20D or 40D (or others)

[big soft moose]

Hi Folks

I'm currently using a 20D as my main camera and a 300D as back up - however the 300D is reaching the end of its natural life and will probably go to silicon heaven soon (its done quite well with well over 50,000 shots and 8 years of service) so I need to replace it.

I have a maximum of about £400 and will be buying second hand, probably from mifsuds (who are just down the road) as i'm going down there shortly to get the sensor on the 20D cleaned

so the question is what benefit do I get from going with a 40D or a 30D and using that as the main camera and demoting my 20D to back up rather than just getting a second 20D ? I know the spec differences I'm wondrring about the practical real life in the feild difference.

(incidentally the reason i'm not considering 400D, 450D, and 550D is that I have quite big hands and I struggled when i used a mates 350D)

Course I could just lock mr sensible in the shed and come back with a 1dmk2 and an over draft - but the missus might kill me if i go that far over budget

 

[SimonUK]

There are quite a few Cheapish 1d's in the Trade section right now. the 40d is regarded as one of the best Canon DSLR, but the 20d is also very good. If you happy with the way your 20d go's now. then might aswell just get another.

 

[aerobandit]

benefit of upgrading from 20D to 40D? for me: spot metering(i find it very useful), better LCD, LV sometimes useful, improved AF in servo mode and more megapixels.

 

[big soft moose]

There are quite a few Cheapish 1d's in the Trade section right now. the 40d is regarded as one of the best Canon DSLR, but the 20d is also very good. If you happy with the way your 20d go's now. then might aswell just get another.

As a new member I cant get in the trade section till next month

I think what draw's me to the 40D (and the 1D when the wife isnt looking) is the higher fps - I do a lot of faster action wildlife, like flying birds etc, and also a fair bit of events photography for work

i supose the question is is 6.5fps on the 40D that noticeable a difference from 5fps on the 20D , and also whats the buffering speed like ?

 

[rssmrry]

Hi Folks

I'm currently using a 20D as my main camera and a 300D as back up - however the 300D is reaching the end of its natural life and will probably go to silicon heaven soon (its done quite well with well over 50,000 shots and 8 years of service) so I need to replace it.

I have a maximum of about £400 and will be buying second hand, probably from mifsuds (who are just down the road) as i'm going down there shortly to get the sensor on the 20D cleaned

so the question is what benefit do I get from going with a 40D or a 30D and using that as the main camera and demoting my 20D to back up rather than just getting a second 20D ? I know the spec differences I'm wondrring about the practical real life in the feild difference.

(incidentally the reason i'm not considering 400D, 450D, and 550D is that I have quite big hands and I struggled when i used a mates 350D)

Course I could just lock mr sensible in the shed and come back with a 1dmk2 and an over draft - but the missus might kill me if i go that far over budget

Why not get the 1D Mk II and sell the 300D (dunno how much they go for). My 1DII cost £450 which isn't hugely over your budget. Do you desperately need a second body?

 

[big soft moose]

Why not get the 1D Mk II and sell the 300D (dunno how much they go for). My 1DII cost £450 which isn't hugely over your budget. Do you desperately need a second body?

I doubt i'd get much at all for my 300D as its quite hard used - mint models are selling for maybe £200 but mine sure as heck isnt mint (unless its polo mint - mint with a hole )

If i could get a 1dmk2 for £450 i'd jump at it - but it does need to be a dealer sale (this is going on the drastic plastic) and the cheapest ive seen is £699.

and I don't desperately desperately need a second body most of the time - but when covering events (and moreso weddings - not that i do many anymore) its useful to have 2 bodies with different lenses to save having to faff swaping all the time.

Also if i'm going to brixham next week anyway its a good oportunity to vist the mifsud store of temptation

 

[dinners]

I currently have a 40D and 1D Mark 2

Happy with them both. They're on a par with each other for ISO noise but the 1D Mark 2 is miles ahead when it comes to AF plus I can take it out in all weathers. Navigating around a 1D Mark 2 can be a fiddle if your not used to it and the screen is smaller than the 40D.

Both lovely cameras and should be just about OK with your budget.

 

[rssmrry]

I doubt i'd get much at all for my 300D as its quite hard used - mint models are selling for maybe £200 but mine sure as heck isnt mint (unless its polo mint - mint with a hole )

If i could get a 1dmk2 for £450 i'd jump at it - but it does need to be a dealer sale (this is going on the drastic plastic) and the cheapest ive seen is £699.

and I don't desperately desperately need a second body most of the time - but when covering events (and moreso weddings - not that i do many anymore) its useful to have 2 bodies with different lenses to save having to faff swaping all the time.

Also if i'm going to brixham next week anyway its a good oportunity to vist the mifsud store of temptation

I got mine from the forums, I don't have any credit cards so I don't know if this is possible, but could you not get the cash from the hole in the wall and get shopping

I completely appreciate that you need a back up body for what you're doing. The 20D will pair up very nicely with the 1DII in my opinion.

One thing I would mention is if you're getting the 1DII I wouldn't go on a shoot without reading the manual before hand!

Also, make sure you get the battery charger included as buying this separately is expensive as the Canon one is the only one with the recycle function (which keeps the batteries in tip top shape) and costs over £200 new and go for over £100 used! Beware! Though you can get cheaper third party chargers without the recycle function.

I should mention I looked into the used prices of 300D's and some recent sales suggest that body only (boxed w/accessories) can get more than £100, but don't forget to take off ebay's fees and what not. If you're not gonna use it, why not sell it to increase your budget?

 

[big soft moose]

I got mine from the forums, I don't have any credit cards so I don't know if this is possible, but could you not get the cash from the hole in the wall and get shopping

I completely appreciate that you need a back up body for what you're doing. The 20D will pair up very nicely with the 1DII in my opinion.

One thing I would mention is if you're getting the 1DII I wouldn't go on a shoot without reading the manual before hand!

Also, make sure you get the battery charger included as buying this separately is expensive as the Canon one is the only one with the recycle function (which keeps the batteries in tip top shape) and costs over £200 new and go for over £100 used! Beware! Though you can get cheaper third party chargers without the recycle function.

I hadnt thought about batteries - does the 40D take the same batts as the 20D ? - it would be handy to have both bodies take the same, especially as i have a horde of BP511s ( I know the 1D series are different)

 

[rssmrry]

I hadnt thought about batteries - does the 40D take the same batts as the 20D ? - it would be handy to have both bodies take the same, especially as i have a horde of BP511s ( I know the 1D series are different)

Yeah the 40D takes BP511s. The 1D's batteries are huge, a consideration if you have limited storage.

 

[big soft moose]

Yeah the 40D takes BP511s. The 1D's batteries are huge,

and I would guess expensive - can you get generic batteries for them like you can with a 511 (only two of my 511s are canon, 3 others are hahnel, and the remaining 3 are jessops)

and storage is a thread to itself - I'm currently building a dedicated storage cabinet for all my gear , and it was a thread on a woodworkforum on that which led me here..

 

[RobertP]

I know that woodwork forum

My upgrade path from the 20D was the 5D. Apart from being full frame and more pixels + spot metering the biggest difference I noticed was the picture quality. 20D shots are good but 5D ones are better. Difficult to define but shooting RAW there is always some editing involved - 5D pictures needed so much less tweaking.

Anyway bit of a red herring if you need faster AF and faster fps on continuous as the 5D is similar to the 20D on AF and only 3fps

 

[big soft moose]

I know that woodwork forum

My upgrade path from the 20D was the 5D. Apart from being full frame and more pixels + spot metering the biggest difference I noticed was the picture quality. 20D shots are good but 5D ones are better. Difficult to define but shooting RAW there is always some editing involved - 5D pictures needed so much less tweaking.

Anyway bit of a red herring if you need faster AF and faster fps on continuous as the 5D is similar to the 20D on AF and only 3fps

lol - yeah I'd love a 5D for landscapes (or better still a 5Dmk2) but I really cant afford that , and for most of what I do fast is going to be better - a lot of my landscapes are shot on my Mamiya 645 and scanned anyway)

(My absloute dream kit would be a 6x6MF Mamiya with a leaf aptus digital back for landscapes and a 1Dmk4 for everything else. But as swimbo wont agree to a second mortgage..... )

to be honest my 20D is perfectly adequate for what i want to do - its just the 300D thats on the way out - so I may well end up with another 20D and save a couple of hundred notes to spend on lenses.

Throwing another spanner amongs the pigeons , has anybody tried a 400 or 450D with a battery grip ? ( I originally ruled them out because my hands are too big to grip them propperly but if a battery grip solves that problem )

 

[Lindsay D]

I'm fortunate enough to have all the kit I could ever want, but I still find myself reaching for my 40D a lot of the time. The feel of it, and the IQ, is exceptional. I'll never part with it. I'm sure you'd be more than happy with one.

 

[imagine]

You can get a brand new 550d from amazon for £460 after cash back. Has the same sensor as the 7d so good high iso and 18mp. Still only around 3 fps though.

 

[odd jim]

lol - yeah I'd love a 5D for landscapes (or better still a 5Dmk2) but I really cant afford that , and for most of what I do fast is going to be better - a lot of my landscapes are shot on my Mamiya 645 and scanned anyway)

(My absloute dream kit would be a 6x6MF Mamiya with a leaf aptus digital back for landscapes and a 1Dmk4 for everything else. But as swimbo wont agree to a second mortgage..... )

to be honest my 20D is perfectly adequate for what i want to do - its just the 300D thats on the way out - so I may well end up with another 20D and save a couple of hundred notes to spend on lenses.

Throwing another spanner amongs the pigeons , has anybody tried a 400 or 450D with a battery grip ? ( I originally ruled them out because my hands are too big to grip them propperly but if a battery grip solves that problem )

I used to use a 400d with battery grip and it handled like a dream, a totally different feel with the grip attached. Loved that setup!

 

[big soft moose]

I used to use a 400d with battery grip and it handled like a dream, a totally different feel with the grip attached. Loved that setup!

hmm decisions decisions - am i right in thinking that the 350/400/450 etc take a different battery to the 10/20/30/40 and are SD not CF cards

I'd like to standardise so i dont have to carry twice as many and i already have about 250 quids worth of BP511 and £100 notes worth of CF cards

 

[bigsmiff]

Had both the 20D and the 40D both very nice cameras, the 40D is really just a newer slicker version of the 20D and with the batteries and cards you already have and the fact that you will pick up the 40D and be able to use it comfortably straight away (very similar to the 20D) I would think that would be a good choice for you IMHO

 

[Jackwow]

There are quite a few Cheapish 1d's in the Trade section right now. the 40d is regarded as one of the best Canon DSLR, but the 20d is also very good. If you happy with the way your 20d go's now. then might aswell just get another.

Really, another 20D?! Sorry but I can't believe that is good advice! :shrug:

There are so much better bodies available that one surely has to move on?

 

[odd jim]

hmm decisions decisions - am i right in thinking that the 350/400/450 etc take a different battery to the 10/20/30/40 and are SD not CF cards

I'd like to standardise so i dont have to carry twice as many and i already have about 250 quids worth of BP511 and £100 notes worth of CF cards

The 400d took cf cards though I think from the 450d they switched the sd.

 

[big soft moose]

Really, another 20D?! Sorry but I can't believe that is good advice! :shrug:

There are so much better bodies available that one surely has to move on?

If I could afford to "move on" you'd be right (Ideally to a 1Dmk4) - but i'm leaning towards a spare 20D on cost grounds (circa 200 quid rather than circa 400) - and like i said higher up i'm fairly happy with my 20D , its my 300D back up that i'm replacing.

having two bodies the same does make a lot of sense - but then like big smiff said the 40D is a slicker version of the 20 so then again...

 

[SimonUK]

Really, another 20D?! Sorry but I can't believe that is good advice! :shrug:

There are so much better bodies available that one surely has to move on?

Why? People still shoot film. Surely in your logic they should move on?

If he is happy with the 20d IQ, then whats wrong with getting a second?

 

[squishy]

I agree, if the OP will make use of the additions of the 40D (faster fps, better screen, live view other newer technologies) or 1DII (superb build and handling, weather sealing, AF, speed) then it's worth it, but if the 20D does everything the OP needs then why not save some cash and get another.

I'm not sure about the 30D. I've heard it's really very similar to the 20D basically with a firmware upgrade, but since it's a newer body, the used ones may have less actuations than most used 20D's?

 

[big soft moose]

If he is happy with the 20d IQ, then whats wrong with getting a second?

Spot on - I still shoot film (both through the mamiya 645 and v. occasionally through the Eos 30E) too , at the end of the day i'm not interested in moving on for the sake of it - only if i need to to acheive what i want to do (and i'm not particularly interested in megapixels for the sake of them either - 8MP is enough for me)

I'm only looking at changing the 300D because its dying, ive got dead pixels in the lcd, the histogram function doesnt work, one of the buttons on the back doesnt work unless you press it hard etc

So Ive basically narrowed the choices down to

20D, 40D, or 400D (and grip)

and i'm leaning towards either the 20 or the 40 - depending on part whats in stock and what deals I can do.

(WRT the 30D that was just coming out when I bought my 20D, so although i'm not adverse to getting one i wouldnt bet on their having fewer activations)

 

[Jackwow]

Why? People still shoot film. Surely in your logic they should move on?

I never said that. Film and digital are very different.

If he is happy with the 20d IQ, then whats wrong with getting a second?

You're correct, if he's happy with an archaic camera then he should stick with one. Let's all sell our cameras and buy 10D's? However I somehow doubt there would be many takers for that proposition.

We could also sell our homes and live in caves?

 

[big soft moose]

You're correct, if he's happy with an archaic camera then he should stick with one. Let's all sell our cameras and buy 10D's? However I somehow doubt there would be many takers for that proposition.

We could also sell our homes and live in caves?

I'd hardly call 8MP and 5fps archaic - it takes good photos (or rather I use it to take good photos) - a number of which have wound up in magazines (sometime on the front cover) and in the press - I really doubt that having the latest gear would improve on that situation or make me a better photographer - IMO its the photos that matter what we use to get them is a secondary consideration

But At the end of the day If you are happy with your 7D then thats great - I dont doubt I'd be happy with one too if I could afford it - but unless you know where I can get one for 400 notes, I can't

I can however just about afford a s/h 40D or 400D or easily afford a 20D - hence this thread - to which a lot of people have contributed helpfully. Not everyone can afford to have the best or latest of everything and the thread title wasnt "what camera should I get money no object" (If it was I'd probably be looking at "moving on" to a 1Dmk4 a 1DS mk3 and a digital medium format system)

 

[Jackwow]

I can however just about afford a s/h 40D or 400D or easily afford a 20D - hence this thread - to which a lot of people have contributed helpfully. Not everyone can afford to have the best or latest of everything and the thread title wasnt "what camera should I get money no object" (If it was I'd probably be looking at "moving on" to a 1Dmk4 a 1DS mk3 and a digital medium format system)

I apologise (again tonight :bonk, I really didn't read your OP properly.

I still however believe that you should move on from the 20D and at least get a 40D (I went from 40D to 7D) as it's a great camera and there are so many improvements since the 20D.

 

[cw318is]

Really, another 20D?! Sorry but I can't believe that is good advice! :shrug:

There are so much better bodies available that one surely has to move on?

Sorry but that is quite a misguided and condescending opinion. Look at the budget, £400. Better body then a 20D or 30D would be a 7D, and then you're looking at £1,000. 30D is the ultimate 20D evolution, same camera but with 1/3 stop increments, spot metering and bigger rear screen. The OP knows how to use a 20D well, why change?

There are still several hundred pro photographers that use 20D's and second bodies, and I would put money on picking up any leading magazines (maybe with the exception of Nikon Owners Monthly) and it would have images shot with 20D's on there.

To the OP - cock a snook at MPB Photographic. Great honest company and they take plastic and warranty everything. If its not on the website give Matt a ring and let him know what you want and he'll find one for you

 

[woof woof]

You're correct, if he's happy with an archaic camera...

Oh come on... it's only a few years old and is hardly "archaic" and I'm not just saying that because I own one

If you don't print very very large (and not many of us do) and don't crop waaaaayyy too much 8mp is quite enough and IQ is (IMVHO) largely down to lens, operator competence (settings etc...) and processing.

I've seen enough shots on the net taken with 7D's that shout all the gear and no idea to know that new gear does not necessarily equal improved output.

 

[rpcrowe]

benefit of upgrading from 20D to 40D? for me: spot metering(i find it very useful), better LCD, LV sometimes useful, improved AF in servo mode and more megapixels.

+ self cleaning sensor, 3 User defined modes (which I use all the time but seldom read about), better menu system

Add a shutter life expectancy of 100K for the 40D against 50K for the 20D. That combined with the expectation that a used 20D, being an older model, might have more shutter actuations than a 40D; the 40D might be expected to have a considerably greater life expectancy.

 

[LCPete]

You can get a brand new 550d from amazon for £460 after cash back. Has the same sensor as the 7d so good high iso and 18mp. Still only around 3 fps though.

That is what I would do I was looking for a second body to go with my 40D but 40D's at the time were going for £400 secondhand so I went for the 550D although I love my 40D I do now use the 550D more

 

[Craikeybaby]

I went 20D to 1D for motorsports, and have still got the 20D as a back up, its a good camera and took my favourite motorsport picture on it while the 1D was being serviced, if it is good enough for what you want go for it and save some cash!

 

[neil_g]

I went 20D to 1D for motorsports, and have still got the 20D as a back up, its a good camera and took my favourite motorsport picture on it while the 1D was being serviced, if it is good enough for what you want go for it and save some cash!

Same here I run a gripped 20D as a backup to my 1Dmk3.

While its not quite in the same league as the 1D the 20D is perfectly capable for up to fast action etc. The only place it falls down is low light capability, its a bit noise over 800 on ISO.

 

[big soft moose]

Just to update on this i'm currently bidding on a 1D on ebay - If I dont get it I'll probably buy a 40D s/h though I might be tempted to get a new 550D instead - because although its fps is slower i'd still have my 20D for the fast situations (after all its the 300D I'm replacing not the 20D)

I might get a s/h 20D as well - which would give me 2 cameras in my shooting kit and a spare - having both my DSLRs out of action (the 20D has a filthy sensor at present) has been extremly frustrating recently - I had to shoot my POTY entry this month with my fuji f10

 

[rssmrry]

There are a couple of 1DIIs on the classified section, one has just had a new shutter and is £450 ono, might be worth considering that.

 

[big soft moose]

There are a couple of 1DIIs on the classified section, one has just had a new shutter and is £450 ono, might be worth considering that.

nice but i've got another 26 days til i can view the classifieds

 

[squishy]

+ self cleaning sensor, 3 User defined modes (which I use all the time but seldom read about), better menu system

Very good point, the custom modes aren't often mentioned, but they are one of my favourite features on the 40D.

 

[big soft moose]

updating again - dont tell swimbo but after days of agonising and bidding on this camera or that camera on ebay ( I just missed out on a 5D classic at one point - sob) I've finally done the deed with MPB , and out of the left field the final winner of the "be BSMs next backup camera was..... a 450D

given my intial desire for a 20D/30D/40D this came as a bit of a suprise - but, largely down to the japanese situation theres been a bit of a derth of quality canon kit being traded in - and I eventually decided to stop faffing and just jump on one - and I got an okay deal ( I hope) on a near mint 450D and grip, and 4 batteries. (to replace my very nearly dead 300D)

when the canon supply problem is finally resolved I will probably hack in my 20D and get either a 7D or a 60D new (or possibly a low miler 50D s/h)

I decided against going to 5D/1D/1DS because a lot of my lenses are EFs and I cant afford to replace half my glass as well as my camera at this stage.