50mg/100ml Drink Driving Limit in Scotland

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Lets be very clear here ST4 & Barratt. 150% of the drink drive limit is about 2 pints.

So hardly 'missed' for most people as you put it barratt.

Quite apart from it being counter productive, people may well stand here and say "drink driving, hang ''em", and then go and do exactly that! The last time the new limit in Scotland was brought up, someone suggested the limit should be brought down to a pint. It already is around a pint, so what that showed is that people have got no idea, none at all about drinking and driving.

I am no defending it at all, personally I think it should be a zero limit, then there's no doubt in peoples minds. It's no couple of pints and thinking "Oh it'll be OK".

he real issue here is that if i drove missed the chance of gettin caught is so slim because police have there fingers in there backsides and there are far to few of them. The world has gone so pc and the police are scared to police anything. if an asian person were caught drink driving the world may very well implode.
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Correct, there aren't enough Police on the Streets, but thats a different subject. Having nicked at least one of just about every racial group you can name for drink drive, no it doesn't, nor do police officers think it will as a result.
 
Bernie174 said:
It already is around a pint, so what that showed is that people have got no idea, none at all about drinking and driving..
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I suspect that you maybe right TBH.
And of course the safe option, as already mentioned is
don't do it at all.

I'm not sure if its an urban myth, but I did read somewhere,
that even some cough mixtures show up?
Any idea if this is true? and if so, can it be differentiated?
 
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Cobra said:
I suspect that you maybe right TBH.
And of course the safe option, as already mentioned is
don't do it at all.

I'm not sure if its an urban myth, but I did read somewhere,
that even some cough mixtures show up?
Any idea if this is true? and if so, can it be differentiated?
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Benylin does contain alcohol as do certain foods etc. Its why the limit cannot be set at 0. The 50mg limit is inspiring debate though, over in work people are now discussing what they drink and when it's safe to drive a car the day after, if at all. Because its reduced to the extent where any drink is likely to put you close to or over the limit, people hopefully will desist from drink driving.

I've yet to see any outrage from the Whisky distillers.
 
Just to throw a spanner in the works - some people actually function better after a drink.

Cognitive functioning is relevant to driving. Think back to old days of darts and snooker.
 
dinners said:
Just to throw a spanner in the works - some people actually function better after a drink.

Cognitive functioning is relevant to driving. Think back to old days of darts and snooker.
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Thats done it! :runaway:

:D
 
I'm not sure if its an urban myth, but I did read somewhere,
that even some cough mixtures show up?
Any idea if this is true? and if so, can it be differentiated?
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It is true that some medicines contain a very very small amount of alcohol. Thats why you are asked before a test if you've used mouthwash, smoked, or taken anything in the last 20 minutes. If you have they they wait.

However, the amount is so low it wouldn't register unless you've taken a couple of pints of it, which would mean you have committed the offence of having a BAC above the prescribed limit anyway. Same with mouthwash. Last time I was tested I'd just had a cigarette, thats alleged to cause a false reading, yet I still blew a big fat zero.

ST4, I'll say it again, it can be zero, and is for certain classes of drivers in some Counties. Stories of food, medicine and mouthwash are complete cobblers.

People preform better after alcohol? I think you'll find thats a fairy tale.
 
Bernie174 said:
It is true that some medicines contain a very very small amount of alcohol. Thats why you are asked before a test if you've used mouthwash, smoked, or taken anything in the last 20 minutes. If you have they they wait.
.
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Thanks :thumbs:
 
dinners said:
Just to throw a spanner in the works - some people actually function better after a drink.

Cognitive functioning is relevant to driving. Think back to old days of darts and snooker.
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Maybe more true to say that some people think they perform better with alcohol.

Remember Big Bill Weberniuck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Werbeniuk

Wiki says that he drank between 30 & 50 pints of lager per day. Don't know where they got that figure. I recall the times when he played and hearing him say his consumption was around 18 pints per day.

Back to the point. If folk are worried about driving over the limit in the morning after the night before then buy an alcometer and self test. Only drive if you get a zero reading.
Probably just a matter of time until vehicles are fitted with alcolocks. http://ec.europa.eu/transport/wcm/road_safety/erso/knowledge/Content/04_esave/alcolocks.htm
 
dinners said:
Just to throw a spanner in the works - some people actually function better after a drink.

Cognitive functioning is relevant to driving. Think back to old days of darts and snooker.
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I thought it was because the people in question were such chronic alcoholics the DTs stopped them from functioning so they needed alcohol to stop the shaking?
 
Werbeniuk and the others who had their intake curtailed had it done because the sedative effects were similar to those of beta blockers. IIRC he got through a pint or so per frame.
 
srichards said:
I thought it was because the people in question were such chronic alcoholics the DTs stopped them from functioning so they needed alcohol to stop the shaking?
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Sort of yes.

Somebody who is alcohol dependent can be all over the place when sober.

Problem is - top up factor / one isn't enough, however (speaking hypothetically) for some one drink can result in an improvement.
 
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i am sure i read some where that coke contains alcohol dont know how true that is but i drink the stuff like water so if it is true i could be over the limit
 
hoochy1 said:
i am sure i read some where that coke contains alcohol dont know how true that is but i drink the stuff like water so if it is true i could be over the limit
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Probably the same article that says it melts pennies.
 
Cobra said:
And cleans bogs,
I know that one is a lie I've tried it :D
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Next time try Domestos (other bleaches are available) :-)
 
Anybody ever had one of those home testers ?

A friend of mine had one a while back and if I'm honest it was a bit of fun but I'd seriously consider one now for morning driving.

I guess they would come with a huge disclaimer and shouldn't be trusted but even a rough measure might give people a reality check.
 
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I wonder what will happen to insurance costs?
There are insurance policies available for non-drinkers.

Radio 2 was talking about home testers the other day, Phil. One of the experts reckoned they were not accurate enough to ensure that you would be under the limit.
 
Radio 2 was talking about home testers the other day, Phil. One of the experts reckoned they were not accurate enough to ensure that you would be under the limit.
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The ones that a the old style crystal tube you blow through, I'd not even think about. At best they give you a clue, and mostly they were dammed right wrong.

The other ones, the electronic things, the cheap ones? Well, they cost from £50 to £150 from memory. The ones we used were nearer £1000. leaving aside Police Forces often pay way over the odds for things, the price difference should tell you all you need to know. In case it doesn't, don't bother.

If you are daft enough to buy one, remember that it only gives you a reading of your BAC at the time you take it. it doesn't mean 30 minutes later thats the same. If you drink for an evening in a pub, and go for it then your body takes time to get the Alcohol into your blood stream. So your BAC can keep going up for a considerable amount of time after you stop drinking. If you insist on trusting one of these over the counter toys, take one, then another 30 minutes later and before you drive. Whatever the result though please remember its no better than a rough guide. 10 minutes later you could be over on a proper machine. You can moan and complain if that happens, but no one is going to listen.
 
New limit is a great idea.
Zero limit is unpolicable in out legal system due certain diets, mouthwashes and some medication.
We will follow shortly as we need to follow europe (unless UKIP get in)
 
StewartR said:
I don't think it's at all reasonable for a teetotaller to make a suggestion like that.
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ST4 said:
Why is that?

If alochol was say £10-£15 per unit in shops and pubs, people would be priced into drinking more moderately. It would therefore reduce the amount of drink driving and the extent of people being over the limit.
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The point is that it's very easy to say something should be banned / restricted / controlled / made more expensive when you yourself don't partake of that activity. You're not making a reasoned assessment of the pros and cons of the course of action you're recommending, because to you there are no cons.

Let's try an analogy. Suppose I were to argue that all cars should by law have an onboard computer which prevents the car exceeding the speed limit and which takes control of the car if it detects inappropriate speed or road position. We all know the first of these is possible and the second probably isn't very far off, so it's not a totally fanciful demand. Now if I said I drive 25,000 miles per year and these changes would cause me considerable inconvenience but nevertheless I feel they are justified by the road safety benefits, you might well disagree with me but I think you'd probably realise that I had considered it properly and you'd respect my view. But if I said I don't drive a car, and I don't see the need for them, then I think you would probably not respect my opinion quite so much.
 
Zero limit is unpolicable in out legal system due certain diets, mouthwashes and some medication.
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I don't think it's rubbish, I know it to be.

It is no more un policable that the current limit.

There are a number of countries that have a zero limit, including Australia and New Zealand for certain classes of driver. They manage perfectly well

Diets don't have any impact on your BAC.

Mouthwash? Unless you drink it, which you don't, will only have an impact for a few minutes, and thats only because its still in your mouth.

Medication? if you take it, with the levels there are in any medicine, it'll be out of your blood stream within minutes.
 
dinners said:
Anybody ever had one of those home testers ?

A friend of mine had one a while back and if I'm honest it was a bit of fun but I'd seriously consider one now for morning driving.

I guess they would come with a huge disclaimer and shouldn't be trusted but even a rough measure might give people a reality check.
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They do come with disclaimers, but that is to ward off legal claims if someone gets done following a faulty reading. Unless the makers are telling porkies they seem to be very accurate.
http://www.alcodigital.co.uk/2_alcohol/scotland.html?gclid=COaKgvW6pMICFUzMtAod_EsA

I think that a problem exists due to a lack of planning on when to drink and when not to drink. If you get up in the morning and test yourself (or if you know that you are impaired) and the reading is over the limit what will you do if you have already arranged to drive to work etc. I suspect that is when many people make the decision to rely on not getting caught.
 
Having lost a couple of friends due to drink driving, yes one was the driver, I just don't drink if I am driving
and as my job relies on my licence I rarely drink at all these days.
Sad story though, one lady I knew many years ago, her husband had driven home from the pub for years
without incident, the decided not too after someone they knew was involved in an accident, a few nights later
was knocked over and killed in a hot and run accident on his walk home from the pub.
I totally approve of Scotland's decision hopefully we wll follow suit
 
StewartR said:
The point is that it's very easy to say something should be banned / restricted / controlled / made more expensive when you yourself don't partake of that activity. You're not making a reasoned assessment of the pros and cons of the course of action you're recommending, because to you there are no cons.

Let's try an analogy. Suppose I were to argue that all cars should by law have an onboard computer which prevents the car exceeding the speed limit and which takes control of the car if it detects inappropriate speed or road position. We all know the first of these is possible and the second probably isn't very far off, so it's not a totally fanciful demand. Now if I said I drive 25,000 miles per year and these changes would cause me considerable inconvenience but nevertheless I feel they are justified by the road safety benefits, you might well disagree with me but I think you'd probably realise that I had considered it properly and you'd respect my view. But if I said I don't drive a car, and I don't see the need for them, then I think you would probably not respect my opinion quite so much.
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I know what you're getting at, and I'd support such devices in cars. Fully.

I also used to drink but chose to give up, I've seen both sides of the coin.

Try giving up drink and see how your view will change.
 
dinners said:
Just to throw a spanner in the works - some people actually function better after a drink.
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Yep and i'm a better dancer and more attractive to women after 8 pints as well :whistling:
 
big soft moose said:
Yep and i'm a better dancer and more attractive to women after 8 pints as well :whistle:
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And stop spilling it on your keyboard,
as your spelling goes to hell too :p
 
ooops
 
Step in the right direction, it will now make people who would have two pints maybe now have one, they may well be over the new limit but are probably safer than before if that makes sense.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
After they've had 8 pints? :eek:
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I'm definitely more attractive to women when they are drunk ;) - when i'm drunk and they arent its more of a perception than a reality.
 
My wife is doing her nut while reading this thread.....

She would like to make it clear as a doctor and having a little knowledge in the human anatomy that everyone produces alcohol on a day to day basis, we in fact NEED it as part of our metabolism, it's a natural by-product from the bacteria in our gut, this is why zero would not be completely controllable depending on the persons circumstances and health at the time.
Anyway, my view, I've been convicted twice of drink driving. My first conviction was in 2002 for 42mg per 100 breath, my second was 72 per 100. I'm not a nasty piece of low life scum, I'm just an idiot that got caught at the right time. It's not the alcohol that's the problem, it's the misuse of such.

My own view after attending the alcohol awareness course is that it should be at a zero tolerance policy, permitting natural levels in the blood of course, but even after a pint of bitter I feel a bit more relaxed, this means I could in fact cause serious harm as I'm not fully capable of working out my situation - I.e. Going through an amber light.
It's easier to call a cab than spend a night in a cell on a granite bed, trust me, I speak from experience. Reducing the limit will not ruin the pub industry, the gov are doing that with the taxes, it's just making it clearer who are offending.
There are 2 traffic cops in my family and both of them gave me the talk, I'm a complete cock for what I did and I'm ashamed for what I did.
Anyway, remember - it's easier to walk to the co op than drive this Christmas, if you've had a skinful or even a few port glasses the night before - do your family a favour and walk, I've had 27 months of reasons why I'm a cock for not being able to drive including not being able to drive my wife to hospital while she was in labour!!
 
Flightphoto said:
I'm a complete cock for what I did
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looking on the brightside if you can admit it and learn from it you must only be a partial cock ;) its not like you're claiming it happened to 'your mate' or crying about the conviction being unfair.

Given that my mate alex was killed by a drunk driver (knocked off his motorbike by a guy who was twice over the legal limit who didnt stop - and when stopped by the police had no clear recollection of what he'd done or how he came to have a bike shaped dent in the front of his car) I tend to agree that as near zero as makes no difference is the way to go... say 20mg would allow for natural alcohol and mouthwashes etc but mean that even a half pint would put most people over. and stiffer penalties for those caught.

no disrespect intended but imo getting caught twice should be a lifetime ban
 
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