2nd hand Canon 20d or a new 450d?

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hollim

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Hi,

I have been offered a Canon 20d for around £200, but there are no lenses supplied with it. I know the owner, and it has been a backup camera and little used. Being new to DSLR cameras, my dilema is whether to go for this camera, and then buy a 18-55mm standard lens and a telephoto lens to go with it. I am guessing this would put the price for the camera and lenses up to about £500.

Or, should I go with a brand new 450d dual lens bundle (Image stabalised 18-55mm and telephoto lenses included) for about £650?

If I go with the older 20d, will the Image Stabalised Canon lenses work with it?

I know the 20d was a top camera in its day, I just wonder if the 450d has caught up and improved on the technology.

Thanks for your patience with this newbie question.

hollim
 
hollim said:
If I go with the older 20d, will the Image Stabalised Canon lenses work with it?
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Yes, they'll be fine....as will all Canon EF mount lenses


hollim said:
I know the 20d was a top camera in its day, I just wonder if the 450d has caught up and improved on the technology.
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It has probably improved on the technology but likely still hasn't got the build quality. My choice would be to go for the 20D and have a little more available for a decent lens.

Bob
 
The 20D was (and still is) a good solid camera, I should know I've still got one and use it on occasion, but it is relegated to now and then use (usually when I dont want to get the 40D damaged).

The 450D has some definite tech improvements. Massive rear display, the 20D is a postage stamp by comparison. The 450 has 12MP as opposed to the 20D's 8.2. However you'll not, I suspect, notice any difference in picture quality. The 20D may even have the edge (??dunno??). The 450D is about half the weight of a 20D (build quality I assume), but if weight is an issue...

As a complete noob to a DSLR other than the build quality I dont think you'll win anything over a 450D and with the latter you'll get lenses to use with it.
That said if you have a budget of £600 sobs then I'd be very tempted with the 20D and a decent lens or 2.

Have a look at

20D: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_eos20d.asp

450D : http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012403canoneos450d.asp
 
The 450D has sensor cleaning doesn't it? The 20D doesn't so that might be a factor to think about.
 
If you willing to spend £650 on a new 450D and lenses have a look and see what that will bag you in the second hand market, I bet it will be better than a 20D! You've shown you willing to consider second hand kit which in my opinion is the best way to go with DSLR stuff now you just need to pick your budget and go for it!
 
Thanks to all who have replied. I'm amazed that I've got so many good replies so quickly!

Can anyone recommend some good websites for second hand lenses and kit?

Also, do you think £200 for a 20d body only is a fair price?

Thanks again.
 
Have a look on the classsifieds on this forum. You'll need to get post count of 5 to be able to receive and send PM's - Which is important if you agree a deal with someone.

There's always some good stuff on there, I'm sure there's loads in your budget.
 
Thanks once again for the information and suggestions. I've decided to go for the 20D I've been offered, and I'll look on the second hand market for a couple of lenses for it.

Can anyone suggest a good general purpose lens (18-55mm?), and telephoto lens for a beginner on a budget? The telephoto lens would ideally be usable when hand held, so I don't need to take a tripod with me.
 
There are some 17-50mm "kit" lenses that are reasonably cheap and seem to start at £50-60 and some 17/18-50mm f2.8 lenses from Sigma and Tamron that are better but cost more. There's a 50-200mm Tamron that gets rave reviews and sells for something like £90 new, there's no image stabilisation on that lens though.
 
oldgit said:
The 450D has some definite tech improvements. Massive rear display, the 20D is a postage stamp by comparison.
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I agree. The 450D's display is hooooj. I only really use it though for reviewing images, or live view (obviously), which is where it excels. any other time it's off.

The 450 has 12MP as opposed to the 20D's 8.2.
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Not necessary a bad thing, think pixel density.
 
If you are on a tight budget for a lens, the Canon EF 28-135mm IS USM is a decent lens to start off with. Excellent quality for the price. I actually have mine for sale in the classifieds forum now since upgrading, but it was a joy to use when it was my main lens.
 
The 28-105 is cheaper and has markedly better IQ from tests I've seen, is smaller, lighter and yes it is a LOT cheaper.

Although it might not have IS? :thinking:
 
I bought a 2nd hand 20D a couple of months ago for £200, body only, to go with my 400D. Fortunately had the lenses to use, just wanted a 2nd body. Now use it as my main body with the 400D back up. There's something about the feel of it that makes it so much better to me. Had to use the 400D at weekend and it felt like a kids toy after using the 20D for 4 hours pretty much non-stop......reminder to self, buy a 2nd battery!
 
lauy said:
If you are on a tight budget for a lens, the Canon EF 28-135mm IS USM is a decent lens to start off with. Excellent quality for the price. I actually have mine for sale in the classifieds forum now since upgrading, but it was a joy to use when it was my main lens.
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Thanks for everyone's advice. lauy - couldn't see your lens on the classified section, unless I'm checking in the wrong place.
 
Thanks again. I am guessing that if you shoot with a fast enough shutter and in good light it may be possible to use telephoto without Image Stabalisation?

One final question (might be a bit off topic) but why does Canon build Image Stabalisation into each lens, and not into the camera body? I am sure there must be a good reason.
 
hollim said:
Thanks again. I am guessing that if you shoot with a fast enough shutter and in good light it may be possible to use telephoto without Image Stabalisation?
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Yes, I use a 135 without any IS (it's too old for that!) and as long as you have the shutter speed right(anything over 135 generally) it's fine.

One final question (might be a bit off topic) but why does Canon build Image Stabalisation into each lens, and not into the camera body? I am sure there must be a good reason.
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Probably so they can sell IS models for more money! it also helps to keep the viewfinder steady as the image is being stabilised optically rather than by the sensor. Even with my 135 which is a medium/short telephoto I find if I'm shivering or having a bad shaky hand day, that the viewfinder can shake quite a bit.
 
Looks like trencheel already beat me to it!

General consensus is that the longer the focal range you shoot at, the more difficult it is to get a sharp image, and IS helps a lot if handheld.

On a seperate note, it looks like someone has made an offer on my 28-135mm which I've accepted but there is the 17-35mm still ;)
 
Surprised no one has mentioned it but if you have £60 left, buy a nifty fifty 50mm f1.8

Great for portraits
 
hollim said:
Thanks once again for the information and suggestions. I've decided to go for the 20D I've been offered, and I'll look on the second hand market for a couple of lenses for it.

Can anyone suggest a good general purpose lens (18-55mm?), and telephoto lens for a beginner on a budget? The telephoto lens would ideally be usable when hand held, so I don't need to take a tripod with me.
Click to expand...

Have a look at the surprise MTF Resolution (sharpness) results and conclusion for the "EFS 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS" HERE. (NB. not the "EFS 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 II" ;))

Astounding for what is essentially a kit lens. They seem to go for around £60-£70 on the second-hand market. I bought one a couple of days ago for my first DSLR body which I bought through the For Sale section of the forum a few days ago, fingers crossed the lens will be here tomorrow (that reminds me, mustn't forget to put the camera battery on charge tonight :bonk:).
 
Thanks for all the great advice. I've got plenty to look at and think about now. I've heard some good things about the 50mm 1.8 lens from the guy that's selling me the camera. He reckons you can't go wrong for £60, even if it's a bit plasticy. Think I'll maybe go for a kit lens and a one of those, and then save up for a midrange telephoto (and keep my eye out for a bargains second hand) :):thumbs:
 
The 50mm 1.8 mk2 is a fantastic lens for such a cheap price, I bought one pretty much as soon as I could. For £60-70, you get a really good portrait lens, colours look really vibrant on it and wide aperture creates nice bokeh, even if it's not the smoothest looking compared to the more pricey models. Not so good to use as a general purpose lens, but I only took it out for portraits and worth every penny.
 
One other thing - what is the difference with the EF and EF-S lenses? Are they different mounts? If so, which can the 20D take, or can I use both types on the 20D? :thinking:
 
On crop sensor bodies, including 20D, you can use both EF and EF-S mount lenses. On the full frame bodies, (5D and 1D) you can only use EF mount lenses.
 
20D can take both.

EF lenses are 'full frame' lenses for the FF digital cameras or 35mm film. EF-S lenses fit on crop sensor cameras only - no film - and are designed specifically for digital. The S in EF-S stands for short back focus indicating it's a lens tailored for the smaller sensor. My advice is not to use an EF-S lens on a full frame camera, as the mirror slap may strike the rear element. The mount itself is the same (EOS mount) but the rear element is in a slightly different place, and you will see vignetting with an EF-S lens on a full frame body.

So to summarise:

EF lenses are compatible with: All EOS mount cameras from the 1D to the 1000D, film or digital.
EF-S lenses are compatible with ONLY crop sensor digitals, that is all them except the EOS 1 and 5D.
 
you got 600ish?

200 gone on body

I'd be tempted to see if I could find a second hand tamron 17-50 f2.8 (amazingly sharp f2.8 and a real bargain) for £200 S/H

then drop the remaining 200 on an ef-s 55-200 IS and an ef 50/1.8

gives you a really good walkabout/landscape lens, a fast portrait prime and a cheap and cheerful telephoto

in 6 months / a year you'll be know more about what inspires you to shoot and what you enjoy and have some experience to tailor your kit to what you need
 
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