2 verrrrry basic questions

kitschenalia

kitschenalia

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Yes
But I need to risk looking stoopid, and ask!

I was reading this morning about light metering.... my first stupid q is this: light metering done by the camera is surely only applicable in fully automatic mode or priority modes (shutter speed priority, aperture priority)? Because if you're on fully Manual you control everything yourself - is this right? The thing I was reading about it didn't specify this - perhaps cos it's so bleedin' obvious? Or have I got it ALL wrong!

Second q) - what do you use most - fully manual, or AV/TV priority? I've been using fully M in order to learn, and it IS really helping.... but my number of decent shots is much lower.... Is it considered not "proper" or artistic or somehow cheating to use the semi-automatic settings? (which is what I'm presuming AV/TV are?).

Thanks :-)
 
That's something i've been hinking about also.

Sometimes i would shoot a fully auto shot to get a reading and then switch to manual.

Should i use a seperate light meter instead?
 
To me photography is all about taking the photo. I use Av most of the time and spend my time on composure, and getting it right in camera. There are time when M is useful even so you can use the camera to get a reading, as a starting point but the real test is looking at the histogram and get that as far to the right as possible.
 
the camera meters all the time
you use the A/S/M to manipulate those variants

on my camera on M i get a +/- readout against what i am selecting
so the camera becomes my meter...
 
Have a look here, it may help.

All the metering does is give you a reading of the tone or scene you are measuring. Regardless of what exposure mode you use whether it be Manual, Aperture priority, Shutter priority or Program it is up to the camera user to interpret the reading to then obtain the correct exposure. Read the link above and hopefully all will become clear!
 
kitschenalia said:
I see you have Canon, I can't work out how to get the histogram to show Chaz :-0
Click to expand...

try pressing the "DISP." button to the top of the screen (left of viewfinder), pressing repeatedly should increment it through different displays including 2 versions of histogram.
with histogram you get a reduced image, but if you need the image bigger you should be able to use the zoom buttons (on my 400D they're the 2 thumb buttons at top right of the back of the body , or you can use the scroll wheel next to shutter)
 
kitschenalia said:
But I need to risk looking stoopid, and ask!

I was reading this morning about light metering.... my first stupid q is this: light metering done by the camera is surely only applicable in fully automatic mode or priority modes (shutter speed priority, aperture priority)? Because if you're on fully Manual you control everything yourself - is this right? The thing I was reading about it didn't specify this - perhaps cos it's so bleedin' obvious? Or have I got it ALL wrong!


Thanks :-)
Click to expand...

My quick and dirty explanation . I am simpifying it a bit.

The camera has a inbuilt light-meter, which is always on. Now there are 2 variables which need to be set : Shutter speed and Aperture.

There are 4 ways to set it : Manual , Av or Tv, and automatic

In the manual mode :
For any light condition, if you tell the meter the value of one of the variable ( by setting it in the camera), it will tell you what the other value should be . (For example if you tell it you want to use shutter speed of 1/125, it will tell you to set the aperture, say, at f11. In the manual mode, you could choose to set it at f11, or any other value, overriding the meters recommendation. In a sense, here it acts as your advisor. But you make the final decision

Av or Tv mode:

Here you set the aperture (or the Shutter speed); and the meter tells the camera body to set the right shutter speed ( or the aperture). You can therefore set only one of the variable, the other is selected by the camera. In this case, the camera acts as your boss - allowing you to control only one of the 2 variables ( and sets the other for you).

In Auto mode; the Camera sets both the variable - and acts as your super boss.

Clearly, if the light meter ( and its associated electronics, the computer of sorts) is super intelligent; there should be no difference between the choce you make in manual mode and the Tv or Av mode. Fortunately, the electronics is sufficiently advanced these days; so that under most circumstances, the camera can make a very good choice for you in the Tv or Av mode. Offcourse there are still some situations, when its best to set it manually; but I guess, that needs very high degree of skill and knowledge. Most users are possibly better off using Tv or Av in most circumstances.

There are some, like me, who love to do it manually sometimes; not reallly bacause of any real need, only because its fun; and gives us something to do while faffing around with our 25+ years old film cameras.( and I get it wrong often, simply because of the lack of my skill. But thats part of the fun for me) :lol:
 
You camera will be metering in whichever mode you are in.
You will then use this info to get the effect you are after :
freeze action (SS), DoF (aperture) or ISO (light sensitivity of chip sensor) to get the exposure you're after. (Normally correctly exposed, but you may want to expose for one particular area of pic or want a different overall exposure).

That's why you would use Manual / Aperture / SS to get the result you want.
There is absolutely no reason to use these if the auto mode gives the result you want - just use it.

So experiment and no big deal if you trash can is full. Hopfully you'll get closer to the results you're after with experience and get more and more good shots.

Most of the time I shoot in manual and play around with SS, Aperture and ISO and generally move the settings around a stop or two to see if I can get something a little different / better - unfortunately most end in bin, but what-the-hell ...
now and again you get something you really like.
 
kitschenalia said:
......light metering done by the camera is surely only applicable in fully automatic mode or priority modes (shutter speed priority, aperture priority)? Because if you're on fully Manual you control everything yourself - is this right? The thing I was reading about it didn't specify this - perhaps cos it's so bleedin' obvious? ....
Click to expand...


No ... the cameras light meter can be used in manual mode as well. Only difference is that in M mode you have to interpret the meter information. Select your metering mode as normal (evaluative / centre weighted etc..) then select ISO / F stop / SS combination depending on the effect you are trying to achieve. Use the meter in the viewfinder to balance the three parameters. Remember, you are not always trying to get the meter in the centre.

kitschenalia said:
Second q) - what do you use most - fully manual, or AV/TV priority? ..
Click to expand...


I use Av mostly, as do the majority of SLR photographers.
 
I use all of them!

Auto - when my kid is climbing up my leg but the other one is doing something cute
P - when my kid is only coming towards me so I have time to work out ISO
AV / TV - when I'm working so the only kid there is climbing someone else's leg
M - in the studio

I know (good) wedding photographers that choose to use 'P' on occasions
 
kitschenalia said:
I was reading this morning about light metering.... my first stupid q is this: light metering done by the camera is surely only applicable in fully automatic mode or priority modes (shutter speed priority, aperture priority)? Because if you're on fully Manual you control everything yourself - is this right? The thing I was reading about it didn't specify this - perhaps cos it's so bleedin' obvious? Or have I got it ALL wrong!
Click to expand...

no such thing as a stupid question

in Manual you've got control of both shutter and aperture.
The meter system is still working, but does not take any control of the the shutter or aperture, they are left to you. However you can still use the meter for guidance. Looking through the viewfinder there is a bargraph across the bottom (may also have it on the lcd on yours). With the camera in manual, half press the shutter button to wake it up (and let go) then as you twizzle the thumbwheel for either shutter or aperture adjustment you should see a bright bar move across the bargraph when you are close to the correct exposure, that is the meter reading, the camera thinks it should be in the middle.

The difficulty with the camera meter is which bit of the picture is it actually measuring? There are some settings available to you to dictate this. Its one of the reasons the better camera bodies are better, they use more reading positions and more processing to get a better answer, but they are still just guessing.
The review of the 500D I have been using to check features against my 400D shows the metering modes and how they are weighted here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos500d/page11.asp have a look at the pretty 3d graphs halfway down the page.
I suspect the more expensive cameras also get selectable metering on the chosen focus points. As far as I know the base x00D cameras use the focus point for flash metering control when using TTL flash but focus point metering is disabled during non-flash operation.



oh the histogram select using the DISP button has to be done when in the review mode or during the couple of secs when the shot is displayed after taking, once its selected it remains the default display setting for review until another DISP mode is selected
 
kitschenalia said:
Second q) - what do you use most - fully manual, or AV/TV priority? I've been using fully M in order to learn, and it IS really helping.... but my number of decent shots is much lower.... Is it considered not "proper" or artistic or somehow cheating to use the semi-automatic settings? (which is what I'm presuming AV/TV are?).
Click to expand...

It's in no way considered cheating to use Tv or Av modes and as said above there are a lot of people that mainly use Av, including myself. The reasons are;

I usually don't care what the SS is, as long as it's fast enough to avoid blurring (1/60 ish). If it does drop below 1/60 I adjust the ISO. If I'm shooting something where SS is more important (motor sport) then I would switch to Tv (not manual).

Deciding the DoF I want is usually more important than deciding the SS.

The main reason though, for shooting in Av (or Tv for that matter) over manual, is that if you are taking a lot of shots and the light is changing (which it always is!) then you don't have to think about re-metering all the time. You just set the parameters you want and fire away. The camera will usually expose properly, even in changing light conditions, leaving you to think about composition!

IMO, manual mode is best used in a studio or when you're just setting up to get ONE shot.

Knowing how to use your tools to their best effect isn't cheating!
 
jontucker said:
IMO, manual mode is best used in a studio or when you're just setting up to get ONE shot.
Click to expand...

that all depends where you are shooting. I was trying to catch some birds against the bright sky yesterday so I had to set the exposure manually as even dialling in 2 stops of over exposure still left the birds vastly under exposed. Metering against the ground gave me the right exposure for the birds.
 
Never known a canon be accurate on program. Who the hell would use program..?????

I Have had many Canons and have tested them when first bought and found on 'P' always at least 1/2 stop under 90% manaul for most jobs. Even motor sport I shot manual. I never ever rely on the camera metering system. I would never be with out my Light meter.
Only time I would use shutter Priority would be with sunny/cloudy weather where it keeps changing every minute.
 
TheMatt/Wookie, thank you, I found the histogram! Wookie, thanks, I'll try getting the bar graph to come up so I can tweak the exposure...

ujjwaldey, thanks for your explanation, I think I got it now, whoop whoop!

Rockshifter, thanks! I think I'm actually sending MORE to the trashcan now - but this may be me getting a better eye (I hope so) rather than my photography getting even more crap!!

Chaz, will try that method also :-)

Will that's actually quite good to know, as I seem to prefer using AV...

Rudesing, that little breakdown was v useful, thanks! Btw I love the cute Christmas avator...

jontucker, thanks for explanation, I'm starting to see why it makes sense to use AV over manual now :-) Maybe I'll go back to getting more nice shots (I've been binning a lot more since I put it to manual - aha, maybe this is also why!)

Mike Jackson, that sounds advanced somewhat :-) I was reading in the mag about this using a mid tone to meter... I have so much to learn.

Darly (and others) dare I admit I don't actually know what the P function is :-0
 
Darly (and others) dare I admit I don't actually know what the P function is :-0
Click to expand...

P is for PROFFESSIONAL, thought everyone knew that!!!;)
 
kitschenalia said:
Mike Jackson, that sounds advanced somewhat :-) I was reading in the mag about this using a mid tone to meter... I have so much to learn.

:-0
Click to expand...


It's not that difficult. Just set the aperture and ISO to the settings you want and point the camera towards whatever you are metering off. Then adjust the shutter speed until the exposure reads correctly on the inbuilt meter. If the shutter speed ends up too slow try upping the ISO. The ground was roughly the same colour as the birds so I used that. Unfortunately the pictures came out correctly exposed but blurry because I had accidentally turned off the IS. :bang:
 
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