2013 Slimming Thread

[PMN]

Mmm... Popcorn's going down well!

 

[London Headshots]

Update:

Thought I'd post some science stats. BEWARE: SCIENCE AHEAD:

As you can see, muscle mass increases over a very short amount of time. You can see I go from "phil" to "huge" in the blink of an eye.

This proves that my diet is brilliant. I use biomechanical anabolic "thingies", as I like to call them, and that's all you need to know. Sorry for all the science, it gets a bit complex sometimes!

 

[Phil Young]

Update:

Thought I'd post some science stats. BEWARE: SCIENCE AHEAD:

As you can see, muscle mass increases over a very short amount of time. You can see I go from "phil" to "huge" in the blink of an eye.

This proves that my diet is brilliant. I use biomechanical anabolic "thingies", as I like to call them, and that's all you need to know. Sorry for all the science, it gets a bit complex sometimes!

Seriously, what's wrong with you?? You haven't even seen what I've typed have you, you've just made your own version of what I've said...??

The concentration is on getting smaller, I don't even expect any more gains now.

All you've done so far is show that you are just like 99% of body builders out there - they get a good result and think that there is no way in the world anything could be better.

In your case you're trying to discredit anything I do or say even though (or maybe because) it could show you a different and even better way of achieving a big result in a short period of time.

Seriously, get a life.

 

[London Headshots]

Update:

Just eaten a SCSI drive, bit of a cheat meal I know, but NOW EMITTING GAMMA WAVE RADIATION FROM MY PECS.

Does anyone here want me tell them how wrong they are about their current diet?

Just look at my progress in this thread and see for yourself. The science is right there.

 

[Phil Young]

Update:

Just eaten a SCSI drive, bit of a cheat meal I know, but NOW EMITTING GAMMA WAVE RADIATION FROM MY PECS.

Does anyone here want me tell them how wrong they are about their current diet?

Just look at my progress in this thread and see for yourself. The science is right there.

Ok... ignore list time I think...

I don't even want to prove anything to you anymore... clearly you're just an ass.

 

[London Headshots]

UPDATE:

This thread is nothing without images.

Before:

After:

There you have it. The proof of my theory is right there. Stop listening to all the other guys with their "conventional" wisdom. The science is right here, there, and just sort of orbiting the periphery of my general greatness.

 

[Damian Brown]

Lol you're getting so irritated. You can badmouth my knowledge all you like but like you said... results speak more than words so let's converse again in July??

I've told you I'm qualified. But you won't accept it... that's fine, I don't need to prove anything to someone that clearly doesn't even want to be open to the possibility of improving upon ones knowledge.

Dude man, you're missing a treat if you're not displaying your qualifications online. People need to see that in your field. Nobody wants a trainer who's not qualified. Who wants some amateur messing with their body? Get that qualification up in lights!

 

[Phil Young]

Dude man, you're missing a treat if you're not displaying your qualifications online. People need to see that in your field. Nobody wants a trainer who's not qualified. Who wants some amateur messing with their body? Get that qualification up in lights!

When I work on my website for when I get back into full time PT it may be something I address.

For now:

I have a level 3 personal trainer qualification.

Level 5 biomechanics coach

Level 3 diet and nutrition advisor

Applied exercise and sports nutritionist

Like I said, I am qualified and I'm not talking nonsense. Just because it's knew to some folk, doesn't mean it's wrong.

2 years ago I was telling people HIIT is the way forward and that protein is key. Now I know different and I'm Happy about that because it's made results for me faster and better and my clients and myself have a more balanced life and can programme exercise based on health related goals - stuff they will see a huge benefit in.

 

[kelack]

Will you both take a step back and stop with your arguing please. It's getting very tiresome and I'm not talking about an overload of sugar or carbs or anything. Keep on and you'll both find you have a little extra time to spend with your training

 

[Phil Young]

Will you both take a step back and stop with your arguing please. It's getting very tiresome and I'm not talking about an overload of sugar or carbs or anything. Keep on and you'll both find you have a little extra time to spend with your training

He's on my ignore list now so I'm sorted!

 

[kelack]

And you'll find that mentioning that is against the etiquette as well as per Marcel's post. Now I'm going to put the 4lbs I've lost this week back on by turning to cider

 

[POAH]

Carbohydrates do not retain muscle. They SPARE protein. That means in the presence of stored carbohydrates in the form of glycogen, the body will use those reserves if a faster energy source (protein) is not required.


Do you have a biochemistry degree?

that would be half wrong. Carbs inhibit fatty acid metabolism though insulin release affecting malonyl CoA levels (thus inhibiting transport of FA into the mitochondria), inhibiting the release of glucagon. Protein is only used as an energy source under starvation conditions. Without an intake of sugar the body will use its stored glycogen before using fat (triglycerides) hence why the atkins diet works.

 

[London Headshots]

that would be half wrong. Carbs inhibit fatty acid metabolism though insulin release affecting malonyl CoA levels (thus inhibiting transport of FA into the mitochondria), inhibiting the release of glucagon. Protein is only used as an energy source under starvation conditions. Without an intake of sugar the body will use its stored glycogen before using fat (triglycerides) hence why the atkins diet works.

I know your background is medicine, so please don't think I'm telling you you're wrong, because I'm absolutely not, but I think you've just worded what I said better, surely?

Protein is also used when energy is required faster than can be oxidised from fat. Certain aerobic outputs can induce muscle catabolism.

Am I wrong? I'm not challenging you, I'm genuinely asking.

 

[Phil Young]

that would be half wrong. Carbs inhibit fatty acid metabolism though insulin release affecting malonyl CoA levels (thus inhibiting transport of FA into the mitochondria), inhibiting the release of glucagon. Protein is only used as an energy source under starvation conditions. Without an intake of sugar the body will use its stored glycogen before using fat (triglycerides) hence why the atkins diet works.

Aha! Somebody that knows about about it!
This insulin part will only come into play when carbohydrates are broken down in such large amounts that insulin secretion is in it's abundance.

Depending on the variables, something like atkins will no deliver the body fat percentage result due to a LBW going down so much.

Again, there are variables but generally a diet with high fat high protein will initially see around a 1kg weight loss as soon as they start due to water stored with glycogen depletion and then it's anybody's guess about how much fat vs muscle they will lose since protein through the diet is more difficult to transport as energy due to it being slower to digest and no direct storage site.

Also then there are all the negative health risks and life negativities that come from such a plan so for me, it doesn't work at all as it's not really sustainable as a change.

 

[POAH]

my background is not medicine :annoyed:

proteins are not fats hence why you were wrong

glucose is used as the fastest source of energy followed by fat (gives the most return) then protein.

I know your background is medicine, so please don't think I'm telling you you're wrong, because I'm absolutely not, but I think you've just worded what I said better, surely?

Protein is also used when energy is required faster than can be oxidised from fat. Certain aerobic outputs can induce muscle catabolism.

Am I wrong? I'm not challenging you, I'm genuinely asking.

 

[Phil Young]

Glycolysis (the breakdown of glycogen) is then used with the absence of oxygen (fat) to fuel activity.

When glycogen is depleted, the body turns to itself in a bid to release amino acids for energy.

In extreme circumstances, this is why somebody with anorexia would die, the brain is being fueled by the heart which gets too small and causes cardiac arrest.

Obviously we aren't all at that stage but just to give a little hint into it not being the best way...

 

[London Headshots]

my background is not medicine :annoyed:

proteins are not fats hence why you were wrong

glucose is used as the fastest source of energy followed by fat (gives the most return) then protein.

Cheers POAH, I know protein isn't a fat. I know you knew I knew that. I'm in a difficult position here, because I know that no matter what, you'll absolutely never admit I'm right, half right, or even on the right track unless you're absolutely forced to. Makes any response I make to you pretty pointless. Hence the reason I was "half wrong" and not "half right".

I know that you could go through this thread and tear everything Phil said to pieces, but you won't, because it would benefit me

What you're saying doesn't really make sense. If the body only burns protein in the absence of fat and suger, then dieting and maintaining muscle mass would be a simple case of stopping eating. We know it isn't, so either neither of us are wrong, or we're both wrong.

Insulin release also inhibits protein turnover. And of course it would inhibit fat oxidation in the presence of insulin. The insulin is busy storing the carbs as glycogen and fat and transporting them round the body.

You kind of just told me I'm wrong by telling me I'm right. I don't see the point in that.

 

[POAH]

:nono::nono::nono::nono:

glycolysis is the metabolic pathway involving the conversion of glucose to pyruvate

Glycogenolysis is the breakdown of glycogen


also don't understand this "absence of oxygen (fat) to fuel activity"

in the absence of oxygen, pyruvate is fermented to lactic acid

when free glucose is used up, glycogen is broken down then fat is used. amino acids are only used a last resort

Glycolysis (the breakdown of glycogen) is then used with the absence of oxygen (fat) to fuel activity.

When glycogen is depleted, the body turns to itself in a bid to release amino acids for energy.

In extreme circumstances, this is why somebody with anorexia would die, the brain is being fueled by the heart which gets too small and causes cardiac arrest.

Obviously we aren't all at that stage but just to give a little hint into it not being the best way...

 

[POAH]

if you stop eating the body will use its reserves to fuel the body, however the body also needs amino acids to build proteins. Therefore less essential proteins will be broken down to be used as building blocks of the more important proteins. Proteins only have a limited half-life anyway so get metabolised by the cell at the end of their life but are not used for energy metabolism because there are other sources.

now my energy metabolism is a bit rusty (been 10 years since I had a peer reviewed paper published on the subject) but I'm pretty sure insulin is a hormone that binds to receptors on the cell surface to make its effects known and does not transporting sugars and fats in the blood. I agree that insulin does reduce protein turn over in muscle and promotes uptake of amino acids into cells but that is not for energy metabolism (it is also a bit of a controversial area of study)



in order to stay healthy and loose weight you need to eat a diet which has all the nutrients you require but intake less calories than you burn off in a day which is pretty obvious.

What you're saying doesn't really make sense. If the body only burns protein in the absence of fat and suger, then dieting and maintaining muscle mass would be a simple case of stopping eating. We know it isn't, so either neither of us are wrong, or we're both wrong.

Insulin release also inhibits protein turnover. And of course it would inhibit fat oxidation in the presence of insulin. The insulin is busy storing the carbs as glycogen and fat and transporting them round the body.

You kind of just told me I'm wrong by telling me I'm right. I don't see the point in that.

 

[Phil Young]

:nono::nono::nono::nono:

glycolysis is the metabolic pathway involving the conversion of glucose to pyruvate

Glycogenolysis is the breakdown of glycogen

also don't understand this "absence of oxygen (fat) to fuel activity"

in the absence of oxygen, pyruvate is fermented to lactic acid

when free glucose is used up, glycogen is broken down then fat is used. amino acids are only used a last resort

You're right, I stand corrected! Got my olysys's muddled up

 

[Phil Young]

if you stop eating the body will use its reserves to fuel the body, however the body also needs amino acids to build proteins. Therefore less essential proteins will be broken down to be used as building blocks of the more important proteins. Proteins only have a limited half-life anyway so get metabolised by the cell at the end of their life but are not used for energy metabolism because there are other sources.

now my energy metabolism is a bit rusty (been 10 years since I had a peer reviewed paper published on the subject) but I'm pretty sure insulin is a hormone that binds to receptors on the cell surface to make its effects known and does not transporting sugars and fats in the blood. I agree that insulin does reduce protein turn over in muscle and promotes uptake of amino acids into cells but that is not for energy metabolism (it is also a bit of a controversial area of study)

in order to stay healthy and loose weight you need to eat a diet which has all the nutrients you require but intake less calories than you burn off in a day which is pretty obvious.

Also important to state that fat as a fuel cannot complete oxidation without glucose being present already, hence a proportion of amino acids (muscle or diet) will always be used when glycogen is depleted. Effectively fueling fat loss by sacrificing muscle (potentially).

 

[POAH]

funny I know all this **** yet I'm not a healthy person

 

[Phil Young]

funny I know all this **** yet I'm not a healthy person

Lol ...as I openly stated earlier in the debate: some of us just enjoy pizza baha.

 

[Hacker]

I have to admit I am completely lost with all the scientific terms being mentioned here.

I have one question which hopefully one of you can answer in simple, layman's terms :

I am on an intensive exercise programme which is mainly weight based but also with some running. I am also on a high protein, low carb diet. is this best for muscle building and shedding fat?

 

[Phil Young]

I have to admit I am completely lost with all the scientific terms being mentioned here.

I have one question which hopefully one of you can answer in simple, layman's terms :

I am on an intensive exercise programme which is mainly weight based but also with some running. I am also on a high protein, low carb diet. is this best for muscle building and shedding fat?

You can't do both at the same time. You must sort your priority First. If you have a higher bf percentage you may want to get that down to a more manageable figure before building muscle.

People that are under the misconception that movement is the majority of calories expended will tell you to go low carb but this for me is a big mistake for all the reasons above. There's just no point and most of your energy is used by your organs anyway so you don't need to worry to much about movement.

Anyway, before I go off on one...

Building muscle requires a high protein content with a positive calorie balance, putting in more than you use.

Why don't we start with your priority??

Muscle growth or fat reduction???

 

[POAH]

you are probably ****ing and ******** most on the protein away and probably inducing a bit of constipation lol

 

[Uncle buck]

Just a quick update reached the 3 stone mark on Friday

 

[Phil Young]

Just a quick update reached the 3 stone mark on Friday

Well done mate. Did you take any before photos? That will show quite a difference.

 

[Uncle buck]

Well done mate. Did you take any before photos? That will show quite a difference.

I took one today and found one taken on holiday when i was at my biggest and yes you can really see the difference

 

[Phil Young]

I took one today and found one taken on holiday when i was at my biggest and yes you can really see the difference

Nice one. How much further do you have to go??

 

[Phil Young]

Just a message to anyone that's been advised or currently following a Keto diet:

extracted from here

That's just one of the opinions vs fact battle that I seem to be involved in a lot due to my status in the industry.

Hopefully recent events hasn't persuaded anyone to put themselves through such a diet.

 

[London Headshots]

When you say "opinions vs fact", is your method of presenting fact the one above? Which amounts to nothing more than taking out-of-context quotes about ketogenic diets and using them to push an agenda?


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

"several studies have revealed that not only does a low-carb/high protein diet reduce cholesterol levels, but it also brings down blood pressure in individuals with hypertension. "

"during most of the time that humans have existed, we have been a hunter-gatherer species and have lived primarily in a ketogenic state for extended periods."

"There are many documented cases of human societies today that exist in a long-term ketogenic state. After a 2 to 4 week period of adaptation, human physical endurance is not affected by ketosis, according to studies - meaning that we do not necessarily need a high carbohydrate intake in order to replace depleted glycogen stores for exercise. This makes the argument more compelling that, in fact, we are designed to thrive at certain levels of ketosis."

American Journal Of Clinical Nutrition
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/1/238.full

"mild ketosis is the body's natural adaptation to starvation and is not to be confused with the dangerous ketoacidosis associated with untreated type 1 diabetes.

"A 2-wk carefully controlled inpatient study showed that a ketogenic diet was beneficial for the control of weight and blood glucose concentrations in diabetic patients."

Internet Scientific Publications
http://www.ispub.com/journal/the_in...le/arguments_in_favor_of_ketogenic_diets.html

"However, this review will clarify that low-carbohydrate diets are, from a practical and physiological point of view, a much more effective way of losing weight. It is also argued that such diets provide metabolic advantages, for example: they help to preserve muscle mass, reduce appetite, diminish metabolic efficiency, induce metabolic activation of thermogenesis and favor increased fat loss and even a greater reduction in calories"

"These diets are also healthier because they promote a non-atherogenic lipid profile, lower blood pressure and decrease resistance to insulin with an improvement in blood levels of glucose and insulin"

"Such diets also have neurological and antineoplastic benefits and diet-induced ketosis is not associated with metabolic acidosis, nor do such diets alter kidney, liver or heart functions"

"When a diet is based on an excess of carbohydrates, the body uses them as the main source of energy in place of fat. In contrast, the absence of carbohydrates in the diet accelerates the use of fat."

"Ketosis has been shown to protect against cerebral damage produced by hypoxia"

"The KD is an effective and well-tolerated medical therapy for intractable epilepsy"

"KDs have shown to be efficient in reducing tumor size. Specifically, it has been confirmed that in astrocytomas they can reduce tumor mass by 80% through the inhibition of angiogenesis"

"Contrary to past opinions, KDs also lead to improvements in cardiovascular health. - See more at"

"Low-carbohydrate diets also have beneficial effects in the prevention and treatment of type II diabetes, since they improve the glycemic profile"

"Nevertheless, the KD may produce a state of ketoacidosis, as in the case reported by Chen et al. [169] in a 40-year-old obese white woman. She had morbid obesity, known to be a pathological situation that can be associated with many metabolic problems.. This may be the explanation in the case reported because it is the only case of ketoacidosis reported in the entire bibliography consulted in relation to Ketogenic Diets and weight loss."

"In connection with acidosis, since ketosis from KDs is not linked to acidosis, it would clearly not affect the activities that can increase acidosis such as physical activity. Indeed, some studies indicate that the use of KDs does not imply a limitation in physical activity, the only exception being reduced performance in anaerobic activities such as weight lifting or sprints, and should therefore be borne in mind by certain sports competitors [170]. Some authors go even further, showing that KDs increase performance in aerobic physical activities such as cycling, due to the fact that the organism is better prepared to use fat as a source of energy"

Honestly, Phil. You talk incessantly about me pushing an "agenda" throughout this thread, yet that's exactly what you're doing. You're using the fact that a mod has told us to stop arguing as a way to safely try and repair the damage done to your credibility.

The worst part about this is that POAH is sitting there right now, knowing he could utterly dismantle every single incorrect statement you've made in this thread, but he won't, because that would be, in effect, helping me out - something he would never, ever do. As it stands, I really hope there is nobody on the fence about your credentials after reading this thread.

I genuinely, for the safety of other people, and for the time it will save them, hope that I have done enough to damage your credibility here. There's so many people with a passing interest in training that buy a couple of big books off Amazon (like you've done), never really read any of them, but skim just enough to sound like they might know what they're talking about to people who can't challenge them.

 

[Phil Young]

That's annoying, I thought you couldn't see my messages - alas you can. I will remove you from my ignore list to reply in fairness to me.

When you say "opinions vs fact", is your method of presenting fact the one above? Which amounts to nothing more than taking out-of-context quotes about ketogenic diets and using them to push an agenda?

It is an opinion that a keto diet is a better way than a healthier, safer alternative.


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php



American Journal Of Clinical Nutrition
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/1/238.full

"These diets are also healthier because they promote a non-atherogenic lipid profile, lower blood pressure and decrease resistance to insulin with an improvement in blood levels of glucose and insulin"

As can be done with the right type of carbohydates. A diet with a very low GI load for example, fructose to name another option.

"Such diets also have neurological and antineoplastic benefits and diet-induced ketosis is not associated with metabolic acidosis, nor do such diets alter kidney, liver or heart functions"

But one cannot deny many negative, and unnecessary side effects of such a diet, even if acidosis isn't reached extreme levels.

"When a diet is based on an [B][U][COLOR="Red"]excess[/COLOR][/U][/B] of carbohydrates, the body uses them as the main source of energy in place of fat. In contrast, the absence of carbohydrates in the diet accelerates the use of fat."

There might lie your problem and source of the bee in your bonnet - assuming I am advising and indeed consuming EXCESS which in fact, I am not.

"Ketosis has been shown to protect against cerebral damage produced by hypoxia"

Why are we even talking about hypoxia!?

"The KD is an effective and well-tolerated medical therapy for intractable epilepsy"

...We aren't talking about medical treatments are we.

"KDs have shown to be efficient in reducing tumor size. Specifically, it has been confirmed that in astrocytomas they can reduce tumor mass by 80% through the inhibition of angiogenesis"

Again, we are not talking about medical treatment.

"Contrary to past opinions, KDs also lead to improvements in cardiovascular health. - See more at"

LOL so would exercise if you had the energy to train at efficient levels

"Low-carbohydrate diets also have beneficial effects in the prevention and treatment of type II diabetes, since they improve the glycemic profile"

We're not really talking about just low-carbohydrate though are we...there's a shed load of unnecessary fat, most of which doesn't do anything for us other than get stored.

And yet again...we're not talking about medical treatments!

Honestly, Phil. You talk incessantly about me pushing an "agenda" throughout this thread, yet that's exactly what you're doing. You're using the fact that a mod has told us to stop arguing as a way to safely try and repair the damage done to your credibility.

What has a mod got to do with me putting it out in the world that there is a safer and healthier way to get the same result from what is in most cases, an unnecessary diet?

The worst part about this is that POAH is sitting there right now, knowing he could utterly dismantle every single incorrect statement you've made in this thread, but he won't, because that would be, in effect, helping me out - something he would never, ever do. As it stands, I really hope there is nobody on the fence about your credentials after reading this thread.

POAH is welcome to correct me and I would value it if my knowledge is directly wrong. Why would I not want to better my knowledge from someone that is more knowledgeable than I which clearly, he has a very in-depth understanding of metabolic pathways.

I genuinely, for the safety of other people, and for the time it will save them, hope that I have done enough to damage your credibility here. There's so many people with a passing interest in training that buy a couple of big books off Amazon (like you've done), never really read any of them, but skim just enough to sound like they might know what they're talking about to people who can't challenge them.

Nobody has seen anything in this thread written by me to warrant calling me dangerous - it's ludicrous that you should throw out such preposterous claims.

It's funny how you urge me to give sources, then you claim I am just somebody that has bought a book which anyone can do lol - have you not done the exact same thing!??

I honestly don't know why you're being like this, apart from the fact that you don't approve of me not being 100kg and 3% body fat?

Seriously John - I can't work it out. You can me under-qualified which is wrong. You call me dangerous which I can't even fathom. You have insulted my physical appearance...OK, that's your privilege. You have mocked me because I have made claims of a very good result without doing it the "orthodox" way to you and you are trying to really push a diet plan that is for most people, really unnecessary.

I get that you have a lot of experience in body building and I know that trying to convince one that there is a different method to theirs is insanely difficult...but seriously???

 

[Uncle buck]

Nice one. How much further do you have to go??

About another stone and will see what happens when i get there weather to maintain or keep going

 

[London Headshots]

Phil, I'm going to make this last reply, then I'm going to leave you to it. I'm boring myself at this point, and I know I'm boring everyone else.

My post didn't require a breakdown such as you've done, because it was merely a selection of quotes that show the positive benefits of a low-carb diet. It especially doesn't require a breakdown if all you're going to say is "But we aren't talking about X dude". The quotes merely illustrate that you are incorrect about low carb diets "killing you".

I posted the quotes purely because of the one out-of-context quote you posted. Acidosis isn't a worry for normal individual. Your quote was a poor attempt to discredit a diet which is not dangerous.

The truth about Ketogenic diets is that they are massively beneficial to health, and are also used in medicine to treat a number of near terminal illnesses, and acute, and chronic conditions - just like the quotes suggest.

I'm going to end on this final note:

You've claimed you will die if you don't eat carbs. FALSE.

You've claimed you gained muscle on a 100% carb diet. A lie and BIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

Those were my two main gripes.

The fact that you are apparently a personal trainer, pushing a diet where you can apparently eat all of the foods currently associated with poor health and weight management is neither here nor there to me (basically the holy grail of diets, which doesn't exist). The fact that you claim to have used this diet to get people into "industry leading" condition, yet the only picture you've posted is of this client:

"industry leading" indeed.

Finally, I'm also not even particularly concerned with the fact that you promote a diet that apparently allows people to eat whatever they want, whenever they want, and do "little to no exercise", despite the fact this this, so far, has been your best personal physical condition to date.

(I assume this is OK to post, given that it's basically an advertisement of services and not actually a personal photograph of someone's work.

That's the best shape you've been in. A photograph where you stand to the side and slump your shoulders before pushing your belly out, and a second where you shave your belly, stand up straight, and suck your gut in. Absolutely no marked improvement in body composition whatsoever. It's the classic advertisement you see in bodybuilding magazines. Take a guy, make him stick his gut out, shave his belly, straighen his back, and take another shot. Your bodyfat is literally completely identical from shot to shot. You aren't in any better condition whatever.

I'm also not bothered that the photograph lists a diet which is absolutely nothing like that which you promote in this thread.

Really, what I'm actually concerned about is that someone might follow your advice in this thread, get absolutely nothing from it, and just end up the same weight, or larger.

I really hope they don't.

That's my last post on this subject.

 

[Phil Young]

John, all you've just confirmed a personal dislike towards me and what I do. And that personal dislike has then stemmed into ludicrous remarks.

Anyhow. Just to confirm: you have drawn a lot of conclusions which I've never bothered to correct, like my diet is 100% carbs.

like I said, I'll post my results and you can see for yourself.

To update the thread;

I'm currently 7.8kgs and 8% down from my start point 40 days ago.

 

[POAH]

not eating carbs is a bad idea in the long term

I can't be arsed going through all the posts trying to correct everybody that gets something wrong in biochemistry.

it has nothing to do with who posts it, I'll happily rip anyone to bits if they are wrong


I'm not a hunter gatherer, I shop online at asda

 

[Phil Young]

This thread started off so well... where's everyone's motivation gone???

 

[Cobra]

Lets keep it civil Eh?
Personal attacks or threats have no place here, nor the people that make them.

 

[ZoneV]

Pie & mash is far less hassle.