50mg/100ml Drink Driving Limit in Scotland

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Scotland reduced the drink driving limit to 50mg/100ml of blood w.e.f today. What do you all think; is this too strict, about right or just a step in the right direction? Will England and Wales follow suit, I know it's under consideration in NI.

FWIW, I don't drink and it's not going to affect me directly.
 
I'd be happy for it to be effectively zero. I don't think it can be actually zero for reasons I don't remember.

I do think the message should be, don't push it, don't even think about it.
 
The body can produce alcohol naturally on it's own so true zero was never a viable option.

Because of this I think 'zero tolerance' is proposed as 20mg/100ml so we're not far of with 50mg.

I long stopped taking any drink if I was driving but I guess the key message now is to think about what you're doing the next day.

Working from home is great ;)
 
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It's the same as Australia already has, their philosophy is, if you're driving don't drink - at all. Sounds like a plan to me.
 
Sounds like a good idea. It is not zero for the reasons above but it is now low enough that not drinking at all if you are driving is probably the best option. Many countries have low limits that seem to work perfectly well.

Dave
 
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It will be the day after for some folk.
I'm in the no drink camp. I can always have a glass of wine when I get home.
 
this is all well and good and I agree that you either drink of drive.. but you go out Friday night and then drive Saturday morning.... how do you know if you can legally drive? you feel fine. not hungover. you weren't drinking excessively the night before but your still over this limit.

I work at a brewery and I can tell you for a fact that your 4% beer isn't 4%. the lower you make the alcohol % allowed the more this allowed discrepancy will bite you.

and what is 50mg/100ml it terms of ml's of a 4% beer?
 
I'm teetotal.

Whilst this is an admirable enough idea I doubt they've really thought it through. I was initially wholeheartedly for it.

1. Those that drink drive are usually well over the. 80mg limit anyway
2. It's not that enforceable.
3. Is someone with 55mg really that big a danger anyway.
4. All those terrible sober drivers can still kill each other anyway.

What I do like is it makes the limit much less ambiguous. Have 1 drink and you'll be over the limit. With the 80mg limit it's touch and go with respect to one or even two drinks.

Perhaps though the tiers of punishment should be different . Someone over the 80mg limit should and does face a 12month ban. For 50-80mg the punishment should be a lesser ban, perhaps 6 months.

Still as no one here drinks and drives I can't see how this threads got lift in it.
 
ST4 said:
Perhaps though the tiers of punishment should be different . Someone over the 80mg limit should and does face a 12month ban. For 50-80mg the punishment should be a lesser ban, perhaps 6 months.
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Do they not already ?

I thought if you blew a bit over the limit it was different to if you went right off the scale ?

That said:

If you're nicked on the way home from the pub after 2 or 3 tea time pints then more fool you.

If you're nicked on the way home from the pub after 12 pints and 10 drams then you probably weren't fit to know whether you should be driving or not.
 
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barratt1988 said:
this is all well and good and I agree that you either drink of drive.. but you go out Friday night and then drive Saturday morning.... how do you know if you can legally drive?
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If you have to drive on Saturday morning, don't drink on Friday night. My livelihood depends on my being able to drive so I simply don't drink if I'm going to be driving that night or the next day, since I can never be certain I'm clear of alcohol.
 
how it currently works is you get a bigger ban if you have a higher paid job. if your a dole dosser you end up payin a few quid. you get a ban .. this depends on what you job is (if your tony pulis ex stoke manager and full of crap you get off with no ban) and the day of the week. there isn't enough of a set punishment for people. and surprisingly its a lot of older people who drink and drive but these aren't caught as there doing it at pubs in the countryside. but as we know the speed limits around these areas is often 60mph. so I agree the chance of hitting someone increases but your far less likely to walk away from a 120mph impact that that younger idiot (I can say that as im 26 lol) driving home from town doing 15mph (like the drugs scene on the detectives tv show) because he's aware he's being an idiot where as the old guy learned to drive when you did as you wanted
 
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Steep said:

If you have to drive on Saturday morning, don't drink on Friday night. My livelihood depends on my being able to drive so I simply don't drink if I'm going to be driving that night or the next day, since I can never be certain I'm clear of alcohol.
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I have to drive every day. the time varies so your saying I can never drink again? :S

I hate drink drivers but when you read in the paper about a death the idiot driver is always way way over the limit
 
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barratt1988 said:
I have to drive every day. the time varies so your saying I can never drink again? :confused:

I hate drink drivers but when you read in the paper about a death the idiot driver is always way way over the limit
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What about all the 'little' accidents that cause damage and do harm but don't make the papers? My decision not to drive after drinking is my choice based on my experience and as I said my wish to remain employed. Lucky for me I don't always have to drive on my days off.
 
but my point is do as you with the limit but people will ignore it just as they do now. so all your doing is penalising those who wish to go to the pub to have a pint and then drive home.

does anyone know how much we can legally drink currently? just out of curiosity? for example a 83kg male drinking say carling for example? how much can he drink?
 
barratt1988 said:
for example a 83kg male drinking say carling for example? how much can he drink?
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Doesn't work like that I'm afraid. It's not an exact science. My metabolism will vary to the next person regardless of weight.
 
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dinners said:
Doesn't work like that I'm afraid. It's not an exact science.
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that is exactly my point. changing it to 50mg/100ml isn't going to help anything. and even if you could to the maths your not going to know the exact % of the drink so its all rubbish.

we just need to throw the book at idiots who are way over the limit. because for many its clearly still an attractive prospect to drink and drive.

anyways am bored now so am off to the pub.. where are my car keys?
 
barratt1988 said:
that is exactly my point. changing it to 50mg/100ml isn't going to help anything. and even if you could to the maths your not going to know the exact % of the drink so its all rubbish.
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That's the point they're making up here.

There's no longer any maths to do. :stop:
 
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barratt1988 said:
I work at a brewery and I can tell you for a fact that your 4% beer isn't 4%. the lower you make the alcohol % allowed the more this allowed discrepancy will bite you.
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What?
barratt1988 said:
and what is 50mg/100ml it terms of ml's of a 4% beer?
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50 mg/100mL is the same as 0.05%. I don't believe you will ever get an answer of how much alcohol does it take to get a 0.05% in blood as there are too many variables such as what you have eaten, height, weight, body fat, age, time since consumption etc
 
To be honest I cannot see how this can be seen as anything but a positive step, I've had to blow in the little box 3 times in my life and each time I've blown a big fat zero, and for the majority of my working life I've worked in the hospitality industry either as a bar manager or as DJ supplier, I've seen the peril that is drink drivers far too many times, and sadly it's rarely the drunk that is hurt in crashes it's nearly always the innocent party and anything to make sure as many as possible are put away for this the better
 
I posted this on another forum in relation to the extent of drink driving

Twice legal limit

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...r-news/jailed-drunk-driver-who-killed-8072896

well pished

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29476993

3 times over limit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-30191924


3 times over limit repeat offender

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/lo...d-wheel-for-third-time-in-two-years-1-6459974

1 in 6 accidents caused by a drink driver - 5/6 caused by a sober one

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/10347797/Drink-driving-deaths-increase.html

Googling drink driving reveals news links for drivers well over the 80mg limit. Like alcohol consumption in Britain, its usually excessive to the point of inebriation, so thats the picture of drink driving here.

The answer is to make alcohol itself harder to get and more expensive and cut back licencing hours in my view.
 
If you need to drive, don't drink. If you want to drink, don't drive. It's really not difficult. Get a taxi home or organise a designated non drinking driver.

It's not beyond the wit of men to manage this.

There is no level of alcohol in the system which doesn't cause impairment. Scientific fact.

“There is no BAC level at which impairment does not occur”10


Between 1/8th and 1⁄4 of our legal limit, impairment of Wakefulness was found in half or more of the tests, producing Drowsiness in impaired drivers at low BAC levels. Further evidence of this danger came in 2002 from Professor Jim Horne and scientists at the Sleep Research Centre in Loughborough University, who found that:


“...because of the natural afternoon “dip” in alertness, even after a normal night’s sleep, then a modest alcohol intake at lunchtime (giving BACs well within the “pass” range for police roadside breathalysers) presents a potential danger to driving at this time...”11


Research has shown that the complete impact of a road crash is over in one fifth of a second 12 - which is why a millisecond’s doze at the wheel due to drowsiness caused by a low intake of alcohol, can have such fatal and tragic consequences, with driver sleepiness a factor in about 10% of road crashes in France,13 16% on major roads in England and over 20% on midland motorways in England.14


But drowsiness is not the only impairment found at under 1⁄4 of our legal limit.


Impairment was also found at this low BAC level for Psychomotor Skills (for instance body balance and skilled physical tasks); for Tracking (for instance steering within lane limits while monitoring the driving environment); and for Cognitive Tasks (information processing, such as the time a driver needs to read a street sign or recognise and respond to a traffic signal, or make a decision).


The impairment of Information Processing skills at low BAC levels takes us to one of the greatest dangers of the first drink’s effect upon driving ability.


Alcohol impairs sensible decision-making.15 It distorts our ability to process information and therefore impairs our ability to assess our own competence to drive.16 After a drink, you may not feel intoxicated and may believe you can drive safely. 17 This is due to impairment of your brain’s cognitive processing capability. As Forensic Physician Dr Morris Odell puts it:


“The problem is that most people feel fine at low blood alcohol levels, so they don’t realise they’re already at risk.”18

The above was from an anti drink drive campaign scientific summary from 2005.
 
Lots of misconceptions here.

On zero blood Alcohol concentration, yes it is possible. It's alcohol in your blood, not in your body. If you have had nothing to drink, then your reading will be zero. Just like mine's been on the 3 occasions I've been tested.

The only truly safe level of alcohol is zero, there is nothing to stop you going to a pub and drinking coke/orange juice/water.

Thew amount of alcohol in 1.25 pints of 'normal strength beer' (Not my definition) will put you over the E&W/NI limit. thats 2.5 units.

However, as you drink it you loose it, and how quickly that happens depends on your size, sex, age, metabolism and what you have eaten. In other words, the equation to calculate it would contain so many variables you can't know it's not worth trying to do. Again, takes us back to the point above, the safest way is not to drink, and then you'll be zero.

Having a BAC above the prescribed limit is only one of the drink drive offences, there's also driving while unfit through drink or drugs, you can be that, but below the prescribed limit. Oh, and just so you are aware, unfit through drugs isn't just turbo cabbage it includes prescription and over the counter medications if they affect you.

Will E&W follow Scotland? Not at the moment, no. If it is shown to be successful, then I would guess in 2/3 years then yes they it will change.
 
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The 1 in 6 to 5 in 6 stats would only be relevant if the numbers of drunk drivers were equal to the number of sober ones.
 
Googling drink driving reveals news links for drivers well over the 80mg limit. Like alcohol consumption in Britain, its usually excessive to the point of inebriation, so thats the picture of drink driving here.
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No iot isn't.

Most of those I've arrested for drink drive have had a breath result around the 50/60 mark. Thats no where near the point of being drunk for most of us.

Ignorance of the amount of drink that puts you over the link means people assume things.

twice the limit is 5 units. 5 units is about 2.5 pints.

three times over the limit is 6.75 units roughly. So thats 3.75 pints.

Four times the limit is 5 pints. Yes, I'd be reasonably drunk at that point. Not everyone will be, it depends on tolerance, metabolism size etc.

The worst drink drive I ever arrested blew 140 or so. She showed no signs of being drunk, and apart from the minor traffic offence I stopped her for he driving was fine in fact I nearly didn't breath test her.
 
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Bernie174 said:
No iot isn't.

Most of those I've arrested for drink drive have had a breath result around the 50/60 mark. Thats no where near the point of being drunk for most of us.

Ignorance of the amount of drink that puts you over the link means people assume things.

twice the limit is 5 units. 5 units is about 2.5 pints.

three times over the limit is 6.75 units roughly. So thats 3.75 pints.

Four times the limit is 5 pints. Yes, I'd be reasonably drunk at that point. Not everyone will be, it depends on tolerance, metabolism size etc.

The worst drink drive I ever arrested blew 140 or so. She showed no signs of being drunk, and apart from the minor traffic offence I stopped her for he driving was fine in fact I nearly didn't breath test her.
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I googled drink driving deaths and found that list of drunkards.

It seems the news worthy offs where folk die involve those well over the limit.

As you said the alcohol metabolises so they've probably drunk more than what you listed as it's breaking down all the time from consumption, to driving, to being stopped.

As for the 1/6 vs 5/6 how can we tell how many drink drivers go undetected. Plenty as I know of those who routinely drive well over her limit a lot who've never been caught. They walk amongst us. Or should I say drive.
 
ST4 said:
The answer is to make alcohol itself harder to get and more expensive and cut back licencing hours in my view.
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Sorry mate i have to disagree with this last part. All thats going to do is close the brewerys, p*** off normal everyday drinkers, open up a 'black market'and line the pockets of the tax man. Do you think people have quit smokin due to the goverbment puttin the price up so much? No they now smoke foreign crap there buyin off fb and such.

Its already at least £3.50 a pint everywhere. Out of that the brewery gets a few pence, the pubs get a bit but obviously its not enough as so many pubs are closing and the taxman gets most.

If you said its 5year jail sentence and acrually have police pullin ppl over and having roadblocks itl decrease.
 
I dunno like, make it hard to get the routine drinkers will desist from drinking so much, there will always be the hardened nutter that goes the home brew/black market route, and you can toughen the punishments up for those over the dui limit. If less people drank there would be less drink driving, and if those who did drink, drunk less, there would be less morning after the night before cases. Many go on nights out, get sloshed, then drive the next day. If they drank less they'd not be over the limit, or better still, didn't drink at all.

Everyday drinks are perfectly capable of drink driving, I know of two done for drink driving, not heavy drinkers at all. A pint at lunch. If that pint was like a tenner, he might have not had that but a half and been under.

To detect drink driving is a highly manual process, its not like speeding where they set a trap or camera and watch the ££ roll in as people speed past it.

The loss of some pubs and brewerys isn't a massive concern, people don't have to drink alcohol in pubs and people/drinks makers can make non alcoholic drinks. No, the problem with drink driving is the drinking.
 
ST4 said:
As for the 1/6 vs 5/6 how can we tell how many drink drivers go undetected. Plenty as I know of those who routinely drive well over her limit a lot who've never been caught. They walk amongst us. Or should I say drive.
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Exactly. Which is why it's a useless stat.
 
ST4 said:
The answer is to make alcohol itself harder to get and more expensive and cut back licencing hours in my view.
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I don't think it's at all reasonable for a teetotaller to make a suggestion like that.
 
StewartR said:
I don't think it's at all reasonable for a teetotaller to make a suggestion like that.
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Why is that?

If alochol was say £10-£15 per unit in shops and pubs, people would be priced into drinking more moderately. It would therefore reduce the amount of drink driving and the extent of people being over the limit.

What I actually do is totally irrelevent. Of course those who drink will be up in arms about it, but hey, thats life. I've given my view on the matter and that is that.
 
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ST4 said:
Why is that?

If alochol was say £10-£15 per unit in shops and pubs, people would be priced into drinking more moderately. It would therefore reduce the amount of drink driving and the extent of people being over the limit.

What I actually do is totally irrelevent. Of course those who drink will be up in arms about it, but hey, thats life. I've given my view on the matter and that is that.
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We'd end up like the Norwegians, distilling in the bath tub because booze is too expensive to buy.
 
Steep said:
We'd end up like the Norwegians, distilling in the bath tub because booze is too expensive to buy.
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A few would, a lot would just drink less. Throw in very hard draconian punishments for drink driving, being drunk etc in the way class a drug offences are dealt with, you'd get compliance.

It's my view and it's something I would love to happen, but it never will. Again I witnessed wanton alochol consumption and the effects of it last night walking through Glasgow. Some of these soaks could drive today, a terrifying thought...
 
ST4 said:
A few would, a lot would just drink less. Throw in very hard draconian punishments for drink driving, being drunk etc in the way class a drug offences are dealt with, you'd get compliance.

It's my view and it's something I would love to happen, but it never will. Again I witnessed wanton alochol consumption and the effects of it last night walking through Glasgow. Some of these soaks could drive today, a terrifying thought...
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Just so you know in 1990's thousands of people were employed by brewerys in burton (the brewing town) now we are down to a few hundreds. Alot of this is down to the price of alcohol. Its a bit like sayin pedos use cameras so lets raise the price of a camera to £100000 that'll stop it. Ive seen your opinions on many posts mate and alot of the time youve been right . Unfortunatly this time i feel ypur off the mark. Im not really a drinker but i pay my bills using the money the government allows the brewerys to make. The real issue here is that if i drove missed the chance of gettin caught is so slim because police have there fingers in there backsides and there are far to few of them. The world has gone so pc and the police are scared to police anything. if an asian person were caught drink driving the world may very well implode.

5years in prison if your over 150% the limit. 6months if your between 101-149% and if you kill someone while drink driving you should be disposed of.
 
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There's always a risk to jobs, but these brewers could make other non alcoholic drinks to survice. I find it genuinely saddened that our culture and economy are so intertwinned with alcohol consumption and production. I find it more worrying that people seek so much pleasure in getting drink and watching others getting drunk and out of it. It's a sad state of affairs.

I could live with this actually "5years in prison if your over 150% the limit. 6months if your between 101-149%"

To catch drink drivers, you need to use physical officers to set traps. Would the brewers be up in arms if the police set up drink drive checks outside every pub with a car park in the country and breathalised every driver coming out. If that happened you'd soon sort out drink driving for good, and send a lot of people down. Probably with that, is the pub owners/brewers would cry like babies that the police are infringing their livelihoods (as people would just have a half or maybe just 1 beer, or maybe desist from alcoholic beverages), theyd also whinge that the police don't have better things to do (they probably do actually) and its wholly unfair as drink driving is a problem that effects other drivers, never the perp,

I attended a GTG on a car forum, the two most vocal anti drink driving voices on that forum had 2 pints of beer with their lunch then drove maybe an hour later. Could they have been over the limit, possibly. I just found it funny those most against drink drive actually do it. Did they need beer with their lunch. No, coke, water, juice are all fine and taste great.
 
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