Read my comment.

Quote: "The 5D3 AF is no better than the 6D's if like me you mostly use center print AF."

I did not mean to say that that the 6D's AF was better. What I meant was that for center point usage it is at least as good as the 5D3 (Canon officially state the 6D's center point is more sensitive). If (like me) you mostly use center point there is little reason to pay the extra for the 5D3, unless you need it's other features.

For points other than center, or for using multi-zone AF the 5D3 is clearly much better. However, people have been taking outstanding photographs for decades using center-point only, and I would argue that center point performance is arguably the most important area for most shooters.
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You are potentially missing out on quite a lot if you limit yourself to centre point ;) It is most likely true unless you (generic) only shoot landscapes and interiors.
 
Thanks for all the replies :D

Would you consider the 5Dmkii , 6D or 1Dmkiii to have the better ISO performance?? :D
 
daugirdas said:
You are potentially missing out on quite a lot if you limit yourself to centre point ;) It is most likely true unless you (generic) only shoot landscapes and interiors.
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Perhaps, but it is a style that I am used to (centre focus and recompose), and it is not always possible to chose a more appropriate focus point beforehand (not all subjects are predictable). With my 7D it took half a second to focus and recompose, or no time at all to shoot centre point and crop afterwrds. For me, it takes longer to manually select an outer focus poing or focus group, and then focus. I am not saying that the 6D wouldn't benefit from more focus points, but the AF is more than adequate for most occasions. Canon had to gimp it in some way to differentiate it from the 5D3, and don't forget there were hundreds of thousands of happy 5D2 owners who "made-do" with a slightly inferior AF setup.
 
Orville said:
Perhaps, but it is a style that I am used to (centre focus and recompose), and it is not always possible to chose a more appropriate focus point beforehand (not all subjects are predictable). With my 7D it took half a second to focus and recompose, or no time at all to shoot centre point and crop afterwrds. For me, it takes longer to manually select an outer focus poing or focus group, and then focus. I am not saying that the 6D wouldn't benefit from more focus points, but the AF is more than adequate for most occasions. Canon had to gimp it in some way to differentiate it from the 5D3, and don't forget there were hundreds of thousands of happy 5D2 owners who "made-do" with a slightly inferior AF setup.
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So let's get this straight....


You're recommending a camera that effectively has only one operational AF point, but balancing that off by suggesting the use of 'focus and recompose' or just sticking to centre point, and that also has a slow fps, for a fast moving dynamic sport usually shot in low light....


are you starting to see any of the problems yet?
 
DemiLion said:
So let's get this straight....


You're recommending a camera that effectively has only one operational AF point, but balancing that off by suggesting the use of 'focus and recompose' or just sticking to centre point, and that also has a slow fps, for a fast moving dynamic sport usually shot in low light....


are you starting to see any of the problems yet?
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Yeah, no one could use the 6D in a fast action situation with light so low you can't even see your watch. Oh, wait... http://www.kennyswan.dk/galleries.php?gallery=Live Music&image_set=Helhorse
 
DemiLion said:
So let's get this straight....


You're recommending a camera that effectively has only one operational AF point, but balancing that off by suggesting the use of 'focus and recompose' or just sticking to centre point, and that also has a slow fps, for a fast moving dynamic sport usually shot in low light....


are you starting to see any of the problems yet?
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Why are you being argumentative, have I offended you in some way?

The 6D suits my shooting style. Sure, the camera is not perfect (none are), but I do not need 10fps, 8fps or even 4.5fps for anything I shoot (including Karate and Football). I also do not need complex AF (I rarely used it on the 7D), and I really don't understand how you can blindly argue how I and others should use a camera. The only things I miss from my 7D vs the 6D are the build quality and the joystick.

For a fast moving low light sport, I prefer accurate/sensitive AF and great high-ISO capability. The centre point on the 6D is more sensitve than any other Canon camera (1DX included), and it's high ISO capability matches anything available for twice the price.

I am not preaching, merely saying what works well for me. It may or may not work for others and there is no black and white answer to what works best for all. Perhaps if I was a Pro I would shoot otherwise, and I may actually need 10fps to ensure I get that killer shot, but I am not a Pro and missing the odd frame is no big problem. I do not require a 5D3 or a 1D body for my needs, although I would probably have bought the 5D3 if it wasn't 70% more expensive than the 6D.

In answer to your question, No, I do not see any problems with the way I use my camera.
 
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DemiLion said:
Now show me some shots that equate to MMA, rather than a singer bouncing about on relatively the same spot.
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This is one of the posts which swayed me towards buying a 6D. It is not MMA, but shot within a very similar enviroment.

There are also lots of 6D sports shots (along with many amazing non-sports shots) within this thread too.
 
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These posts reek of self justification/buyers remorse. It's probably better to give the OP an unbiased view across the systems. But I'd say at this point the only way to get that across is to go and actually use the cameras.
 
I think trying the cameras out is the next step!!!


I did manage to speak to a few other togs last night at an event I was covering the general consensus was that the 5dmkii is useable and can get you by if need be but that the 5Dmkiii AF system is a beast!! When paired with a decent lens anyways.....

Now to find somewhere with a selection of 5Ds , 6D and 1Dmkiiis!!
 
aethelstan927 said:
I don't lose any lens use by switching to EF only mount cameras (I'd sell the 17-85mm with the 50D) my only worry about going down the second route is that I would be buying two cameras released in 2008(5D) and 2007(1D) to replace a 2008 camera and that I'd get bit of improvement but not enough to justify the outlay??
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Once you use a 1d for your specific application, you'll realise how well spent the outlay was. It may be of a similar era to the 50D but it's still a wildly different beast.

I thought similar before going from a 40D to a 5D (My application is still-life, portraits and landscapes), thinking I might be disappointed because it was 'older tech'. A day with the latter shut me up good and proper.

My recommendation for you would be to pick up a tidy 1DIII that's outside the AF issue bracket and go from there. A lot of people don't realise quite how good that 1.2x sensor is for things other than fast action.
 
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